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Guild vs Guild Improvements Feedback

  • Thread starter DeletedUser4770
  • Start date
Thoughts on being able to click on a guild banner when trying to get in to a sector to battles some of the older people in my guild have problems with going to view sector each time.
 

-Athena-

Active Member
@athena9 I think an important consideration you missed, however, is that the game will now be providing free SAM troops to kill as well since it doesn't matter what was put into the sector prior to it being released, only that it was filled. Any unwanted troops can be converted into SAM troops for farming in this way.

I'll say it again. Make GvG battles award 0 points. If farming is a problem that needs to be addressed, this is how you do it. Any other 'solution' will simply change how people farm, not get rid of it.

I'm actually not opposed to the zero points idea. It's an outside the box idea which always deserves consideration.
I do think the developers' idea of replacing of troops with highest age units is dead wrong and should be lowest age or mixed bag.
 

DeletedUser27860

I'm actually not opposed to the zero points idea. It's an outside the box idea which always deserves consideration.
I do think the developers' idea of replacing of troops with highest age units is dead wrong and should be lowest age or mixed bag.
The worst thing these changes do is alow a guild to take an entire map in a day with a big enough guild.. these changes only favor large guilds with lots of GvG players.

The points were a prop for the real change which clears out guilds with a few strong players in favor of more total players.
 

-Athena-

Active Member
The worst thing these changes do is alow a guild to take an entire map in a day with a big enough guild.. these changes only favor large guilds with lots of GvG players.

That's why I don't like the 6 calculations per day. If they need to reduce traffic to reduce lag do 2 not 6.
Their proposals are not perfect and I hope the fact they are specifically asking for feedback means they are open to tweaking them.
The 6 calcs per day makes the HQ remaining on a 24 hour cycle a non factor since you can siege from any tile once the bubble drops. That needs some serious tweaking. If it isn't addressed people are going to have start filling their tiles with hard defenses again and map watch like the good ole days lol. But yeah it's an advantage for bigger guilds who more than likely have people who are on at different hours.
 
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DeletedUser40780

Here's the reality - determined players will always find a way to farm points and "outsmart" the system. Take away NPCs for farming using whatever suggested way you can think of, and guilds will just trade tiles instead. Giving farmers a chance to farm up to 6 times per day will only make that aspect of the game easier to exploit. Reducing champ points will help. Reducing points NPCs give could help. Giving 0 points for GvG will "fix" farmers, but that's sort of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

A lot of the problems with farming come down to human nature. It's not exclusive to FoE. Just look at the NBA - top players teaming up to get easy championships/achievements.

Top guilds group together to protect themselves, so they have an easy ride - then they can figure out how to utilize the system that's available. If that doesn't work, players can just go solo and farm landing zones or raid guilds the fill their tiles. The top-ranked person on our server (number 5 on all US servers) doesn't champ farm at all, he just farms AA landing zones at off-hours. If you break his siege, he just comes back later when you aren't around. No real way to defend against it except not hold landing zones. It's insanely annoying placing good DAs only to have them farmed away overnight (it's one of the main reason all our landing zones in AA are filled with spears - opps, that's not going to be an option anymore).

I think lbrada is just a preview of what we have to look forward to with 4-hour resets. It also is going to give a disproportionate advantage to off-hours players. They will be able to take tiles uncontested, while regular hours player will still have to deal with resistance.

The 4hr reset is going greatly benefit two guild types:
huge/well-developed guilds that can easily absorb the increased cost in units/goods
Raiding one-man shops/ghost guilds that aren't looking to hold land

The medium-sized guilds that want to hold land but can't afford the turnover are going to get rocked. Large guilds will just out-resource them, and the raiders will bleed them to death. It's not that this wouldn't/doesn't happen in the existing format, but the 4hr resets will just magnify what's already happening.

This also doesn't directly resolve the lag issues at recalc. Fighting is still going to center around resets when people are available. The reset that's directly before the ranking calculation will be the most important one. Hopefully the rank calculation moves later, otherwise, the 4 pm (EST) reset is going to become the most important. That will make it even harder for smaller guilds to cover (unless you have fighters in Europe - how does that help make GvG better for US players? European servers will have the same issue).

I hope to goodness this gets tested extensively on Beta before being pushed to live servers. Not so much for me/my guild personally, but for the health of FoE in general.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
That needs some serious tweaking.

I'm OK with 4 hours for an extended test run. The beauty of this is that once INNO develops the ability to have multiple recalcs a day then if GvG gets too stupid with 4 hours, changing to 8 or 12 or 6.7145 hours (or random? Heh,) is a matter of notifying the playres instead of running a development cycle.

The worst thing these changes do is alow a guild to take an entire map in a day with a big enough guild.. these changes only favor large guilds with lots of GvG players.

And all the other Guilds are doing nothing?

If a Guild took over a whole map 4 hours later every other Guild will attack back and start tearing them to shreds because trying to take and hold any map other then AA will eventually deplete any Guild of Goods. 6 attack opportunities a day, only 1 Arc collection. Hmmm... More on this in a bit.

And AA? Think any Guild, no matter how vigilant, can stop dozens of attacks every 4 hours indefinitely? 6 attack cycles per day, 1.3 Traz collections per day. Death of a thousand cuts.

Smaller Guilds will get by the same way they do now. Diplomacy and alliances. And maybe:

Long term campers have become common. A Guild that focuses on recruiting pr developing campers of a particular Era with Powered Arcs (and powered Obs! I expect a run on Atomium. Y'all should prolly get started now finding and devloping those campers.) will have a huge advantage for that Era's map. So it's not AA,big fish little pond ain't all that bad.

----------

All this silly talk about 6 recalcs removing strategy.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

It ruins current strategy. This is bad?

Break out your whiteboards and get your Guildies to thinking or just watch as other Guilds develope and deploy the new strategies and techniques for a different kind of GvG.
 

DeletedUser37581

This also doesn't directly resolve the lag issues at recalc. Fighting is still going to center around resets when people are available. The reset that's directly before the ranking calculation will be the most important one. Hopefully the rank calculation moves later, otherwise, the 4 pm (EST) reset is going to become the most important.
That's not the way I read the announcement. Ranking is determined every four hours.
 

DeletedUser

This also doesn't directly resolve the lag issues at recalc. Fighting is still going to center around resets when people are available. The reset that's directly before the ranking calculation will be the most important one. Hopefully the rank calculation moves later, otherwise, the 4 pm (EST) reset is going to become the most important.
That's not the way I read the announcement. Ranking is determined every four hours.
@dontwannaname reads the Announcement correctly.

"Additional Recalculation Timers
Probably the biggest change we plan to implement is that we're going to change the daily calculation to a 4-hourly calculation. Within this the Guild Power, Guild Ranking, GvG Support Pool bonus and sector protection will be recalculated. However, Guild Level, HQ relocation and GvG Sector freedom grants will remain on a 24-hour timer."

Guild Power Points will be awarded every 4 hours. Guild Ranking (within GvG maps, I believe, and not on global rankings) will be figured every 4 hours and any bonuses awarded. Guild level will remain on a 24-hour timer. What this means is that the Guild Power Points and bonus points from GvG map guild ranking (and Prestige, I presume) will still be applied at the same 8 PM Eastern US time recalc. Kind of like you earn your pay day by day, but it is only applied when you get your paycheck.
 

DeletedUser10131

6 recalc will definitely end the top several guilds from reshielding everything, going in global bragging they're the best for 30 minutes, then put on Bunny Slippers before going to bed. GvG has turned into 20 Min GvG at Rollover then nothing to do till next rollover. Reshields will get expensive doing it every 4 hours.

I expect this was done to drop troops built up from high level Traz, and lower guild treasury inventory. This would help get people spending Diamonds again
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
Just look at the NBA - top players teaming up to get easy championships/achievements.

If you think it's easy, what happened to all the teams that didn't win? You think it's just that simple? They don't team up to "steal" a championship on the easy. They team up to grind one out against all the other teams doing the same thing.
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
I expect this was done to drop troops built up from high level Traz, and lower guild treasury inventory. This would help get people spending Diamonds again

...assuming people will actually spend more diamonds on this iteration of GvG. Not having tested it, they can't really know that... but I guess we'll see, right?
 

DeletedUser27866

As always, we'd love to hear your feedback, so please leave any comments or concerns in this thread. We're hoping with your help, we can shape these improvements to achieve an overall better experience for all who participate in GvG.

Many thanks,

Your Forge of Empires Team

Announcement: https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/guild-vs-guild-improvements.26594/
Looks like FOE wants us to spend Diamonds for AA map GVG or to lvl up to space age if not it will just be dominated by the highest age troops ie space age sound like the lower age GVG fighters are now obsolete
 

DeletedUser27860

6 recalc will definitely end the top several guilds from reshielding everything, going in global bragging they're the best for 30 minutes, then put on Bunny Slippers before going to bed. GvG has turned into 20 Min GvG at Rollover then nothing to do till next rollover. Reshields will get expensive doing it every 4 hours.

I expect this was done to drop troops built up from high-level Traz, and lower guild treasury inventory. This would help get people spending Diamonds again
lol, it's not about shielding, they now can take 6 times as much per day with their more players and more troops.. you can get wiped and take half the map the next day.

This will reward players that play 20hrs a day and punish those that work half the day...

This will reward guilds with players that play at different hours and let them shield zones by taking and taking and tanking more and more of the map to keep shielding up.. the idea you need to drop to make a shield is an ilusion you just need to not be on the beach.
 

DeletedUser28124

But at least it is something rather than scrapping GVG at least they are starting to look at it surely thats a step in the right direction
Does the game really understand what it means when they re-fill the sectors with higher aged troops really means.? It means the champ farmers will drool at the sight of MORE and MORE points. If the game really wants to curb Champ Farming and by the way, who the heck cares about that anyway, people who can't do it.? Also, I do NOT Champ Farm, I fight for real. Most all of us know who the Champ Farmers are and who are not. Additionally, if you really want to discourage this, then have the dropped sectors revert to spears, placed FULL of 8 slots of them. Because, let's be honest, who the heck really wants to fight 80 wins against pointless spears anyway.

Now, to fix it all. NERF the points that Champions spit out. Simple solution right.? Or too simple for people to think about it. There are so many level headed people here who give great advice, but why bother, they will do what they want too anyway. This is a waste of my time writing this. Just destroy the game already and be done with it. You all are doing a great job, little by little. Don't slow tear the bandage, rip the bandage off and just shut it down already and stop playing this cat and mouse game with all of us. Improve the servers and problem solved. Nuke the points on Champs, problem solved. Let the crybabies cry and let the whiners whine. Play the game and see you on the battlefield.
You are leaving out the easiest fix of all ... quadruple the medals cost to place AA sieges and you will solve all of it.
 

DeletedUser40780

6 recalc will definitely end the top several guilds from reshielding everything, going in global bragging they're the best for 30 minutes, then put on Bunny Slippers before going to bed. GvG has turned into 20 Min GvG at Rollover then nothing to do till next rollover. Reshields will get expensive doing it every 4 hours.

There are other ways to do that though.
They could tie how long a tile stays protected to support pool. That'd really ramp up the hq move strategy a lot and make GBs like Obs that have kinda gotten power crept out of use more helpful.

They could put a hard 1, 2, or 4-hour timer on how quickly an NPC can be recaptured by the guild that drops them.

They could make AA37,80 and surrounding tiles landing zones, so that the beach could not be closed all the way around.

Top-end guilds will find a way to make it work, even if it's not bubbling 24/7.

You are leaving out the easiest fix of all ... quadruple the medals cost to place AA sieges and you will solve all of it.

They'll just hold a smaller footprint. Can still farm. Can still shut down the beach. It would definitely reduce how much guilds hold 50-60 tiles in AA though.
 

DeletedUser31502

Simple way to solve it is siege costs go up and up until you land on AA map that way farming npcs becomes expensive for beach farmers
 

DeletedUser38118

I hope to catch a bug once and refresh it. I want to stop and recover the pvp again. It has already been stopped for six months. I do not know who took it.
 

Myrddindau

New Member
As always, we'd love to hear your feedback, so please leave any comments or concerns in this thread. We're hoping with your help, we can shape these improvements to achieve an overall better experience for all who participate in GvG.

Many thanks,

Your Forge of Empires Team

Announcement: https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/guild-vs-guild-improvements.26594/
FANTASTIC changes which will allow for more players/guilds to fight on the GvG map. The 4-hour cycle time will "break" the stranglehold the all-fighting guilds hold on all of the maps (not just the AA map). As far as removing the Bronzed Age troops from the AA map, it is about time to close this loophole (although, guilds will simply use Iron Age troops). The farming of ranking points through "catch-and-release" of sectors - particularly on the AA map - is something that needed to be addressed a long time ago.
 

DeletedUser11463

I'd be interested to see any guild taking more than half a map and holding it more than a day or 2. The time invested and the costs will sky-rocket when you have to defend every 4 hours. I think you will see more guilds getting into the action and smaller footprints. The big guilds will still hold more territory and may even get a bigger footprint temporarily but in the long run, it ain't gonna happen.

One bad point is replacing dropped sectors in AA with space age troops. That will kill AA for anyone below Oceanic.
 
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