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[Question] GvG

Fine by me, but do not claim GvG is the best part of the game. It is only the best part for you cause you can control it. There is no difference with Guilds controlling GBG.



Do you, or do you not prevent others to play what you think is the best part of the game, only for your own benefit? Wouldn't it be much more exciting to have more fights in the best part of the game if you did not block those sectors?
Oh, ok... I'll make sure to do what you say, since there's no censoring. I won't say GVG is the best since you are telling me I'm not allowed.

To answer your question - we fight on almost every map every night (not always on the IA map though).
 

Taeshire

Member
Fine by me, but do not claim GvG is the best part of the game. It is only the best part for you cause you can control it. There is no difference with Guilds controlling GBG.



Do you, or do you not prevent others to play what you think is the best part of the game, only for your own benefit? Wouldn't it be much more exciting to have more fights in the best part of the game if you did not block those sectors?

We are the strongest guild in K and have been for 639 days, we can't control the whole map in any age even with the help of another guild. it's just not economically viable. The more sectors you have in an age, the more goods it costs, - it gets crazy expensive with a lot of sectors. - That's a major difference between GvG and GbG.

Even on our maps there are lots of sectors other guilds can play on, if we want those sectors we will take them, but we have to drop sectors behind us to make sure it remains affordable within the guild treasury. (Treasury management is a critical element of GVG strategy). This in turn leaves sectors for others to play with.

Seriously Agent - do some research, ask some of the GVG experts (not me, I don't fit into that category), learn the intricacies of GvG before you dismiss it as devoid of players interest or Inno's attention.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
Oh, ok... I'll make sure to do what you say, since there's no censoring. I won't say GVG is the best since you are telling me I'm not allowed.

To answer your question - we fight on almost every map every night (not always on the IA map though).


You are allowed to say GvG is the best. Same as I am allowed to differ with your opinion. Don't try to put words in my mouth I did not use. I also never asked you what maps you fight. Why would I? To me that is not relevant at all.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
Even on our maps there are lots of sectors other guilds can play on, if we want those sectors we will take them, but we have to drop sectors behind us to make sure it remains affordable within the guild treasury. (Treasury management is a critical element of GVG strategy).

And that is not a formula to dominate the map?
 

Graviton

Well-Known Member
I wasn't going to post in this thread again, but then I was quoted...

I'm not going to go on about the significance of the five percent thing (except for one point below where I was deliberately misquoted).

Not necessarily directed at you in particular...
For people to come on here asking for Inno to remove a game feature that a segment of users love so much, is selfish. It doesn't hurt you for the feature to be there - and Inno hasn't talked about removing it - so why keep trolling everyone?

I'm not the one trolling here, I was discussing the thread topic. I also never asked Inno to remove anything. So exactly what are you talking about?

Actually - very few companies would willingly give up 5% of their business.

I missed the part where I said Inno would willingly give up 5% of its business. The point was that Inno would likely not be hurt by losing five percent of active FoE players.

So.. what we should be asking you is "Do you imagine Inno doesn't know any of this?"

What a coincidence! I also posed that question, in this very thread. And yet we still have posters assuming Inno doesn't.

While you guys sit here and try to convince us that GVG isn't worth anything to them and that we aren't worth anything to Inno, they've continued to keep it around. Hmmm.

But they haven't, and won't, export it to other platforms nor support it with software updates and changes. Hmmm. I'm sure you're right: it's probably not costing them much to keep the lights on, although if what they've stated recently about server capacity is true then that might not be true for much longer.

Considering none of you have stopped talking about him... and Agent complained about him being an influencer.... apparently everyone cares *shrug*.

Everyone gets their hackles up when somebody (and now multiple somebodies) makes a forum account just to tell forum participants they can't possibly understand the game 'cause they're on the game forum. Imagine that.
 
Even as a forum mod, your view of the FOE player base is far more narrow than mine. My videos get more views and interaction than the majority of the stuff posted here and include players from regions all of the world instead of being limited to only the US
So cause I am a forum mod here I am limited to only the US? Interesting.

This is the "US" server, if I'm not mistaken. Pretty straight forward. Pat is on a Worldwide platform. You can be salty about it, or understand there is a difference in audience.

In fact, part of why my surveys should be taking note of is the diversity of players included. A survey of your guild would be a very limited group of mostly like-minded players. Mine included players from around the world with all kinds of different playstyles (including players that have been playing less than 3 weeks and are total newbies and players that have been playing more than 6 years. etc). It's a much better sample than anything you have access to.
You might do some research on polling. 700 to 1000 is plenty to give a margin of error within a 1-2%. That deviation wouldn't significantly change the meaning of my results. Yes, the fact that they were on youtube does make the poll less random - players on youtube are likely to be more engaged in the game; therefore, adding players that aren't on youtube would likely include a larger segment of casual/inactive players that aren't involved with all of the features like gbg/gvg nor are they as likely to be spending $ on the game. If anything, my results likely skew toward more active and engaged players than what a perfectly random sample would give.
You are what is referred to as an influencer. That makes the results of your surveys rather predictable. It's like looking for Lakers fans in LA in my opinion.

So - Forge Fans shouldn't be surveyed? Hmm. Seems suspect to me - sort of limits your survey pool, ya know?

It really makes you look out of touch and more like a bully than a contributor trying to develop the community.
Am I? Show me where you get that knowledge that I am out of touch.

Well... frankly, you kinda self identified here, honestly. Pat didn't name you.

But... since you asked...

Here is a question- I know GvG isn’t coming to mobile, but what is the reasoning? GvG is probably the funnest part of the game, and mobile players are missing out.
Reasoning has been given with the introduction of GBG. Look it up.

Might be more helpful to just post the link next time - sorta set the negative tone here back in the beginning IMO.

Smart businesses know how to segment their audience and cater to the ones that affect the bottom line. You don't have a vested interest in the balance and competitive features of the game because you're so far removed as casual players. The top 250-500 most active/competitive players on each server are experiencing the game in a completely different way that you really don't understand. (Some have more fights in 2 weeks than you have in several years of play - literally impossible for you to compare that experience).
I don't? Can you enlighten me why?

I'm sure he'll get right on that considering you've been so receptive.

Sadly this has always been the case (with any web game), the more active you are in the forum - whether it be as a mod or a participant - has absolutely no relevance to how successfully you can play the game, understand the game mechanics or indeed understand what players across a broad spectrum want, like and dislike from the game.

It's frustrating that the forum "influencers" seem so out of touch with the game, or what players actually want from the game. Maybe more time spent playing at a higher level, getting "good at the game" and less time foruming might be an idea?
Could it be that both is possible? What is the norm for being "good at the game" according to you?

That's specifically what he said... "has absolutely no relevance" which means, it's not cause and effect.


There is no censorship on this forum. Everyone is free to speak his mind as long as it is within forum rules, so you do not have to worry about iPenguinPat not being allowed an active voice. Admirable as it is that his guildmembers are showing up for support, there is no need for it.

So... As some of the most active GVGers on Korch - you don't think there's a need for them to show up and discuss things on the GVG forum thread? I guess you guys have all the insight and opinions that are "needed". Certainly wouldn't want to add a few more people into the conversation... would we?

Again you insinuate that players visiting the forum do not "actually" play the game. Only you and your guildmembers do.

Not only is this a misrepresentation of what was said. But you are following it up by saying Tae said something that he did not. Please try to stick to facts.

I am the one you are convinced does not play or know the game.

And again here, he said that forum participation "has absolutely no relevance to how successfully you can play the game". Now, you might self identify with what he said, but at the end of the day, he neither named you, nor said it made those people bad players.


You are allowed to say GvG is the best. Same as I am allowed to differ with your opinion. Don't try to put words in my mouth I did not use.
Fine by me, but do not claim GvG is the best part of the game.

Actually - you sorta did say that - word for word.

I also never asked you what maps you fight. Why would I? To me that is not relevant at all.
Do you, or do you not prevent others to play what you think is the best part of the game, only for your own benefit? Wouldn't it be much more exciting to have more fights in the best part of the game if you did not block those sectors?

Well.... because you asked me why we don't let other guilds GVG, you did inadvertently ask me about what maps we fight on... but I digress for now.


I'll go ahead and wrap this up here. I can only take in so much negativity at once. :)
 

Taeshire

Member
And that is not a formula to dominate the map?
No not even close, it's the strength of our guild and the strength of the players in the guild, but most importantly the tactical strength of our leaders that allows us to dominate the maps we want to dominate.

Seriously, do the research - you really do need to learn about GvG before you continue to dismiss it.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
28% of Forgers don't participate. My math was correct.
100% of Forge. 33% have access. 5% participate. 28% Don't.

You can nitpick - But I said something specific.
No. Your math skills suck. JBG was correct. Of those players who can access GvG, 85% of them don't ever play GvG. It ain't nitpicking when you're 100% wrong in your math.

@iPenguinPat, how about a poll about how many GvG players would continue to play if Inno removed GvG from guild ranking? If the majority says they play GBG for the rewards, let's see what the majority says about why they GvG?
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
1. Going with this stat, at most, 33% then have access to GvG.
2. 5% of people participate in GvG, so only 28% of people that have access, don't participate.
28% of Forgers don't participate. My math was correct.
100% of Forge. 33% have access. 5% participate. 28% Don't.

You can nitpick - But I said something specific.
Ok, then let me explain why it’s 15% and not 28%


If 5% of all players play GvG, that’s both desktop and mobile
If only 33% play on desktop then we need to find how big of a number 5% is in relation to 33%, because that’ll tell us how many that have access are bothering to play GvG

To find a percentage of a number you need to divide the two numbers by each other, then multiply by 100. So if we need to find 5% of 33% we divide 5 by 33

(5/33)x100 = 15.1515*

So roughly 84.84% (Desktop users) don’t play GvG


I can see what you did to get to 28%, but if you're doing 33 - 5 you're not finding the percentage of Desktop users that play GvG, you're just reducing the amount of Desktop users by 5%
 
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Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
28% of Forgers don't participate. My math was correct.
100% of Forge. 33% have access. 5% participate. 28% Don't.

You can nitpick - But I said something specific.
LOL.
28% of active players have access but don't participate. 95% of active players don't participate. 85% of players with access don't participate. Apparently math and percentages aren't your strong suit.

And the best part of your faulty math is that you use it differently for the GBG percentages. LOL
 

grouchy grampa

New Member
I'm just an old guy that started playing under old scoring system . Really love the game and GVG . I am not a fan of GBG. I think it has made people greedy and took away the camaraderie that people used to love so much. Now it looks like the forum is mods vs players. I will be here as long as there is GVG but if it goes well then so do I. Guess world of warships gold account is in my future
 

iPenguinPat

Well-Known Member
You're a little off with your math skills here. I'll break it down for you. Let's go with 100 players. 33 of them have access to GvG. Only 5 of them participate in GvG. That leaves 28 of the 33 that have access that don't participate. 28 of 33 players is 85%. (Actually 84.848484...%, but I rounded it.) So 85% of the players with access to GvG don't participate. That means that only 15% of players with access to GvG participate in it.
Ok, then let me explain why it’s 15% and not 28%


If 5% of all players play GvG, that’s both desktop and mobile
If only 33% play on desktop then we need to find how big of a number 5% is in relation to 33%, because that’ll tell us how many that have access are bothering to play GvG

To find a percentage of a number you need to divide the two numbers by each other, then multiply by 100. So if we need to find 5% of 33% we divide 5 by 33

(5/33)x100 = 15.1515*

So roughly 84.84% (Desktop users) don’t play GvG


I can see what you did to get to 28%, but if you're doing 33 - 5 you're not finding the percentage of Desktop users that play GvG, you're just reducing the amount of Desktop users by 5%
LOL.
28% of active players have access but don't participate. 95% of active players don't participate. 85% of players with access don't participate. Apparently math and percentages aren't your strong suit.

And the best part of your faulty math is that you use it differently for the GBG percentages. LOL

Q: 100% of players play Forge. Of those players, 33% are on browser and can access GVG. 5% of all players GVG. What percent of players can GVG AND do not GVG?

A: 28% of all players both can access and do not GVG.

The pie chart makes it really easy to understand.

If you answered 5 / 33 = 15.151515% (repeating of course), you got the wrong answer to the question. #SATPrepTeacherInCollege


meta-chart (1).jpegmeta-chart (3).jpeg
 
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iPenguinPat

Well-Known Member
If pure lack of usage is a reason to remove something, can we also please remove the forums?

download (1).png

There's already customer support. The Wiki's are also available. Not really sure what the forums are actually for except trolling? Feedback and announcements don't require forums.,

It's not even a very good place to go to get advice or help. You get beauties like this one: https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com...1-85-vs-1-92-vs-2-0-threads.41611/post-354828

Screenshot (14).png
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
I find it amusing that you harp on the mod's actually participating on the forum. The only people trying to censure others is you and yours. The mods get an opinion they aren't anything but volunteer players that contribute their time to this forum.

Their opinions don't mean anything more or less than ours do. And yeah I find that fellow's posts to be less than ideal frequently but he's not breaking the rules nor is that really trolling someone. Less than helpful from my perspective but it is the actual answer to most of the question.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
Really love the game and GVG . I am not a fan of GBG.
For many of us it's not a case of GvG against GBG. I personally wouldn't care if they both disappeared from the game. I also don't really care if they both stay in the game. What I do care about is players continually coming to the Forum under the mistaken impression that the larger player base shares their love of a particular game feature. They don't.
Now it looks like the forum is mods vs players.
Ummm, no. Most of the people speaking up for the sad truth about GvG are not mods. It's more accurate to say it is GvGers vs non-GvGers, although even that isn't quite right. More like dedicated GvGers vs a coalition of convenience between casual/occasional GvGers and non-GvGers. Of course, if you only come to the Forum occasionally to complain about your pet game feature, your perception of Forum dynamics is sorely lacking.
I will be here as long as there is GVG but if it goes well then so do I.
That's sad, as GvG is such a small portion of the game, but most of us would wish you well if you left.
 
Don't know what your point is here. Are you trying to support the posts you're quoting, or do you mistakenly think that your charts refute basic math and percentage truths?
You obviously don't understand math or statistics. Just because you can convert the number to another statistic, doesn't make another statistic wrong. *Facepalm*

I think I'm losing braincells in this conversation....
 

PASSINGTHRU

New Member
Reasoning has been given with the introduction of GBG. Look it up.
Reasoning has been given with the introduction of GBG. Look it up.
Sorry new to forums, can you please post a link or explain the "reasoning". Still trying to learn to navigate forums and not sure I have weeks to dedicate searching the archives to find the answer to the question. However I would appreciate your assistance in this matter. Thanks in advance.
 
I have understood math and percentages this simple since I was in grade school back in the '60s. And a statistic is wrong when you misapply/mislabel it. Saying that 28% of any player group does not participate in GvG is simply mathematically incorrect. It is correct to say that 28% of active players have access to GvG but do not participate in it. It is incorrect to say that 28% of players with access don't participate. If you're talking only about the players who have access, the correct percentage of non-participants is 85% and the correct percentage of participants is 15%. And since the figure for all active players that participate in GvG is 5%, that means that 95% of all active players don't participate in GvG either by choice (28%) or through lack of access (67%)Keep in mind, also, when talking about these statistics that they are from Inno's statements that were published before GE, Cultural Settlements and GBG, so the percentage of participants in GvG is most likely lower now.

As far as brain cells, if you still don't understand the simple math of these percentages, then they must have been lost prior to participating in this conversation. :)
I understand the conversion you made - which is... what percentage of people gvg that have access and do it and the amount that have access and don't do it. That is a different statistic than I was giving.
 
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Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
2. 5% of people participate in GvG, so only 28% of people that have access, don't participate.
This is what you said and it is demonstrably incorrect.
Total active players = 100%
Active players with access = 33%
Active players without access = 67%
Total active players with and without access = 100%
Active players who participate = 5%
Active players who don't participate = 95%
Total active players who do or don't participate = 100%
Now we switch to a different overall group. We only include players who have access.
Players with access = 100%
Players with access who participate = 15%
Players with access who don't participate = 85%
Total players with access who do or don't participate = 100%
Now let's use a group of players to illustrate this. Take a total group of 100 active players. Now we'll break down that group of 100 players into the above percentages.
Total active players = 100
Active players with access = 33
Active players without access = 67
Active players who participate = 5
Active players who don't participate = 95
Active players with access who participate = 5 (still)
Active players with access who don't participate = 28 (But not 28% of players with access, 28% of all active players.)
28 players with access out of 33 overall with access is 85%, not 28%.
And this isn't nitpicking, it's simply correcting an incorrect statement.
 
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