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GVG game freezes and why

Discussion in 'Addressed' started by jc821, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. jc821

    jc821 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    I have known since the beginning that the army selection system was flawed so has inno and there first attempt at fixing it somewhat worked by only displaying 20 units at a time it prevented the 4k troop crash. The flaw is not a bug but more of an issue in how flash renders images to the display for non-vector graphics and the more separate entities you get the worse it becomes. I know this because I been programming in flash since the beginning back when it was a great product of macromedia and before adobe bought them and destroyed it. So what’s this have to do with sieges well tbh I have no freaking clue other than to say very poor coding if I had to guess. I for one do not like to give out free advice as an independent consultant but after seeing the game I enjoy to waste time at is losing the great players who keeps it running I’m going to give some. So inno you can either listen to my advice and fix this or ignore me like you do everyone else and continue as usual. Either way I’m going to tell you why they call me the cheater for the past 4 years and if you make the changes I recommend we can start calling all the players cheaters.



    Problem:

    The system can’t handle the separate graphics as is. They will enter ram and stay in memory for ever until accessed and rewritten but based on flash handling of the image viewer it never will. So it becomes leaked and continues to build up until the browser is refreshed. I have seen my own game after hours doing battles build to over 8GB of memory before needing to refresh. The way in which flash does this it’s not fixable because adobe is abandoning flash and macromedia was in the process of rewriting its non-vector image routines before getting bought out. I can confirm this because I have one of the few beta versions that had their new graphic routines in it, and it’s never hit the new versions ever.

    Solution:

    Program around it as you did to fix the 4k troop crash it’s time to re do the army screen. You need to get away from displaying so many graphics no one needs to scroll through hundreds of troops. Develop a system that has 1 unit graphic per type with a number of that unit count on the box. This will fix a lot of things on its own; however, after fighting and damaged units will become an issue like when I have 1k hurt rogues in my display after some long battles. You need give us a filter that turns them on and off. I fight with them a lot even hurt so we still need them just need a way to have a static setting we can toggle. The army selection screen needs to remember last settings each time we go back. Filter is no good if I have to turn on and off after each battle. Same with other selections like attached and unattached. This will fix a lot of the issues we have in crashing in gvg while battling and while sieging. I would also like to suggest a loadable army feature as well. Like a tab screen in current army box where we can in advance choose 8 units of a type and have them loaded as 1 army that can be easily selected and chosen to fight. Having a bunch of these would be awesome that after each battle I can click the tab click next unit of 8 and fight on. This will take some time to come up with a way to display to load and unload etc, but would be cool to have.

    Examples:

    You can test this on your own now and see for yourself. Start with 50 units each type and say 2k rogues then go do some massive battles and sieges. The more you have the worse the crashing is forcing you to refresh and start browser over. Now 1 easy way to show you how the siege bug is caused by this army is set your 8 units but before sieging switch to the unattached filter assuming you don’t have more than 100 units. Then click siege. It sets instant no memory leak and no hang or game crash. Go back try again this time leave the all units filter on and you will crash especially if you have hurt rogues showing.



    Questions or you want to chat hit me up in support tickets as I’m usually banned and waiting to play again. Now knowing this there are ways to use this to you advantage and siege faster even if you don’t crash and I’m not going to sit here and tell everyone all that stuff but knowing this is enough on its own to help make players get around the quirks in this game. You don’t fix it then I suggest you give the mods who monitor my tickets every day more diamonds for all their hard work because I get reported for cheating more than Bill Clinton does.

    Respectfully and in honor of the long lost Mucka Smash,

    JC821
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2017
    Shootskas likes this.
  2. sloppyjoeslayer

    sloppyjoeslayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Worlds:
    Dunarsund
    Maybe you should tell mucka your trick then he wont have to quit. So it's just this that's causing the lag for some players in GvG? So basically thousands of troops and hundreds of sieges then the problems start? And players can work around it?
     
  3. jc821

    jc821 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Mucka just gave up.
    I doubt its the only issue but can tell you with certainty that it makes a huge difference. You want to see for yourself delete down to less tehn a couple hundred troops and you will see a much different game performance wise.
    Just ask any G world player for last 4 years they called me a cheater because I was faster then them in gvg and no one could figure out why.

    JC
     
  4. sloppyjoeslayer

    sloppyjoeslayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Worlds:
    Dunarsund
    But if you have a workaround then you can tell mucka that and he wont have to give up because of it, if that was his main reason that is of course.
     
  5. jc821

    jc821 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    It was not and I have no way to reach him. Players will come and go and the work around should not be needed if inno fixes it.
     
    harbinger956 likes this.
  6. test3r

    test3r Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2012
    Inno ignores programing advice and doesn't reach out to people for help. There are multiple people that use foe that could help inno fix their memory issues, including myself, they do not inquire or have any response. Probably because someone's pride is at stake, or just the simple fact that if your an FOE user, you are beneath the system. Inno has a history of having the game inconvenient and after so many years I believe it is possibly by design. I reached out to inno about these issues as early as 4 years ago.

    They can also combine damaged units by HP to further reduce... but part of the problem with combining the units is that inno would have to make it so your troops selection is evenly distributed across your military buildings which they believe is part of the strategy of the game (its not) or would need to randomize it.

    And I think your wrong to say Adobe killed flash. The merger of macromedia and adobe was a contributor by reducing competition, but the main problem was flashes security issues and Steve jobs attack on adobe and the call for HTML5 to replace flash.

    This game could be re-created in html5 to reduce these issues and make it more future proof.
     
    lemur and jc821 like this.
  7. jc821

    jc821 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Nice post back and thanks; however, I disagree on our opinions with flash and adobe but I bet we both can agree had macromedia continued to develop flash it would be in much better position today.

    JC
     
  8. test3r

    test3r Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2012
    Flash would have been better for a period of time under macromedia... but might have put macromedia out of business and would have been bought anyway. All browser makers conspired to kill flash, and even for awhile flash was excluded from browsers completely. Doesn't matter who owns flash at that point. If it weren't for browsers making exceptions for flash still to this day, flash would have been completely obsolete.
     
  9. jc821

    jc821 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    back
     
  10. tstar99

    tstar99 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    just had a major crash can get to the main page but when I get to worlds it crashes
     
  11. sloppyjoeslayer

    sloppyjoeslayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Worlds:
    Dunarsund
    I just don't understand how this game can have such lag issues while other games that have a lot more happening in real time don't. I mean every game has "lag" but why can I play a game like WoW that's been around for over 15 years with a holy hell crap ton of real time actions happening simultaneously from many players on screen and not get lag but playing GvG on FoE where like virtually nothing is happening, a unit moves, fires, next, and there's this lag? Is it just because it's flash based? Browser? both? If that's the case wouldn't it really take a move away from flash to really solve the issues?
     
  12. jc821

    jc821 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    flash is part of the problem. however you can program around it if you know what your doing.

    JC
     
  13. sloppyjoeslayer

    sloppyjoeslayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Worlds:
    Dunarsund
    Okay but for how long can you get away with programming around it? More expansions coming, more events, more worlds, more features etc. can flash hold up to this? Won't there be some limitation to it if they already haven't reached it?
     
  14. jc821

    jc821 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    They better be working on replacing whole game in html5 soon or they will lose access to a lot of devices. What scares me is the mobile app i bet in some way is built around html5 or a mobile wrapper shell and we know how that went with all the features getting on it.


    JC
     
  15. sloppyjoeslayer

    sloppyjoeslayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Worlds:
    Dunarsund
    Sounds like a good thing to bring up at the next Q&A and ask if they have any plans on doing that.
    https://www.facebook.com/ForgeofEmpires
     
  16. jc821

    jc821 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    I see they still have not fixed this or even tried. Inno do you guys do anything other then quests garbage anymore?
     
  17. graham of daventry

    graham of daventry Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    I would like to take this opportunity to thank Innogames for the new and enjoyable creative quests they have provided us with! Forge on.
     
  18. jc821

    jc821 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    WOOT its a step in the right direction they got rid of the stupid image stroller in flash which will or should make a huge difference but think they could have done more to improve it but maybe they are and this is just the first fix of the system.
    https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.c...rmy-management-performance-improvements.8227/
    Its live in beta now and my testing so far shows it is working however my gvg is running at a crawl inside the battle now. So 1 step forward 2 steps back hopefully its just my browser or something.

    JC
     
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  19. Shootskas

    Shootskas Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2017
    So the best way to keep the system from crashing during a siege is to set the filter on unattached or just whatever filter you use that shows the least amount of troops?
     

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