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Guild Battlegrounds Feedback

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DeletedUser40350

The bottom line is this game has changed drastically, I don't know how the game is doing in other countries, but on the United States version the game has slowly been dying due to players tiring of playing night after night many for 5-7 years. If you want to be a top guild on most servers, GVG is going to require a huge time commitment and most people can't commit to playing 7 days a week for hours a day.

I realize this game was a huge cash cow for Inno.. "was", the problem is it seems these days almost everything that gets added is more features that will almost force the player to pay to play.
#3 - Money - Inno has made it impossible to play and be competitive without spending tons of money.

I weeded out most of the stuff I'm not replying to here. Yes, the game has evolved over the years..in which in my opinion, was in a positive direction as far as overall content and interest level/things to do. Our guild on my main world has had over 900 #1 days (currently been #1 for over a year), and for the most part we only need to dedicate about 10 to 15 mins into GvG day to day, which isn't a huge time commitment. Some are dedicated to be here everyday, some are more semi-casual. Some choose to hang around and chit chat afterwards, and do many other game mechanics throughout the day...but to be a top guild in a sense of actually battling GvG, doesn't generally require a lot of time. Sure, there are times where map watching is helpful, and sometimes preventative to save tiles from being lost...but most guilds on top, do enough damage and blocks to protect what they own within 15 mins of recalc daily to stay on top.
I am actually one that up until the last two events, have spent very little on this game, and was #1 player on my main world before doing so. You can rise in ranks without buying diamonds, it just takes a while to get there, and requires a lot of thought on your personal development and choice of paths to get there. I had a plan on what i wanted/needed to do, over a year in advance before i finally got to where things started moving quickly. I definitely would not downplay the idea of people choosing to buy diamonds though, as that's what helps developers keep this game running. There are many veteran players out there that will likely help you, on suggestions on how to better your city development if you ask them in the game.
 

DeletedUser30312

I see the GvG crowd has turned out in large numbers again. But the announcement has stated some pretty hard numbers here: not even 5% of the playerbase is involved in GvG. That is low, even lower than I expected which was about 10% or less. But then there are those thousands and thousands of players at the bottom of the variouis worlds who I think try FoE for a short bit, don't like it, and never return. In any case it shows that the really hardcore GvG players are a tiny if vocal minority. A minority that apparently populates an echo chamber as well, since they think they're the only active players and active spenders since everyone they talk to is into GvG. Less than 5% makes me question just how much revenue Inno is getting from these players, since it's not too hard to imagine mobile whales plunking down money on the event formats we've seen in the last 2 years or so. I also see few people have read the initial post Panacea made either. Particularly the part about how adding GvG to mobile has too many technical issues to be feasible (something Inno's said multiple times before BTW), and that there are no plans to eliminate GvG.

Is the code difficult to understand? Maybe. Coding can be kind of ideosyncratic, so there could be stuff in there that's hard to figure out. Especially if that coding came from Anwar, can't exactly ask him how that stuff works, can they?

The complexity is definitely an issue. In order to fight, you're going to need a lot of units, which is most likely going to come from an Alcatraz. Then it helps to have attack boosting GBs to increase the damage you do while lowering your losses. That's already a big investment for a new player. Then GvG guilds like to have members who have GBs that boost GvG performance like the St. Basil's Cathedral, Deal Castle, and Observatory. So it takes a bit to build a city that can effectively participate in GvG. Or you go into goods farming for the guild, but that takes a lot of effort for little personal gain.

What strategy is involved in hitting the auto button over and over again? There may be some strategy invovled in deciding what sectors to take, but from what I see, GvG play is getting pretty stagnant. Case in point: I took a few sectors on one of the maps a little over a month ago. Most of those were taken back by the guild that had them originally, but one of the sectors, which was on the landing zone no less, and to which I added no defending armies, stayed in our hands until about 4 days ago from what I can tell. If that's not stagnant I don't know what is. GvG is pretty much the same dozen or so guilds parked on maps moving less than the Western Front in WWI, with some of the guilds holding down territory used for point farming. I don't pay a lot of attention to guild politics, but my understanding that at least on Jaims, GvG right now is mostly two different groups of guilds, the first group involving maybe 6-10 guilds in an informal alliance holding down most of the maps which go nowhere, with the other side being a few guilds who object to this trying to make a dent in said alliance and not really getting anywhere with it. There's nothing dynamic or exciting about it. Guilds shouldn't be able to lock down the maps like they do, and I doubt the point farming is really in the spirit of GvG's original aims. And then there's the ghosting crap.

Lack of mobile play is definitely an issue, for a while there guilds invovled in GvG didn't want mobile players who couldn't participate, and I think there's still a bit of that. But that seems to be waning a bit, probably given how much FoE is growing in mobile, GvG simply is losing its relevance. The guild I'm currently involved in is a core of mobile players who wanted to engage in strong GE competition since they couldn't build the guild up through GvG. What GvG we do is basically me and one or two other players sniping sectors here and there when we feel like it. I don't feel any great enthusiasm for it.

While it's good to see that Inno is looking to shore up problems with the code to make things more stable, I think that the time may come to retire GvG entirely. If mobile GvG is off the table, and mobile is where the game is growing, then cutting a feature with waning participation makes sense. That will depend on how exactly this battleground feature fares though. I think Inno isn't planning to remove GvG for now to see what sort of reception battlegrounds will get, and if battlegrounds can replace GvG maybe they'll remove it. If battlegrounds fails, well, then they'll have to go back to GvG to see what to do with it.

I don't know how well battlegrounds will work. For one, I was looking forward to Settlements, but found them to be disappointing. So I don't know if this will disappoint me as well. On the surface, it looks like the fight/negotiate structure from GE will be combined with some GvG elements here, but until I actually use the feature, I can't really judge it. Avoiding the problem with everyone jumping on GvG at recalc and slowing down the servers is something that should definitely be avoided here.

I'm also wondering about how guilds will be matched up in these leagues. GE just matches things up by the number of people who are in a guild, but that might not be adequate here. I think level will have to be taken into account, since a top 10 guild matched up with a bunch of weaker guilds can probably just roll all over them. Of course, experienced players with powerful cities can make a new guild and stomp over the little guys easily even if things are matched with guild level, but if those new powerful guilds can quickly climb up a ranking ladder to where they'll face challenges worthy of them, maybe it won't be too bad.

Attrition seems like a way avoid the problem that GvG has with no limits, people pretty much keep fighting until they run out of units. That ties into another problem with GvG, how the active GvG players can easily dominate the PvP towers while non-GvG players are limited to only their neighbors once a day, and up to 64 GE fights a week, assuming the guild opens the whole GE map. The province buildings look like they could address the current GvG problem of how post-FE goods aren't needed much by a guild, though there's the potential problem of guilds with lots of big Arcs being able to dominate things here.
 

DeletedUser11323

As I read everybody's comments, I thought about different scenario, how Battle Grounds could work. This is just a very quick thought without any deep analysis, so some suggestions may be not suitable, but I'm trying here to show, how GvG could be improved and implemented with GE features in Battle Grounds proposition:
1. Each guild starts at the edge of the battleground map with a province, which cannot be taken from them
2. To take a province, every guild member can click on an eligible province and either perform a fight or a negotiation from the player's era.
3. Fights are debuffed with Attrition, negotiations are debuffed with inflation.

When attacking NPC province:
4. Winning fight/negotiation will provide advancements.
5. Certain number of advancements will gain control over the province.

6. When controling the province, owners will buy defending army for the provice:
a. by donating certain number of army units. For instance, donating 5 units will buy 1 unit for the defence;
b. by donating resources.
7. Defending units can be bought only from certain type, for instance, 5 Heavy units, 10 fast units, 15 Artillery units, etc. For instance, if player donates 5 Ronin bots, then he will buy 1-5 heavy units (depending on the ratio, if it's used). So if attacker is from Colonial age, he will face Colonial age heavy unit, Future age - Future age heavy unit, etc.

When attacking Player province:
8. When enemy attacks province, random army is generated from the bought units. So sometimes attacker may win, sometimes may loose, if random army is not suitable for attacker.
9. When enemy negotiates, he may weaken defending units.
10. Defending guild may use negotiations on it's own teritories to heal their defending units.

8-10 steps provide possibility for peaceful players to participate, that is "fight" in a battle. At the same time defenders can negotiate too. Also these steps allow to donate defending units as it is currently implemented in GvG, and also allows to attack. So figters and negotiators all can participate.

11. When controlling a province, a province should generate "Control" points at certain time intervals. I think the best way would be 1 minute interval. For instance, one province generates one "Control" point every minute.
12. The guild with most control points would win Battle Grounds.

11 step assures that the battle will happen any time and doesn't require many players to be online at the same time. In such scenario there's no need to worry about the End of the countdown, when most battles happen in current GvG. Whenever players are online, they can attack/negotiate.

I'm sure this scenario can be improved, but some ideas mentioned here could be implemented to allow better Battle Grounds experience and avoid some boredom and repeatedness as it exists currently in GE.
 

DeletedUser40350

Suggestions :

Get rid of AA altogether. It's dominated by very few and not fair to many other players. It's the main reason I no longer play GvG.

.

I disagree on getting rid of AA altogether. I do however think all maps across the board should have equal tile values...to where AA specifically won't be a dealbreaker on guild rank whether people choose to spend a lot of time on that map or not. I like the idea that we have AA, so we have something to spend our millions of medals on.
 

DeletedUser40360

there are some of us. only about 5% as you have said. who really like GVG. i for one would rather you make it mobile. seems you are trying to split up the GVG people. into worrying about yet something else. GVG what was this game was about when you first started it. that is waht made it different from a builder game. which were all over the place at the time. make what you intended the game to be, more accessible to everyone. just my opinion
 

DeletedUser31397

Attrition seems like a way avoid the problem that GvG has with no limits, people pretty much keep fighting until they run out of units. That ties into another problem with GvG, how the active GvG players can easily dominate the PvP towers while non-GvG players are limited to only their neighbors once a day, and up to 64 GE fights a week, assuming the guild opens the whole GE map. The province buildings look like they could address the current GvG problem of how post-FE goods aren't needed much by a guild, though there's the potential problem of guilds with lots of big Arcs being able to dominate things here.

Sounds like Alcatraz will be somewhat irrelevant for GBG if I'm understanding attrition correctly.
 

DeletedUser30962

Please leave your feedback here in this thread and we'll look into your ideas and opinions. We'll collect feedback for the next two weeks (until 3rd June 2019), integrate feedback into the concept and share an update within 3 weeks (by 10th June 2019). We will also hold a live Q&A on Facebook & Instagram on the 22nd May 2019 at 17:00 CEST (15:00 UTC). We hope you understand the reasons for this step and look forward to your feedback. Forge of Empires is played by millions of amazing players and together, we will make it even better!

Sincerely yours,

Your Forge of Empires Team

GVG is one of my most favorite parts of the game, BUT the timing is horrible, the lagging is horrible, you need to do away with the recalc timing so there is not such a concentrated cluster on the map, whether each map gets its on reset time, or maybe just every 8 hours or something like that the shields go away, the fact you can't get on from Mobile is ridiculous which is why more people don't play! I had played another mobile game, and it was very accessible via mobile, we could even see the other fighters troops they were using when they attacked us in the logs which i might add were real logs not like yours, sometimes there, sometimes not and only a small limited number, we used to be able to do our alliance attacks at times we dictated not the game so not everyone was clustered at the same time, this I believe would relieve a lot of the lag issues you have now. adding more busy work I personally don't see as the answer, there are too many busy work things as it is, trying to fit in with a lot of us and busy work lives the game is to be fun and on our time, not dictated where I need to rearrange my whole life to play a game... a big issue imo as well. GVG needs to be mobile, just revise the times, as said different times for each map or possibly just 8 hour shields instead of the 24 hours shields would break it up as well, as far as the recalc take an average over the past 24 hours for rankings if so need be from what was held, time period held....I'm not a fan of adding more crap to worry about doing, just fix what is already there.
 

Kranyar the Mysterious

Well-Known Member
Sorry, while I love GvG and GE both, I am just not feeling this new game system at all. Especially since it won't replace GvG.

I would much rather see a single player, age specific, Battle Royale system put into play where players can progress up the ladder as high as they can get by battling other players chosen at random from within a narrow grouping of players (ranked within 50 to 100? players up or down of current position) using the player's current defensive city army and all bonuses. Instead of using the neighborhood AI, the campaign map AI could be used.

Have the special building provide both a guild bonus and the currency needed to be able to play this mini-game or something. This way there is a battle game available separate from having to deal within your guild, but the guild still benefits. This also allows people to battle other people who want to battle, not whiny crybaby neighbors. Not everyone gets leader rights, especially if a guild doesn't want to do GvG, so players who want to play this game may not be allowed by guild leaders if the leaders don't want the guild doing GvG.
 

DeletedUser40350

I hope whom ever implements this had nothing to do with the AA design. The removal of goods and using only medals??? The guild has 100s of millions and would have many more except at 99999 at a time to donate to the guild stops many from bothering. The poinr being there is ZERO cost to a seige. Allowing seige with only spearmen? When the original designs for sector strength 0 to 75% and we were starting out the HQ defense was something to consider most people had % boost of under 90%. I'm running 450/230 + and I doubt I'm up to average. No one cares about the sector boost. The ripple effect of that and no goods means the OBS is useless (above FE), Arc value halved, Atomium useless. What were you people thinking? Your comment about number of people playing being low. Is that driven by complexity, crap design or that most of the action is at reset, or requires a very fast connection?

As far as medal donations, on mobile currently you can donate millions if you wish all in one click. I'm not sure why you can only donate 99999 on PC, but if you get onto mobile you can make a bulk donations of more without a problem. I definitely agree that the current 75% HQ bonus is not enough for high eras anymore. Developers should at least consider raising the HQ bonus on higher eras, because most people in high eras don't blink an eye at a 75% tile defense bothering them. As far as Obs, Atomium and such being useless...i made a few suggestions on post #94 that I hope they will consider, to make them more relevant.
 

DeletedUser8394

GvG definitely needs an improvement and some mechanics changed to keep it viable. It would be nice if you worked on this before rolling out yet another new feature.

That being said, I am in favor of the new aspect of GBG. I think rolling it out in Alpha format and doing your development with a community of experienced FOE players might be a more viable option rather than a couple of screen shots and text on forum posts with the way you think it out to run. Roll it out how FOE developers think they want it to be and let the community mold it for you. Once the final concept is hammered out, roll it into Beta for bug testing.
 

Peltast

New Member
Let me see if I understood all this...

You want to offer a new feature (Guild Battlegrounds) that will not be as unappealing as GvG and with a higher level of participation. Fine, good idea, so far.

The next logical step towards that goal, would be to follow the example of GE (a quite successful feature of the game) and NOT of GvG - and I think you are not doing that.

In my opinion, GE is so successful because it is simple enough to understand the mechanics and to form a strategy AND because there is no real need for a guild's members to coordinate with eachother in order to come to a positive result for the guild and for the players.

As far as I have understood from your description of Guild Battlegrounds, the two, aforementioned, positive traits of GE are absent from this new feature you are basing your hopes on. Infact, you are doing the exact opposite.

I find Guild Battlegrounds to be unnecessarily complicated and overly depended on guildmates' coordination.

If I were you, I would rethink the whole thing.
 
in truth the new option sounds like a merge between Guild Expeditions and chinese checkers - only the goal is to stay in the middle instead of moving to the other side. Perhaps you can review the rules for chinese checkers and update your ideas ... if that's what u r getting ur ideas from.
o_O
 

*pow*

New Member
I don't think they should get rid of GvG at all, and according to their post, they aren't. They're working on "fixing" it and adding a new feature. My fear is they are publicly justifying the possible future removal of GvG based on statistics I'm not sure are accurate. I think their 5% statistic is way off.

To be fair, GvG was called out in their post, yet they haven't polled or asked anyone what they think about GvG in the process, which is why you're seeing so many people leaving feedback and concerns related to GvG and not their new concept/WIP feature.

From a product perspective, it makes sense to abandon a feature that isn't generating the expected ROI. But you also have no idea how the new concept/feature will be received. From the looks of this thread, not so well. So test it with the community as most games do. The stats on GvG currently are skewed and would definitely improve if you fixed the current issues. If the original version is too complex, write new code for v2 like you would for this new concept.

Ideas to make GvG more appealing:
  • Create a reward system beyond prestige and support pool
  • Incentivize play with individual rewards
  • Weekly reset for prizes based on participation at an individual level (like GE)
  • Implement attrition on land top guilds hold for an extended period of time forcing them to release sectors
  • Create more landing zones so any guild can be reachable from anywhere on the map

As far as the new feature, Guild Battlegrounds, I'm not sure there's enough info there to provide any real feedback. But it definitely feels like a v2 of GE without anything that makes GvG appealing. It's not lost on me that these are 2 different features, but they're trying to "fix" GvG in the process of implementing a new feature.

What would be great, is a v2 of GvG that addressed the concerns currently in-game, was available on mobile, but with additional, fleshed out features. Best of both worlds.
 

DeletedUser40350

GVG is broken beyond repair, it requires guilds to have several players on PCs at 8:00PM EST and then they just spend their limitless resources auto fighting battles with their crazy attack bonuses to dominate the maps, while all the new guilds and players can do little or nothing about it. Not fun. Since most new players will be on mobile, creating a new guild fighting feature would be great, make it a turn based feature where a seige takes time to set up.

Too many current maps have bottlenecks making it easy to hold and block off large sections. Remove the landing zones and allow all edge sectors to be seiged, which will force max guilds to defend more sectors and change that game style. I could go on, but will wait to get more info on new Battleground feature

You don't need a "crazy attack bonus" to be successful in GvG. Yes, you do need a fair amount of playerbase to be online at the same time at recalc to take tiles, but the current game mechanics deem that the most defense a tile will have is 75%, which is easily attackable for most players. The bottlenecks and such are used as strategic moves to where your land isn't so easily open to everyone all the time. That's what makes GvG fun, is planning out such things. If a guild has a lot of land through a bottleneck area, focus all your resources to that area and punch through and fan out. If a guild is too strong for you to do that, then work on improving your guild until you are ready to do so...and just settle for smaller sections on the map in the meantime. Making all edge sectors a landing zone, just takes more strategy out of GvG, and will influence more ghost guilds to arise to cheese their way into taking bigger guilds down easier versus earning it in a more legitimate fashion.
 

DeletedUser35470

As neat looking and sounding as the new feature is - it is only GE with a map to fight over.

GVG is the single most effective sink in the game for goods, medals, and troops that fosters rivalry and inter-guild communications. A guild is rewarded for their spending efforts with huge gains in guild power each day. GE is a pale echo of this that only encourages inner-guild communication for participation and even with high participation in a guild with many high age players provides a small amount of guild power a week that almost compares to one day of GvG.

Adding a GE+GVG hybrid while not removing either of the existing systems and likely leaving GVG as the best way to level a guild is only adding another system to tax players both in time and resources.

In my opinion GvG should be improved, modified, and brought to mobile, not left as-is and a third guild competition solution added.
In reading the preceding comments I think the following needs to be addressed in any guild versus guild system:
1) Guild Treasury sink for newer age goods, greater than FE, outside of GE.
2) Ability to coordinate with allies and somewhat choose rivals in an instanced GvG/Guild Battlegrounds not just tier against tier.
3) Keep in mind a lot of your players login a time or two a day to spend 15-40 minutes, then logout. That player is not going to want to be told they need to contribute even more time every day to keep up with yet another guild and individual reward system. They already find GE level 1 enough of a contribution a week.

Thanks for asking for feedback, I do hope adding yet another system is not the final answer.
 

DeletedUser23634

ive been playing for years mobile players cant gvg and thats alot of your newbees we need maps to fight on for all the ages if you dont now how to do gvg then learn like we all did gvg is why ive played for years once you learn how to do it its a blast you wont to sit around and play ge then there is farmville for you you keep adding more stupid crap to this game like ge that viking stuff etc fix what you have and stop detroying a great gamei joined a war game not planting tomatos
 

saknika

Active Member
..not even 5% of the playerbase is involved in GvG. That is low, even lower than I expected which was about 10% or less...

I stated it in my own post, but the only thing I don't like about this statistic is we don't know the source data, the sampling. Is it ALL of FoE, including the inactive players and mobile players who cannot access GvG? Or is is just the active, PC players who can access GvG? Or something else entirely? Depending on the sampling size and demographic you can manipulate the statistic to be what you want, and without telling your audience what your sample size and demographic was, you could mislead them.

It's unfair to include in this statistic those that cannot even try GvG because they're mobile only, since if GvG were available to mobile players they might love it and that percentage might sky rocket. We have no way of knowing for sure. Which then creates this sort of extra animosity between those who love GvG, and those who don't. And that's no fun.
 

DeletedUser40361

1. Regarding attrition, remember that there are heavy goods producers as well. Also, I can easily give tons of lower age goods to my active lower age members so they can negotiate. Attrition should increase the difficulty for both fighting and negotiating. You can have one attrition applies for both or separate attrition for each but there should be something to limit it.

2. Speed seems to be important, we have auto-battle for fighters. How about auto- negotiate? Or any other way that makes the field even between fighters and negotiators
.
3. Revealing the names of the competing guilds at the end of each cycle instead of the beginning: This could eliminate collaborating between GvG allies or guilds with the same players in different worlds. If there are enough constraints in the design to eliminate the collaboration between guilds, it may not be needed.

4. If I understand correctly, this is going to be something like GvG. You have to be online at a certain time and even more than once per day. This is going to be a big limitation for it. We miss it for 10 minutes, we lose. I think something like GE could be more helpful, that you have a certain time to finish it and whoever progress more is the winner for that part. Time could be used for a tie-breaker. The progress of the enemy should be hidden so you don't know which province to fight.
 

IngeJones

Active Member
They could have done it so that instead of the shields going away at a set time, the time is individual per tile depending on... factors related to the guild who holds them
 

DeletedUser23634

The PC only GVG part of the game is used by only 5% of the players! Enough said. GVG is broken beyond repair, it requires guilds to have several players on PCs at 8:00PM EST and then they just spend their limitless resources auto fighting battles with their crazy attack bonuses to dominate the maps, while all the new guilds and players can do little or nothing about it. Not fun. Since most new players will be on mobile, creating a new guild fighting feature would be great, make it a turn based feature where a seige takes time to set up. Players have a few minutes to lend their troops for the battle(s) and then the defenders get a message that their sector is being seiged and they have a few minutes to log in to defend. So guilds can only take one sector at a time, it leaves the field open for others to attack and will prevent max guilds from blocking off the maps.

Too many current maps have bottlenecks making it easy to hold and block off large sections. Remove the landing zones and allow all edge sectors to be seiged, which will force max guilds to defend more sectors and change that game style. I could go on, but will wait to get more info on new Battleground feature
then build up you attack and def better yourself and go kick some ass lol
 
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