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Guild versus Guild

Hello Inno,

Why are players of all ages allowed to fight all the GvG maps? I understand that they must use the same troops, but it still allows for incredibly unbalanced fights. Higher level players have more space in their cities, higher level GBs and far more resources to spend on troop production. Low level players cannot compete.

For example, in E world we have a single guild that has formed 5 splinter guilds with many AF level fighters that are dominating all the maps. They've even gone so far all to clear all other guilds off half of the Iron Age map, only allowing their splinter guild mates to come in behind them and hold tiles. This is like the high school basketball team showing up at the elementary school recess with more trash talking, swearing and threats in global than I ever saw in high school. Players actually in the iron age are unable to fight the iron age gvg map unless they pay protection money to the bullies by joining one of their guilds.

This is ruining GvG for most of your players. Why is this allowed?
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
This is ruining GvG for most of your players.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Provinces have set defense bonus and use a bad AI. Anyone with a higher offensive bonus can beat armies in that province even if the sectors are owned by St. Michael and St. George.

My Guild has been messing around in GvG for 18 months, starting when we were a lvl 4 Guild with no one above HMA.

older Guilds with lots of high level players will dominate a lot of the Provinces, but there is plenty of room to fight, learn, and grow in power.

Will you hold sectors for long against a determined and more powerful opponent? Nope. So chip away.


pffft.
 

spnnr

Well-Known Member
It can be overwhelming when you have now started GVG or on a map dominated by Big guns as myself has been finding out. However it is a learning curve and one should bear in mind but its not only what happens on the field of battle but also what happens off it, which will determine your success or failure.
That said I think there maybe some issues to look at which I think has been proposed.
 
Yes, I have assumed facts not in evidence. My assumptions are based upon my own experiences and my conversations with guild mates, neighbors, and friends. I do not have the ability to conduct a formal survey of the players of FoE and so am acting upon the knowledge I possess.

I believe that limiting players to fighting in just the GvG maps for their tech age and one age below would invigorate GvG, making room for players of all ages. I am curious as to the thoughts of others. Thank you to those who have responded. I hope to hear from more, particularly those in the lower ages.
 

DeletedUser25166

HMA fighter hangs out and gets 100% A/D with rogues and Champs. whats the difference?
 

DeletedUser25166

You can still be an HMA fighter with a Traz, high attack boost. So your proposal is not going to change fighting
 
I don't see it stallion. Yes, you can be a HMA fighter with a Traz and a high attack boost, but there are very few such players. I'm a Modern player with a Traz and a decent attack boost. In a fight between myself and other modern age fighters (or PME age fighters) I would be up against players with similar resources instead of against fighters with 1/4 more land than I can access and GBs that produce modern age goods (mine are producing colonial). I would also be up against a much smaller number of fighters since those players 2 ages above and all ages below would be excluded. In your example, I would not be able to bust into HMA with my traz and fighting boost because I would have a huge advantage over players actually in HMA.

My idea (not a formal proposal yet because I was hoping for more input first) would drastically change fighting in GvG.
 

DeletedUser26660

Hello Inno,

Why are players of all ages allowed to fight all the GvG maps? I understand that they must use the same troops, but it still allows for incredibly unbalanced fights. Higher level players have more space in their cities, higher level GBs and far more resources to spend on troop production. Low level players cannot compete.

For example, in E world we have a single guild that has formed 5 splinter guilds with many AF level fighters that are dominating all the maps. They've even gone so far all to clear all other guilds off half of the Iron Age map, only allowing their splinter guild mates to come in behind them and hold tiles. This is like the high school basketball team showing up at the elementary school recess with more trash talking, swearing and threats in global than I ever saw in high school. Players actually in the iron age are unable to fight the iron age gvg map unless they pay protection money to the bullies by joining one of their guilds.

This is ruining GvG for most of your players. Why is this allowed?

My advice is to prepare for any level GvG before playing it. Build up Zeus/CoA/CdM ideally to level 10 each so you have a combined +90 attack/defense boost, plus now with the Tavern use attack/defense boosts whenever you can. Also get a Traz early on and build that up so that you get free troops every 24 hours. Decide which troops you want for which era GvG and build up a sizeable army first so that you can attack, this will then allow you to take and then hold several hexes at once. Get your guildmates to do same.

The guys you are describing have likely done some or all of what I suggest by the sounds of it and are now benefitting from it from what you say. No reason though why someone else who prepares properly cannot come along though and give them a run for their money.
 
Thank you Sir Lance for the reply. I am once again confused by the advice offered here. You seem to be suggesting that a new player in the iron age who wants to try out GvG should spend the next 6 months getting the BPs and goods necessary to put down a Zeus, CoA, CdM, and Traz and level the 3 fighting GBs to level 10 prior to trying out GvG. Who would do that?

And yet, you are right in that a player who does not do exactly that will be thoroughly trounced in Iron Age GvG by the AF players who have those GBs leveled up can turn out troops like crazy and are experienced in GvG.

I am advocating that Inno level the playing field in a manner similar to the recent changes in neighborhoods. Restrict fighting in GvG (I think current plus previous tech level but am open to a broader or more narrow field) so that players of any age are able to fight and be competitive on the GvG map for their age.
 

DeletedUser25166

You just don't get it. No one is saying wait 6 months. Use your Forge Points for attack GB, not tech tree or stupid things. Enough with this same age crap, that's what neighborhood is for
 

DeletedUser25273

One thing to remember is that even in GvG, the iron age player is never directly battling another player, or even troops with boosts based on another player. Except for HQ sectors, ALL defending troops have *0* boost, so a straight up Iron Age fighter can fight them just as easily as a continent sector. The spots where they will have the advantage are more indirect, they will be able to defeat the siege faster (so the Iron Age fighter will be a under some time pressure, and they will be able to take sectors from your guild quicker.

Rather than trying to restrict higher age players from doing GvG at the lower ages (and running into the question of how much age difference is too much, you want to allow somewhat higher age fighters in to help train the new fighters), I would like to see the rules tweaked so that guilds would be pushed to focus on a more limited number of ages, perhaps making one factor in the cost to attack be based on the TOTAL number of sectors held, not just those of that age. This would encourage guilds with lots of higher ages players to focus on higher aged maps, as holdings on the Iron Age map are no longer 'Free'. Since you tend to get more guild power from higher age sectors, that is where you will focus your efforts.They may have small, and possibly intermittent holding at the lower ages as training camps.
 

spnnr

Well-Known Member
I believe that limiting players to fighting in just the GvG maps for their tech age and one age below would invigorate GvG, making room for players of all ages. I am curious as to the thoughts of others. Thank you to those who have responded. I hope to hear from more, particularly those in the lower ages.

Taking a second look this is interesting as having old age such as IA troops supported by future tech may lead to some imbalance. I unfortunately dont have enough information to give an informed decision.I play GvG and my tech is mostly EMA so there may not have enough disparity since the GBs used are those found in bronze/Iron age.
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
the biggest advantage later era/age players have in GVG would be City size, higher level attack Great Buildings and presuming they have an Orangery the ability to get critical hits against same aged troops in fighting. When talking Iron Age it might very well be that players in Artic would take very few losses when fighting in that age. They would have an advantage but for them to truly 'dominate' a map (and one reason the cost of goods for sieges rises so high is to help prevent one guild from gaining control of most of the map) they still need to spend the time and resources to gain control of and hold said map. If players want to oppose them then they need to do so in an organized and united effort. So basically start finding people to work with and you might be able to do something about the issue you are facing.
 
Thank you wolfhoundtoo, and nomad richie for your thoughtful and polite comments. I particularly like your idea nomad. Since the higher age maps pay more in guild power, the higher guilds would want to focus their efforts there instead.

Wolfhound, I am trying to find people to work with me, but the group we are working against is tough. They keep moving their heavy hitters from one guild to another so they can chase us down. This group of guilds holds the top four spots on every GvG map in E world.
 

DeletedUser26965

I think the main problem in asking to change anything regarding GvG is that in such as your example you're essentially asking guilds that have worked for a long time to gain/defend sectors to essentially give up sectors as each sector would become less defensible as members progress through the tech tree. Regardless of how much guild power any given sector gives no one likes to lose it.

But I agree the current state of GvG gives very little chance, at least in a reasonable amount of time, for anyone besides the already top few established guilds to gain any real foothold in GvG, at least substantial enough to gain guild power and therefore GvG is basically nonexistent to them.

I think coming up with something that adds another GvG aspect to the game is better than trying to change what is already in place, hence my proposal above, perhaps you can think of others. Same with PvP. Both of these are rather weak aspects relative to other games where GvG and PvP are concerned. Here it is very limited and restricting and frankly mostly boring and even silly given that "PvP" towers/tournaments are really not "PvP" they're "Battle Point" towers/tournaments, so you get guilds pecking at AA GvG for Battle Points numerous times a day just for points to get expansions, silly but an effective way for them to get points.
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
Thank you wolfhoundtoo, and nomad richie for your thoughtful and polite comments. I particularly like your idea nomad. Since the higher age maps pay more in guild power, the higher guilds would want to focus their efforts there instead.

Wolfhound, I am trying to find people to work with me, but the group we are working against is tough. They keep moving their heavy hitters from one guild to another so they can chase us down. This group of guilds holds the top four spots on every GvG map in E world.


There is now a delay before a player can participate in GVG if they move guilds IF they've participated in GVG in their old guild. So if you start tracking the membership of each guild and when they move you might be able to hit at a time when some of their fighters aren't able to assist. Another tip is try and find maps where they've expanded hugely and pick off sectors. If the guild has a lot of sectors the cost in goods to replace a sector can be extremely high. Mostly though you might want to consider your goals in GVG. If you know you can't hold sectors for long you might want to consider grabbing what you can as cheaply as you can to obtain whatever benefit you can while causing your enemy the most damage. One of the reasons they are using those 'ghost' guilds is the cost of goods for GVG. So if you can get enough people and break thru to the 'main' guild you can inflict losses on them that they might feel. You'll never 'win' but since the goal is presumably to have fun while gathering power you can build your guild level while denying them as much power as you can.

Also if you can find players to work with from various ages you might be able o take advantage of their moving about if they aren't careful about it (depending on how they are set up on the other maps).
 
Yes sloppyjoeslayer, that is exactly what I am asking. There cannot be room in the maps for others if the current holders do not give up space. Leveling the playing field so that everyone has a chance would both encourage the younger players and give the older players a new challenge.

Thank you wolfhoundtoo for the advice!
 
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