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Guild Battlegrounds Feedback

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DeletedUser29726

Inno already has a war game - Grepolis. As a war game, it is much more engaging than FoE.

While never having played it, any free to play game with such a short cycle is going to look very very pay to win (what else would you pay for when a server ends when someone's won). Forge of Empires being persistent you can catch up on over time and become a top player by putting in the time and building your city up with a coherent strategy (though I miss when a coherent strategy meant more than collect event buildings, level Arc).

And if it weren't for having some sort of sense of competition i would've quit FoE years ago - there's a reason I've never made it past the 2nd age in elvenar (other than the fact they keep deleting my city in the 2nd age when i take a break from it :p)
 

DeletedUser38934

Keep the Original GvG the way it is. There are fighters in non-GvG guilds and i believe this is what your trying to address.

1. Have a bracketed 1v1 2v2 etc.. type system that people can que in to solo or with friends/guildmates. Have the map size and ARMY size differ with the number of people playing. For example the 1v1 map would be much smaller, and have a smaller army then the 8v8 map and therefore much easier to see and use on a mobile. Limit matches to 10 per day per team/player.

2. There can be a GvG team section(which rewards guild and indiv) as well as a section for individuals (which rewards only individuals not the guild)

3. All participants will start with the same army types and bonuses and only through earning battle points can a player can upgrade their army. OR Use the power of the city's great buildings and Keep the fighters in their own age/era bracket.

4. Have people matched up by a battle ranking system, not at random. For example, one team/person is 3-15 and holds a ranking of 92 total battle points. Another player is 15-0 and holds 325 battle points these players shouldn't be matched together immediately if a more worthy opponent is waiting in que. Points can not only be gained but Also lost, (taking in to account the point differential) the more points can be earned / lost from each battle. If team X with 450 points fights a team Y with 23 ranking points team x will gain very little with a win, but lose a lot if they lose. Essentially a team will earn more battle points when they fight and win against stronger teams.

5. Reward system should be a user choose-able and include: Army strength upgrades, Forge points, Goods, Potions(that can only be used in PvP, and cosmetic items for the army itself, which may or may not provide bonuses. Also with enough battle points a player can earn something nice and upgrade-able for their city.

These are just a few bullet points to try to explain a very complicated system, but from the standpoint of fairness and fun i think this will be better then the current system, and will attract mobile users.
 
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Liberty

Active Member
Not even close. Two main reasons more people don't fight in GvG are:
1. Mobile players can't.
2. Maps are dominated by large established guilds to the virtual exclusion of newer or smaller guilds.
Has nothing to do with understanding the "mysteries" of GvG.

You are wrong. It's just an excuse to say that smaller guilds cannot be successful at GvG. They can. Again, I am a member of a 2 person guild that just kicked a 65 person guild off the map and sit now where they sat just a few days ago.

It's a cop out to say they can't be successful. They can. But, it takes effort, a lot of work on their cities and some strategy.

New players, yeah, that's true. But, they can't because they are weak and don't yet know what they are doing.
 
Little guilds DO NOT stand a chance in GvG because they are always limited to having to attack landing zones. Just to get wiped out the next day because they are stuck and limited to where they can attack.

I am a single warrior in a guild with less than 20 total in 1 of my worlds. By myself in less than 3 weeks I took my little new guild past lvl 20 and now am working on lvl 35 in just a few months. How? because I KNOW HOW TO MAKE GUILD LEVELING POWER. It's not in "HOLDING" sectors from day to day and keeping others away, guarding and map watching forever just in case...
it's by taking up to 10 sectors on a map and holding them until reset then releasing and doing it again elsewhere. It's GvG farming in a way that ANY person can do - giving lots of leveling power for wee little guilds while destroying some of the biggest players/ guilds on any map. Change your expectations, change your game style, release the inner beast and grab some sectors for a day. Come PLAY with me. Roam the maps and grab some sectors, get the power that's calculated at reset then release, get ur goods back and start again somewhere else.
 

DeletedUser16923

This sounds a lot like SuperGE. The fun part of GvG is that you are up against other players in other guilds personally. I have lots of guild members that are interested in GvG but are only mobile. Really wish there was a way to migrate that to mobile.
 

DeletedUser10789

Address the cheating. Stop pretending it's not happening, stop the gaslighting with staff members telling people "Not everything is what it seems" or this turns into another feature that drives more paying customers straight to your competitors.

This is very true. There are many players who use Macro Scripts and I have personally see 1 guild break a siege in less than 10 seconds with 1 fighter and players placing sieges with Macro Scripts as well. I even heard tale of the person who posted how to use these Scripts on you tube was banned from the game just for doing just that, making and using scripts. I will not even get into the fact of people who use multiple accounts in the same world or ALTS.

I believe, my humble opinion, the game tolerates this type of behavior due to these players may spend money on the game. I have said before, FAIR IS FAIR. The Company states on their own webpage that there mission is for "Fair Play", I guess they define "Fair Play" as the play they deem fair to the company or not. Just remember about support.....Support is basically made up of players who donate their time in answering player tickets in exchange for benefits. Does anyone really think these players, 1. Don't know other players in the game. 2. Are not in guilds in other worlds that they do not Mod on. 3. Really want to report fellow players for said conduct that is wrong.

I personally find nothing good about having players police other players. I think if you live in the US, you will all know what that is and means. It's like the players in baseball making the rules and calling balls and strikes. I just don't see Support doing much on this GodofAcid, sadly enough. The appeal of Money to them is more important than cracking down on rules.
 

DeletedUser29726

Keep the Original GvG the way it is. There are fighters in non-GvG guilds and i believe this is what your trying to address.

1. Have a bracketed 1v1 2v2 etc.. type system that people can que in to solo or with friends/guildmates. Have the map size and ARMY size differ with the number of people playing. For example the 1v1 map would be much smaller, and have a smaller army then the 8v8 map and therefore much easier to see and use on a mobile. Limit matches to 10 per day per team/player.

2. There can be a GvG team section(which rewards guild and indiv) as well as a section for individuals (which rewards only individuals not the guild)

3. All participants will start with the same army types and bonuses and only through earning battle points can a player can upgrade their army.

4. Have people matched up by a battle ranking system, not at random. For example, one team/person is 3-15 and holds a ranking of 92 total battle points. Another player is 15-0 and holds 325 battle points these players shouldn't be matched together immediately if a more worthy opponent is waiting in que. Points can not only be gained but Also lost, (taking in to account the point differential) the more points can be earned / lost from each battle. If team X with 450 points fights a team Y with 23 ranking points team x will gain very little with a win, but lose a lot if they lose. Essentially a team will earn more battle points when they fight and win against stronger teams.

5. Reward system should be a user choose-able and include: Army strength upgrades, Forge points, Goods, Potions(that can only be used in PvP, and cosmetic items for the army itself, which may or may not provide bonuses. Also with enough battle points a player can earn something nice and upgrade-able for their city.

These are just a few bullet points to try to explain a very complicated system, but from the standpoint of fairness and fun i think this will be better then the current system, and will attract mobile users.

The main issue I see with this is the 'why did I bother even building my city' of it all. People spend time upgrading their bonuses to use them, not for them to be irrelevant to the part of the game that in theory would revolve around them. It sounds like you want "settlements-GvG" where it's a stupid little sidegame that you can't improve on with your main city but that gives rewards for your main city. which you care about because... ? While I understand in this world of extreme GBs making an isolated world they can't impact has a certain amount of appeal to it in order to avoid the balancing difficulties over the wide gulf between the haves and have nots, it is still very important that your city still matters for something.
 

DeletedUser26560

First thing that strikes me is that you don't understand why players do not do GVG. Because THEY DO NOT WANT TO PLAY PVP in FOE.
I think there is far to much PVP in today's games. Instead why don't you focus on the very improvements that you continually will not do.
Expand the city map area so cities can be focused on player's design rather than gaining resources and higher support structures. Add non static elements toward making it fully animated like some other game structures do already. This should keep you busy for a long while instead of trying to remake an antiquated structure with varying mechanics that only a few will be interested in doing. As an example I hate throwing away nice looking building only because they do not pump out enough for the higher city ages. what city has one or two types of industry? Do you think Blacksmithing does not carry into the future?
if you think that then you do not know human nature to well.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
According to industry sources, InnoGames revenue from the mobile sector increased 37% last year. In the US market, mobile accounts for 50% of earnings.
Which means the NON-MOBILE accounts for the other 50% of earnings.
This is incorrect. It means that the remaining 50% of FoE's revenues are made up of ALL the non-US players and the Non-mobile US players. That leaves US PC players just a fraction of the total, US GvG players, a fraction of a fraction, or about 5% of the user base.
 

DeletedUser26263

I do not know where to begin with this -- but let's take a stab at it one item at a time.

1. I am thrilled to see Innogames paying any attention at all to GvG. This has been a big missing piece of the equation for a long time. So thank you for looking into doing something - ANYTHING - to this part of the game.

2. Reading between the lines, it is clear the basic problem Innogames faces is coding. This is why we have not had GvG and chat on mobile to this point - I am certain. What most people do not recognize is that making various features portable to many different platforms (iPad, Android, multiple operating systems) is not as simple as it seems. (I was a computer programmer for a time). So I understand the difficulty involved and again -- I applaud the effort.

3. The core issue I see here is that Inno is burying its head in the sand about one basic thing -- the diamond buyers of this game seem to fall into two groups. One group is the new people they push to entice in with these events and other "shiny objects" which cause them to buy diamonds. They do so and often drop the game -- this is a transitory group. The other are older players,many of whom are married to GvG, therefore they buy consistently and tend to be more loyal. Innogames is a for-profit company and they need both of these groups -- so I am not surprised at the big bold RED statement "we have no plans to kill GvG". Of course you don't. A big piece of your revenue base is there ("credit card bullies", etc). So again, I applaud your decision. GOOD. However "Less than 5% of players use GvG" is not a cause -- it is an effect. Lack of mobile access, limited audience making top guilds unbeatable in many ages ... there are any number of factors that made this reality. Just try to remember that GvG people BUY DIAMONDS. A LOT. You cannot afford to alienate them. Therefore proceed with caution here please. Alienate this group and you will lose a lot of experienced, long-term loyal players -- and their money with them.

4. On the same issues above, there is one other factor that would make things easier to actually measure the success (profitability, etc) of any of these things. Innogames you need to do a mass purging of dead accounts and guilds across all servers. If you look at any single server (I used US9 "Jaims" as an example in our own discussions) -- 84,000+ accounts listed. According to the databases 6700 are active and 18,000 "inactive". To be fair and conservative let's take that at face value and say that out of 84,000 listed accounts 24,700 are active. Guess what? That means that 70% OF THE ACCOUNTS ON THE SERVER ARE DEAD. My question then becomes simple -- how do you accurately measure the performance of your features if 70% of the "players" are now zombie accounts? Before you start throwing 5% - this or "Less than x" of that at us, Innogames you need to clean house. Any inactive guild or account on the server for over a year should be purged. TODAY. Use good data for decision making. Clean it up.

All this said -- I offer these suggestions and points to ponder with love for the game and sincerest best wishes for Innogames. I find your work impressive, your game fun and your attention to issues stimulating. You get it wrong from time to time, but like most of us here I feel you get it right more often than not. Otherwise I would not be here, right?

Tread carefully with GvG. Know who your benefactors are. Clean up your house and make sure you are not using skewed numbers (yes I know it looks better to say "84,000 accounts" but that is simply not true and should not be used as a basis for anything). And most importantly of all get the HTML5 version debugged before Flash support terminates. Do these things and I for one will stick with you.

MikeJ916 - Founder, MSG Family of Guilds in FOE
 

DeletedUser32606

I especially like these two suggestions made earlier:


On attrition:
- it'd be great if attrition accumulation was affected to some extent by how well you fight and not just how much (i.e. reward strategic victories taking little damage over autoing thus allowing you to get more fights in)

Revealing the names of the competing guilds at the end of each cycle instead of the beginning: This could eliminate collaborating between GvG allies or guilds with the same players in different worlds. If there are enough constraints in the design to eliminate the collaboration between guilds, it may not be needed.

My own feedback:
One of the problems to me with GvG is the reset time. In this new feature Attrition should NOT have a set server wide reset time, but should either be a set time from when that player last fought or reduced a set amount once per hour.
 

DeletedUser

Not even close. Two main reasons more people don't fight in GvG are:
1. Mobile players can't.
2. Maps are dominated by large established guilds to the virtual exclusion of newer or smaller guilds.
Has nothing to do with understanding the "mysteries" of GvG.

Unless you work in Inno's HQ you have no way of knowing whether this is true or not. It is not helpful to any discussion to spout off fantasy numbers of how you think things are.
You can easily tell how many people are playing diamonds by who is in the Gold league in the spring events etc. Diamond players reach that level.
 

DeletedUser29737

GVG is dying and has been for years - innogames absolutely has no clue how to fix the issues and basically admitted they cannot solve it. Over half the player base is app players who cannot participate in gvg even if they wanted to, take out the players who are inactive, the players who only want to city build, the players who are too low age or too weak computers to help and of course its only 5% who participate in gvg. gvg has gotten slower and slower - something is or has changed on the servers for gvg and I think innogames did it on purpose in an attempt to kill off gvg. If you cant figure out how to solve an issue the preferred answer is get rid of it by being able to say - "Most of the players do not use this feature" - treasure hunts anyone? They were pc only and innogames got rid of them (not that they were all that great either)

GE was a band aid to distract gvg fighters, this is another attempt to distract us further. We get more and more events every year - and let's face it they usually suck or are designed in a way to make it nearly impossible to finish with spending diamonds or buying whatever item the event needs.

inno if you want advice - STOP adding crap to the game and fix the issues; some of which you just don't seem to have the expertise or ability to fix. Make goods above FE have a purpose or just remove them from the game completely. Exchange them in players inventory and guild treasuries for FE goods for instance. Increase the costs of technology past FE to be more expensive to balance out that everyone is producing FE goods. Remove AA map and make guilds have to fight on lower maps. Medals are worthless and any top 50 player probably has millions at their disposal. You redid the rankings system once before - time to dramatically redo gvg. There should be a daily cost for holding sectors and should scale - cant afford sectors than the furthest from the HQ should automatically turn npc. This would stop guilds from holding the entire map indefinitely and cause more activity. It would also make guilds stick to what they can actually afford. Defense should be FAR tougher for gvg - I can take out an 80 rein sector in 5 minutes or less alone autobattling. There is little to no risk. Attack someone off hours? Done right you can take a dozen sectors overnight while they sleep. Where is the fun in that?
 

DeletedUser22214

Why? Do you even know how to play GvG? I play in a 2 person guild. It wasn't easy, but we just kicked a 65 member guild off of the map and sit where they used to sit.

It seems to me that the people who are so eager to dump GvG one, never played, are not interested in spending the time to learn how to play it effectively, are not willing to spend the time/effort to build up their cities and hone their fighting skills and then are those who sucked at it, and just want it to go away, because well, they sucked at it.

I know this wasn't to me but my comments criticizing GvG above come from playing it for years and looking at the inherent problems to it
 

DeletedUser27690

I feel that the developers are going about this the wrong way. Inno continues to add more features, more content, more things to do, in a deliberate attempt to keep players logged into the game as much as humanly possible. This feature looks to to be just another additional bloat to an already bloated game. The upcoming Space Age Mars looks like it should have been a sequel to Forge of Empires rather than part of the same game. This upcoming battlegrounds feature likewise looks like it belongs in a different game.

Instead of shoveling more and more things to do on players, why not really concentrate on fixing the features you already have? GvG is complicated and unbalanced and not available on mobile. So fix it. A lot of people have abandoned GvG simply because it is skewed in favor of the biggest guilds with the most resources and players who are able to somehow be logged in to the game constantly. High level guilds in every world only got there through GvG, so this part of the game is clearly important. Not fixing the problems with it means the developers are just ignoring said problems.

Why not update GE? Give it a face lift? New challenges, new rewards? The reason more people do GE is because it's easier overall and a good way to help your guild gain prestige without the persistent GvG slog that ultimately is a zero-sum game to most players. GE has grown stale, but this isn't being addressed either.

I will just put it bluntly: I don't want more content in this game. I've been playing for over three years and there is simply too much to do. I think the best thing Inno could possibly do is go back to basics. Simpler is better. Fix existing problems. Let players just advance through the tech tree and build cities. Instead we're bombarded with constant events, constant sidequests, constant diversions. STOP GIVING US MORE STUFF TO DO. The more bloat you add to the game, the more people are going to walk away. I'm getting close.

Just my two cents.
 

DeletedUser37581

The core issue I see here is that Inno is burying its head in the sand about one basic thing -- the diamond buyers of this game seem to fall into two groups
I doubt that it is Inno that has its head in the sand regarding where its revenues come from, or where the future growth of revenues will come from. I would place my stake on Inno in this regard, not your speculation.
 

DeletedUser26263

I feel that the developers are going about this the wrong way. Inno continues to add more features, more content, more things to do, in a deliberate attempt to keep players logged into the game as much as humanly possible. This feature looks to to be just another additional bloat to an already bloated game. The upcoming Space Age Mars looks like it should have been a sequel to Forge of Empires rather than part of the same game. This upcoming battlegrounds feature likewise looks like it belongs in a different game.

Instead of shoveling more and more things to do on players, why not really concentrate on fixing the features you already have? GvG is complicated and unbalanced and not available on mobile. So fix it. A lot of people have abandoned GvG simply because it is skewed in favor of the biggest guilds with the most resources and players who are able to somehow be logged in to the game constantly. High level guilds in every world only got there through GvG, so this part of the game is clearly important. Not fixing the problems with it means the developers are just ignoring said problems.

Why not update GE? Give it a face lift? New challenges, new rewards? The reason more people do GE is because it's easier overall and a good way to help your guild gain prestige without the persistent GvG slog that ultimately is a zero-sum game to most players. GE has grown stale, but this isn't being addressed either.

I will just put it bluntly: I don't want more content in this game. I've been playing for over three years and there is simply too much to do. I think the best thing Inno could possibly do is go back to basics. Simpler is better. Fix existing problems. Let players just advance through the tech tree and build cities. Instead we're bombarded with constant events, constant sidequests, constant diversions. STOP GIVING US MORE STUFF TO DO. The more bloat you add to the game, the more people are going to walk away. I'm getting close.

Just my two cents.


AMEN ON MOST OF THIS. And I reiterate what I said above -- #1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 on the Inno hit list should be getting the HTML version playable, less "buggy", faster. You cannot even cut & paste in it half the time -- which is a FATAL flaw for guild Leaders and members.

- Remember who buys your stuff.
- Fix problems that are potentially game-killers FIRST (HTML is fatal once Flash terminates updates & support)
- Be careful that you do not make the game "unplayable" by adding too much.

AGREED EmperorPenguin. AMEN.
 

DeletedUser26263

I doubt that it is Inno that has its head in the sand regarding where its revenues come from, or where the future growth of revenues will come from. I would place my stake on Inno in this regard, not your speculation.

The majority of accounts on all their servers (US anyway) are DEAD. That means people simply left the game. I am speculating yes -- but based on hard evidence. Let me put it more succinctly:

How can you trust your own numbers if the majority of your purported "players" are abandoned accounts? I am not saying I am right or wrong - merely offering another way to look at it. I am pointing out that the evidence in front of us suggests a major flaw in the process. Too much time is spent developing new features and not enough cleaning up the messes left behind. HTML HTML HTML -- just one pending train wreck because the job remains unfinished. This GvG situation is another. They need to finish what they start and get the house in order before spouting numbers at us as an excuse to do - or not do - anything. The numbers are not credible.
 

Liberty

Active Member
This is incorrect. It means that the remaining 50% of FoE's revenues are made up of ALL the non-US players and the Non-mobile US players. That leaves US PC players just a fraction of the total, US GvG players, a fraction of a fraction, or about 5% of the user base.
Nope. He said. "In the US market, mobile accounts for 50% of earnings." Which means that the other 50% of earnings in the U.S. market are NON-MOBILE.
 
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