DeletedUser26965
So in your experience would you say it's apx 500 goods on average to negotiate all of 1-3?
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DeletedUser28021
So in your experience would you say it's apx 500 goods on average to negotiate all of 1-3?
That example wasn't entirely negotiation. There was more negotiation than there should have been - that city should be able to fight thru level 1. But results are rather variable, in part because *sometimes* there are significant goods returned. E.g. that 200 good relic. And sometimes there are not. The same city last week did much better (302 goods cost) - but I think more fighting was done, and less negotiation.
DeletedUser26965
That example wasn't entirely negotiation. There was more negotiation than there should have been - that city should be able to fight thru level 1. But results are rather variable, in part because *sometimes* there are significant goods returned. E.g. that 200 good relic. And sometimes there are not. The same city last week did much better (302 goods cost) - but I think more fighting was done, and less negotiation.
Okay but would you say in general if you negotiate all encounters levels 1-3 it would cost on average 500 goods? I've been looking for data regarding negotiations/goods,
Please Post How Many Goods It Takes You To Negotiate GE
DeletedUser28021
Okay but would you say in general if you negotiate all encounters levels 1-3 it would cost on average 500 goods? I've been looking for data regarding negotiations/goods,
Please Post How Many Goods It Takes You To Negotiate GE
That's a very good question. At this point, I generally fight most/all of level I, and was already doing that before I started this statistics project. And because goods are more expensive than troops, I don't want to go back to negotiating level I. So unless I start a town with no combat bonuses whatsoever, I'm not likely to gather those statistics.
You can probably get a decent idea of level II by tabulating all the results so far. One or two of these towns have sometimes fought part of level II, so it will tend to estimate low. Also, I don't know whether there's any impact from city level on the cost of negotiating, measured in current/prior age goods. I don't think so, but I don't know for sure.
OTOH, I've subtracted any goods won from goods spent, which means that the effect of a Temple of Relics matters. And the one city without a ToR never does level 3.
It looks like we need to find a pure negotiator and get them to add their statistics to this thread. I don't suppose that would be you?
*thoughtful* I do have an experimental HQS city which I abandoned in late BA. It could move into IA, form its own "guild", and experiment. But I really don't have the time to play it currently, which is why I abandoned it.
wolfhoundtoo
Well-Known Member
ok Joe I'll switch to negotiating my way thru my 3 FE Cities for a couple of weeks and give you results.
DeletedUser28021
City seven (two, one age later) - HMA; atk +50%; def +39%; ToR 3
level 1 - -4 attached troops, +3 unattached troops, -59 prior age goods, +3320 coins, +891 supplies, -3500 tavern silver, +5 FP, +1 motivation kit, +1 ToR blueprint, +3 normal blueprint, +1 alchemist.
level 2 - +8 unattached troops, -59 prior age goods, -78 current age goods, +8,733 coins, +740 supplies, +40 diamonds, -1500 tavern silver, +20 FP, +1 motivation kit, +2 ordinary blueprints, + 1 face of the ancient, +1 doctor
- level 3 - +12 unattached troops, -72 prior age goods, -256 current age goods, +36,624 coins, +14,544 supplies, +15 diamonds, -3000 tavern silver, +20 FP, +1 ritual flame, + 8 ordinary blueprints
level 1 - -4 attached troops, +3 unattached troops, -59 prior age goods, +3320 coins, +891 supplies, -3500 tavern silver, +5 FP, +1 motivation kit, +1 ToR blueprint, +3 normal blueprint, +1 alchemist.
level 2 - +8 unattached troops, -59 prior age goods, -78 current age goods, +8,733 coins, +740 supplies, +40 diamonds, -1500 tavern silver, +20 FP, +1 motivation kit, +2 ordinary blueprints, + 1 face of the ancient, +1 doctor
- level 3 - +12 unattached troops, -72 prior age goods, -256 current age goods, +36,624 coins, +14,544 supplies, +15 diamonds, -3000 tavern silver, +20 FP, +1 ritual flame, + 8 ordinary blueprints
DeletedUser28021
I've been wondering if I'm recording the right data.
It's much easier to record the state when I start a GE session, and when I end, rather than recording how much is gained and how much lost. I.e. if I spend 1000 coins and win 1000 coins, I record 0 coins. But if I win enough coins, I'll get an extra coin-collecting quest loop. And that could be more valuable than many GE rewards. (medals, diamonds, FP, goods are all > extra turns, motivation kits, or the 50th unneeded happiness-enhancing building) - even more so in a city with a Chateau Frontenac (city 5, as it happens).
Also, there's been a question raised about how much/little negotiating/fighting is done. These cities are all doing as much fighting as can reasonably be managed, given the (in)comptence of their player, and the amount of playing time available (negotiating takes less time per encounter than fighting). The goal there is to produce the cheapest costs, and hence the most cost effective GE results. But some people care about the benefits of winning lots of battles, and others may want to apply the results to a pure negotiation city, or even decide between city designs emphasizing negotiation or combat.
It's much easier to record the state when I start a GE session, and when I end, rather than recording how much is gained and how much lost. I.e. if I spend 1000 coins and win 1000 coins, I record 0 coins. But if I win enough coins, I'll get an extra coin-collecting quest loop. And that could be more valuable than many GE rewards. (medals, diamonds, FP, goods are all > extra turns, motivation kits, or the 50th unneeded happiness-enhancing building) - even more so in a city with a Chateau Frontenac (city 5, as it happens).
Also, there's been a question raised about how much/little negotiating/fighting is done. These cities are all doing as much fighting as can reasonably be managed, given the (in)comptence of their player, and the amount of playing time available (negotiating takes less time per encounter than fighting). The goal there is to produce the cheapest costs, and hence the most cost effective GE results. But some people care about the benefits of winning lots of battles, and others may want to apply the results to a pure negotiation city, or even decide between city designs emphasizing negotiation or combat.
DeletedUser26965
That would be great. If you can post how many goods you spent on this other thread Please Post How Many Goods It Takes You To Negotiate GE that would be great.ok Joe I'll switch to negotiating my way thru my 3 FE Cities for a couple of weeks and give you results.
Guess that's really up to you but I find knowing what was spent and what was gained a bit more valuable I suppose like how ODragon posted on my thread. Would be nice if they give us Add a Cost/Reward Summary Tab at the End of Guild ExpeditionIt's much easier to record the state when I start a GE session, and when I end, rather than recording how much is gained and how much lost. I.e. if I spend 1000 coins and win 1000 coins, I record 0 coins.
DeletedUser28021
Final report from last week:
City eight (= city one, I believe) - HMA; atk +62%; def +51%; ToR 5
Somewhat sloppy play, IIRC, and more negotiation than its stats suggest.
level 1 - -2 unattached troops, -38 prior age goods, +25 current age goods, +10,091 coins, +6738 supplies, +10 diamonds, -6000 tavern silver, +1 gate of sun god, +3 normal blueprints, +1 ToR blueprint
level 2 - +23 unattached troops (10 of which were rogues); -76 prior age goods; +79 current age goods, +22,636 coins, -288 supplies, +65 diamonds, -1500 tavern silver, +4 ordinary blueprints, +1 farm
Level 3 - +12 unattached troops, -71 prior age goods, 0 current age goods, +8,636 coins, +38,075 supplies, +15 diamonds, -3000 tavern silver, +60 FP, +1 mass motivation kit, +1 town house
City eight (= city one, I believe) - HMA; atk +62%; def +51%; ToR 5
Somewhat sloppy play, IIRC, and more negotiation than its stats suggest.
level 1 - -2 unattached troops, -38 prior age goods, +25 current age goods, +10,091 coins, +6738 supplies, +10 diamonds, -6000 tavern silver, +1 gate of sun god, +3 normal blueprints, +1 ToR blueprint
level 2 - +23 unattached troops (10 of which were rogues); -76 prior age goods; +79 current age goods, +22,636 coins, -288 supplies, +65 diamonds, -1500 tavern silver, +4 ordinary blueprints, +1 farm
Level 3 - +12 unattached troops, -71 prior age goods, 0 current age goods, +8,636 coins, +38,075 supplies, +15 diamonds, -3000 tavern silver, +60 FP, +1 mass motivation kit, +1 town house
wolfhoundtoo
Well-Known Member
All Cities are FE (since I've done only negotiation no att/def info presented):
City 1: TOR 10
level 1: -4,000 silver, -75 TE goods, -63,000 coins, -33,000 supplies, +150,000 coins, 1 motivation kit, 1 deco, 4 units, 2 attempts, 1 house, 102,000 supplies. No relics.
level 2: -5,000 silver, -97 TE goods, -103 FE goods, -52,000 coins, -63,000 supplies, +3 BPs, +4 attempts, +8 units, +65 diamonds, +344,000 coins, +224,000 supplies, +25 FE goods, +4 common relics +1 gold relic, +2 decos, +10 units, +100 FPs.
level 3: -2,500, -55 TE goods, -218 FE goods, -72,000 coins, -52,000 supplies, -2,851 medals, +12 units, +3 BPs, +1 housing, +594,000 coins, +1 cultural building, +20 FPs, +460,000 supplies, +25 TE goods, +4 common relics, +1 jade relic, +20 FPs, +4 BPs, +1 deco, +1 reno kit.
City 2: TOR 12
level 1: -3,000 silver, -74 TE goods, -52,000 coins, -52,000 supplies, +101,000 coins, +2 FPs, +4 attempts, +4 units, +1 deco, +10 TE goods, +10 FE goods, +1 BP, +1 motivation kits, +3 common relics, +1 gold relic, +1 deco, +2,400 medals, +25 FE goods, +2 BPs.
level 2: -2,500 silver, -548 medals, -116 FE goods, -109 TE goods, -62,000 coins, -44,000 supplies, -10 diamonds, +1 motivation kit, +8 units, +1 housing, +260,000 supplies, +70,000 coins, +6 attempts, +3 BPs, +5 FPs, +15 diamonds, + 3 common relics, +40 FPs, +1 Deco
level 3: -2,500 silver, -5,912 medals, -78 TE goods, -220 FE goods, -56,000 coins, -62,000 supplies, +12 units, +3 BPs, +20 FPs, +45 FE goods, +579,000 coins, +260,000 supplies, +1 housing, +1 supply building, +1 foundation of youth, +2 common relics, +1 gold relic, +1 deco, +2 BPs, +2,400 medals
level 4: -2,500 silver, -50 diamonds, -13,000 coins, -26,000 supplies, -5,760 medals (negotiations), -8,271 medals (extra attempts not needed just wanted to finish), +4 attempts, +22 FPs, +3 BPs, +150 diamonds (4 encounters), +1 culture building, +6,000 medals, +375,000 coins, +60 FE goods, +1 Sacred sky watch, +1 common relic, + 2 gold relics, +5 units, +200 FE goods, +1 tribal square.
City 3: TOR 10
level 1: -4,000 silver, -71 TE goods, -58,000 coins, -51,000 supplies, +4 units, +94,000 supplies, +1 deco, +4 attempts, +35 TE goods, +1 housing, +2 FPs, +1 BP, +1 Common relic, +1 Gold relic, +1 Deco, +10 rogues
level 2: -2,500 silver, -73 TE goods, -87 FE goods, -41,000 coins, -54,000 supplies, +274,000 coins, +70,000 supplies, +8 units, +8 attempts, +10 FPs, +1 BP, +1 motivation kit, +65 diamonds, +15 FE goods. No relics won.
level 3: -2,500 silver, - 10 diamonds, -1,980 medals, -204 FE goods, -74 TE goods, -48,000 coin, -64,000 supplies, +344,000 coins, +12 units, +7 BPs, +740,000 supplies, +1 store building, +20 FE goods, +20 FPs, 3 common relics, 1 jade relic, +15 units, +Reno Kit
level 4: -2,500 silver, -527 TE goods, -528 FE goods, - 5,520 medals, -40 diamonds (2 of them I was just sloppy and the other 2 results from me guessing incorrectly), -12,500 coins, -51,000 supplies, +4 attempts, +390,000 supplies, +6,000 medals, +1 production building, +1 deco, +22 FPs, +55 FE goods, +200 diamonds (won from 4 encounters total), +1 terrace farm.
City 1: TOR 10
level 1: -4,000 silver, -75 TE goods, -63,000 coins, -33,000 supplies, +150,000 coins, 1 motivation kit, 1 deco, 4 units, 2 attempts, 1 house, 102,000 supplies. No relics.
level 2: -5,000 silver, -97 TE goods, -103 FE goods, -52,000 coins, -63,000 supplies, +3 BPs, +4 attempts, +8 units, +65 diamonds, +344,000 coins, +224,000 supplies, +25 FE goods, +4 common relics +1 gold relic, +2 decos, +10 units, +100 FPs.
level 3: -2,500, -55 TE goods, -218 FE goods, -72,000 coins, -52,000 supplies, -2,851 medals, +12 units, +3 BPs, +1 housing, +594,000 coins, +1 cultural building, +20 FPs, +460,000 supplies, +25 TE goods, +4 common relics, +1 jade relic, +20 FPs, +4 BPs, +1 deco, +1 reno kit.
City 2: TOR 12
level 1: -3,000 silver, -74 TE goods, -52,000 coins, -52,000 supplies, +101,000 coins, +2 FPs, +4 attempts, +4 units, +1 deco, +10 TE goods, +10 FE goods, +1 BP, +1 motivation kits, +3 common relics, +1 gold relic, +1 deco, +2,400 medals, +25 FE goods, +2 BPs.
level 2: -2,500 silver, -548 medals, -116 FE goods, -109 TE goods, -62,000 coins, -44,000 supplies, -10 diamonds, +1 motivation kit, +8 units, +1 housing, +260,000 supplies, +70,000 coins, +6 attempts, +3 BPs, +5 FPs, +15 diamonds, + 3 common relics, +40 FPs, +1 Deco
level 3: -2,500 silver, -5,912 medals, -78 TE goods, -220 FE goods, -56,000 coins, -62,000 supplies, +12 units, +3 BPs, +20 FPs, +45 FE goods, +579,000 coins, +260,000 supplies, +1 housing, +1 supply building, +1 foundation of youth, +2 common relics, +1 gold relic, +1 deco, +2 BPs, +2,400 medals
level 4: -2,500 silver, -50 diamonds, -13,000 coins, -26,000 supplies, -5,760 medals (negotiations), -8,271 medals (extra attempts not needed just wanted to finish), +4 attempts, +22 FPs, +3 BPs, +150 diamonds (4 encounters), +1 culture building, +6,000 medals, +375,000 coins, +60 FE goods, +1 Sacred sky watch, +1 common relic, + 2 gold relics, +5 units, +200 FE goods, +1 tribal square.
City 3: TOR 10
level 1: -4,000 silver, -71 TE goods, -58,000 coins, -51,000 supplies, +4 units, +94,000 supplies, +1 deco, +4 attempts, +35 TE goods, +1 housing, +2 FPs, +1 BP, +1 Common relic, +1 Gold relic, +1 Deco, +10 rogues
level 2: -2,500 silver, -73 TE goods, -87 FE goods, -41,000 coins, -54,000 supplies, +274,000 coins, +70,000 supplies, +8 units, +8 attempts, +10 FPs, +1 BP, +1 motivation kit, +65 diamonds, +15 FE goods. No relics won.
level 3: -2,500 silver, - 10 diamonds, -1,980 medals, -204 FE goods, -74 TE goods, -48,000 coin, -64,000 supplies, +344,000 coins, +12 units, +7 BPs, +740,000 supplies, +1 store building, +20 FE goods, +20 FPs, 3 common relics, 1 jade relic, +15 units, +Reno Kit
level 4: -2,500 silver, -527 TE goods, -528 FE goods, - 5,520 medals, -40 diamonds (2 of them I was just sloppy and the other 2 results from me guessing incorrectly), -12,500 coins, -51,000 supplies, +4 attempts, +390,000 supplies, +6,000 medals, +1 production building, +1 deco, +22 FPs, +55 FE goods, +200 diamonds (won from 4 encounters total), +1 terrace farm.
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wolfhoundtoo
Well-Known Member
Items to note about my statistics above:
1) There was no need for me to spend the medals (prior to level 4) I just wanted to get the levels done at one time for ease of record keeping for this thread. As a result my silver is slightly underspent as I usually do them in groups of 8 with the 1,500 extra turn option (which for me is sufficient under normal circumstances to do 12 encounters assuming I win the extra attempts).
2) Where I spent diamonds I knew that the next negotiation turn had only 1 valid answer left.
3) This week 2 of my guilds opened level 4 so I will post those results once I've completed them.
I know I said i'd do this for 2 weeks but I'm going to wait a couple of weeks before doing all negotiation again as it's a bit pricey in goods. If I remember next week i'll post my results from fighting the 3 levels (or mostly fighting if I get pressed for time next week).
1) There was no need for me to spend the medals (prior to level 4) I just wanted to get the levels done at one time for ease of record keeping for this thread. As a result my silver is slightly underspent as I usually do them in groups of 8 with the 1,500 extra turn option (which for me is sufficient under normal circumstances to do 12 encounters assuming I win the extra attempts).
2) Where I spent diamonds I knew that the next negotiation turn had only 1 valid answer left.
3) This week 2 of my guilds opened level 4 so I will post those results once I've completed them.
I know I said i'd do this for 2 weeks but I'm going to wait a couple of weeks before doing all negotiation again as it's a bit pricey in goods. If I remember next week i'll post my results from fighting the 3 levels (or mostly fighting if I get pressed for time next week).
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DeletedUser26154
I'm going to be taking a break from documenting G.E. during the summer.
DeletedUser28021
Last week was plagued by flaky internet and recording errors, I have 2 cities to report, and neither one got as far as they usually do. I still have the internet problems this week, and the extra time to needed to record data leads to me doing less GE in those conditions. So I probably won't record anything this week.
Following 2 posts refer to last week.
Following 2 posts refer to last week.
DeletedUser28021
City six (city four in a new age) - HMA - atk 53% def 42% no ToR
level 1 - +3 unattached troops; -69 prior age goods; +4,419 coins; +8,323 supplies; -4500 tavern silver; +2 FP; +1 ToR blueprint; +1 ordinary blueprint; +1 brownstone house
level 1 - +3 unattached troops; -69 prior age goods; +4,419 coins; +8,323 supplies; -4500 tavern silver; +2 FP; +1 ToR blueprint; +1 ordinary blueprint; +1 brownstone house
DeletedUser28021
City five - HMA; atk +53%; def + 42%; ToR 5
level 1 - -6 unattached troops; +35 current age goods; +18,070 coins; + 2 FP; -6000 tavern silver; +1 ordinary blueprint; +1 gargoyle
level 2 - +9 unattached troops; -76 prior age goods; -78 current age goods; +3,954 coins; -3,056 supplies; +50 diamonds; +5 FP; -3000 tavern silver; +1 face of the ancient; +1 ToR blueprint; +2 ordinary blueprint
level 1 - -6 unattached troops; +35 current age goods; +18,070 coins; + 2 FP; -6000 tavern silver; +1 ordinary blueprint; +1 gargoyle
level 2 - +9 unattached troops; -76 prior age goods; -78 current age goods; +3,954 coins; -3,056 supplies; +50 diamonds; +5 FP; -3000 tavern silver; +1 face of the ancient; +1 ToR blueprint; +2 ordinary blueprint
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