[FAQ] Help, I am being plundered!

[DeletedUser34480]

You're right those stupid devs had no idea what they were doing

It is rarely devs.
Devs do their job, then a smart ass manager comes up with half-baked idea and ruins the whole thing.

 

[DeletedUser34480]

it absolutely is part of the original design (unless you claim to know better than the guy who actually designed this game.)

A conversation you posted doesn't prove it.
I am, personally, pretty sure that at some point management got greedy and let the genie out of the bottle. (by letting a player having something that, technically, doesn't exist. A twisted time machine, of sort).

 

[DeletedUser35475]

okay not sure what your point is, they were originally designed so you can get them above your age, it's really that simple.

You mean they went through all the trouble to do the ages etc then decided to design in a way around them?

I think it came about because of the things they wanted to have in the game to make it successful, social interaction like friends, a market place to trade all the cool goods in, aiding friends and neighbors and getting blue prints as a reward. If those are must haves in the game design, and I think they are part of the must haves along with the combat, then the ability to trade up for goods, to get advanced prints etc is un-avoidable, it's a side effect of what you need to make a game like this a success.

How could you have a market to trade for goods you need to advance through an age and prevent people from trading up? What would be the point of the market if you could only trade for goods in your age but the tech required goods from past ages also? You could limit trading to only the age above and below but that would just make the process of getting high level goods longer not stop it. You could limit the trade to 2:1 maximum but again that doesn't stop it. So you let it slide and allow it. So people get advanced goods. They may or may not have considered that people would sell them but since they are executed by trading and donating again they could not prevent it and still keep the things that make the game a success.

Same with prints, if you must have this in the game and it works based on the building level you aid people will get advanced prints. You could limit it by only letting you have friends in the same age but that would ruin the social aspect that is a must have for the game.

Games like this require a certain amount of social interaction to be successful. I don't think the GB above age was in the design of the game, they just were an unintended consequences of how the game they wanted to create was designed. They don't ruin the game because you can choose to do it or not, in fact they make it more enjoyable to some people which is the whole goal of the game.

 

[DeletedUser31440]

@True592 I had a more intelligent conversation with a drunk that just got out of jail while smoking a cigarette in the alley behind my work today than this one.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

You mean they went through all the trouble to do the ages etc then decided to design in a way around them?

I'm not sure what you're asking. I can tell you only what I have as I was not part of the design team. They designed the game with ages yes, then later they came out with GB's yes, when they came out with GB's they allowed players to build GB's that were ahead of their age as shown by the answer given by the lead game designer at the time. I'm not sure there's any difficulty in understanding that is there?

I don't think the GB above age was in the design of the game, they just were an unintended consequences of how the game they wanted to create was designed.

Well, that's a nice speculation, okay.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

You mean they went through all the trouble to do the ages etc then decided to design in a way around them?

I think it came about because of the things they wanted to have in the game to make it successful, social interaction like friends, a market place to trade all the cool goods in, aiding friends and neighbors and getting blue prints as a reward. If those are must haves in the game design, and I think they are part of the must haves along with the combat, then the ability to trade up for goods, to get advanced prints etc is un-avoidable, it's a side effect of what you need to make a game like this a success.

How could you have a market to trade for goods you need to advance through an age and prevent people from trading up? What would be the point of the market if you could only trade for goods in your age but the tech required goods from past ages also? You could limit trading to only the age above and below but that would just make the process of getting high level goods longer not stop it. You could limit the trade to 2:1 maximum but again that doesn't stop it. So you let it slide and allow it. So people get advanced goods. They may or may not have considered that people would sell them but since they are executed by trading and donating again they could not prevent it and still keep the things that make the game a success.

Same with prints, if you must have this in the game and it works based on the building level you aid people will get advanced prints. You could limit it by only letting you have friends in the same age but that would ruin the social aspect that is a must have for the game.

Games like this require a certain amount of social interaction to be successful. I don't think the GB above age was in the design of the game, they just were an unintended consequences of how the game they wanted to create was designed. They don't ruin the game because you can choose to do it or not, in fact they make it more enjoyable to some people which is the whole goal of the game.

Guess you know best.

I'd like to try the games you have worked on designing. What are they called?

Please. List them here.

 

[DeletedUser35475]

Please. List them here.

You want me to list the games you designed? Ok I'll take a stab. They are below.

 

[DeletedUser35475]

I'm not sure what you're asking. I can tell you only what I have as I was not part of the design team. They designed the game with ages yes, then later they came out with GB's yes, when they came out with GB's they allowed players to build GB's that were ahead of their age as shown by the answer given by the lead game designer at the time. I'm not sure there's any difficulty in understanding that is there?


Well, that's a nice speculation, okay.

Of course it is speculation, I wasn't there but I have been involved in the design of products.

There are certain things that have become 'standards' in a 4X game, which this is a variation of only it's 3X. You need a tech tree, you need game 'currency', you need some sort of military option, you need to offer a reason to advance, it needs to be fun etc. In addition free games need to offer some sort of social interaction to attract players. So the game is designed to have these things because without them it would probably flop. Now the way it is designed also allows for people to jump ahead and move up in a way not originally intended and there is no way to stop it without eliminating some of the required features. This 'jumping ahead' doesn't hurt the original design and doesn't hurt game play, in fact you think some people will like it, so you leave it in. It wasn't what you designed but it doesn't damage the product so you don't spend any more time trying to eliminate it as there are other things that need to be done.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

Of course it is speculation, I wasn't there but I have been involved in the design of products.

There are certain things that have become 'standards' in a 4X game, which this is a variation of only it's 3X. You need a tech tree, you need game 'currency', you need some sort of military option, you need to offer a reason to advance, it needs to be fun etc. In addition free games need to offer some sort of social interaction to attract players. So the game is designed to have these things because without them it would probably flop. Now the way it is designed also allows for people to jump ahead and move up in a way not originally intended and there is no way to stop it without eliminating some of the required features. This 'jumping ahead' doesn't hurt the original design and doesn't hurt game play, in fact you think some people will like it, so you leave it in. It wasn't what you designed but it doesn't damage the product so you don't spend any more time trying to eliminate it as there are other things that need to be done.

Okay, well I speculate that when they made GB's available they knew full well they designed them with the intent of letting players get GB's of other ages above their own age and the reason why I think that is because they could have simply locked players out of the ability to build them until they reach that age corresponding to the age of the GB, certainly they would have been able to code for that if they wanted. I also believe that to be the case because when the lead game designer responded he didn't say anything to the effect it was meant to be any other way but that. You seem to be reaching for anything that might help you in the fact that you simply don't like the game design. That is completely unnecessary, if you don't like it just say you don't like it and make a proposal they way you would like it, what is the point in going through all this silliness about how you think something could have been.

 

[DeletedUser34480]

@True592 I had a more intelligent conversation with a drunk that just got out of jail

What stopped you from staying on that familiar to your level?

 

[DeletedUser34480]

Man, it is clear as day, they were hoping to get extra money by letting people get something from later ages. I'm sure they did. But, by letting it, they've hurt it really bad, probably, to the point of no return.

 

[DeletedUser31440]

Man, it is clear as day, they were hoping to get extra money by letting people get something from later ages. I'm sure they did. But, by letting it, they've hurt it really bad, probably, to the point of no return.

Day of the point of no return: Dec 4, 2012

Edit: Put Announcement date initially

 

[Volodya]

You mean they went through all the trouble to do the ages etc then decided to design in a way around them?

I think it came about because of the things they wanted to have in the game to make it successful, social interaction like friends, a market place to trade all the cool goods in, aiding friends and neighbors and getting blue prints as a reward. If those are must haves in the game design, and I think they are part of the must haves along with the combat, then the ability to trade up for goods, to get advanced prints etc is un-avoidable, it's a side effect of what you need to make a game like this a success.

How could you have a market to trade for goods you need to advance through an age and prevent people from trading up? What would be the point of the market if you could only trade for goods in your age but the tech required goods from past ages also? You could limit trading to only the age above and below but that would just make the process of getting high level goods longer not stop it. You could limit the trade to 2:1 maximum but again that doesn't stop it. So you let it slide and allow it. So people get advanced goods. They may or may not have considered that people would sell them but since they are executed by trading and donating again they could not prevent it and still keep the things that make the game a success.

Same with prints, if you must have this in the game and it works based on the building level you aid people will get advanced prints. You could limit it by only letting you have friends in the same age but that would ruin the social aspect that is a must have for the game.

Games like this require a certain amount of social interaction to be successful. I don't think the GB above age was in the design of the game, they just were an unintended consequences of how the game they wanted to create was designed. They don't ruin the game because you can choose to do it or not, in fact they make it more enjoyable to some people which is the whole goal of the game.

Patently, they could've allowed the free accumulation of advanced age goods and prints, but required players to advance into the appropriate age before actually constructing the gb in question. That would have permitted the social interaction you describe while restricting gbs to their "proper" age. They chose to implement the current system, unless you want to argue they simply couldn't think of any alternatives.

 

[DeletedUser35475]

Okay, well I speculate that when they made GB's available they knew full well they designed them with the intent of letting players get GB's of other ages above their own age and the reason why I think that is because they could have simply locked players out of the ability to build them until they reach that age corresponding to the age of the GB, certainly they would have been able to code for that if they wanted. I also believe that to be the case because when the lead game designer responded he didn't say anything to the effect it was meant to be any other way but that. You seem to be reaching for anything that might help you in the fact that you simply don't like the game design. That is completely unnecessary, if you don't like it just say you don't like it and make a proposal they way you would like it, what is the point in going through all this silliness about how you think something could have been.

The lead designer didn't say anything more than you can get GB beyond their age.

What makes you think I want the ability removed? I don't like it personally and won't do it but if other want to do it, it doesn't affect my game play.

 

[DeletedUser35475]

Patently, they could've allowed the free accumulation of advanced age goods and prints, but required players to advance into the appropriate age before actually constructing the gb in question. That would have permitted the social interaction you describe while restricting gbs to their "proper" age. They chose to implement the current system, unless you want to argue they simply couldn't think of any alternatives.

Perhaps they could have but perhaps they decided to let it slide because some of the designers liked the idea and they let it slide.

To say they went through all the trouble of designing the tech tree, which required a lot of work, and placing the goods and GB in a specific age then decided to deliberately allow a way around it at the same time seems unlikely.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

The lead designer didn't say anything more than you can get GB beyond their age.

What makes you think I want the ability removed? I don't like it personally and won't do it but if other want to do it, it doesn't affect my game play.

Okay I take that back as usually it's people who don't like it that try to argue against it making truth claims that aren't based in any truth like the Prime Directive List. Your claim was a bit different not in that you are using it to support any change, rather you merely asserted

The average player plays the game as it was designed...

i.e. that GB's higher than your current age were not meant to be built until you reach that age which you even later outright stated

The game is not designed to have people get GB's above their age...

But as we've discovered through this back and forth "the design" that can only be known to us is when they introduced GB's players were in fact allowed to get GB's ahead of their age and the lead game designer at the time in fact said as much, the only thing one can logically infer from these two known facts is that was the design. You even admitted later you're merely speculating and changed your initial assertions to speculative by qualifying with "I think..."

I think it came about...

Of course it is speculation...

So your original claim is in fact not true given what we know e.g. players purposely not building GB's ahead of their age are not in fact playing the game as designed, they're merely ignoring the design they could use that's available to them, conversely players who do build GB's of ages higher than their age are in fact playing the game as designed given what we know as fact.

Now we can play pretend like we were at the meeting when GB's were thought up and maybe someone mentioned in that meeting they shouldn't be designed that way or maybe we can pretend it wasn't designed that way but somehow a major bug happened which they couldn't fix so they just didn't say anything or whatever scenario using other off topic things but I think we both are old enough to not play pretend anymore like that, well except when playing the game itself, but when it comes to truth claims about real life it's best to just go by what is known.

 

[Salsuero]

St Basil is available in LMA. 2 attack GB's are available before it so it is more likely those will be built and leveled to some degree before you can even think about getting a defensive building.

You can think about it at any time you choose. More likely is only true if you choose to do so. You can build whatever you want whenever you want. I suggest building one over the others if you want better defense. I don't care what actually gets chosen by "average" players. I'm speaking to folks who wish to break that mold.

I suspect it was like that in previous hoods and will be the same in future hoods until I get near the end eras.

That's not proof. That's a guess.

The game is not designed to have people get GB's above their age.

That statement is demonstrably wrong.

Why do you think they went through all the trouble of creating the different ages, the goods and assigning GB's to an age if the design was to have people just but the goods, get a print and build a GB whenever they wanted?

Interest and challenge. Why are you allowed to forgo goods collection by paying diamonds? Why are you allowed to collect prints for above age GBs?

Just because it wasn't designed for it doesn't mean it is 'wrong' to do it, it is like an unintended benefit.

Allowing diamonds to purchase the GB's goods and missing prints is by design.

For example I have used an electric boat motor to mix 100 gallons of drinks to sell at festivals. It's not what it is designed for but it works quite well at the task.

Does the manufacturer put a picture of doing that on the box it comes in? No? Do they put it on home shopping networks demonstrating this bonus "side effect" of owning it? No? Inno allows you to trade for higher age goods. They allow you to earn prints. They allow you to spend diamonds. It's a feature, not a bug.

From what I have seen most people do not have the Arc before the age it is available. I just looked through one of my IND hoods and 13 out of 74 people have the Arc, so ~17%. From what I have seen most people play it as designed, moving through the ages and building when the GB and goods become available through standard buildings.

LOL

 

[Salsuero]

You mean they went through all the trouble to do the ages etc then decided to design in a way around them?

Yes.

I think it came about because of the things they wanted to have in the game to make it successful, social interaction like friends, a market place to trade all the cool goods in, aiding friends and neighbors and getting blue prints as a reward. If those are must haves in the game design, and I think they are part of the must haves along with the combat, then the ability to trade up for goods, to get advanced prints etc is un-avoidable, it's a side effect of what you need to make a game like this a success.

What you think is irrelevant. The fact remains... they allow you to do these things by design, not accidentally.

You could limit trading to only the age above and below but that would just make the process of getting high level goods longer not stop it.

Exactly. They didn't do that. They could have... slower is a design choice too.

You could limit the trade to 2:1 maximum but again that doesn't stop it.

It is limited to 2:1.

Same with prints, if you must have this in the game and it works based on the building level you aid people will get advanced prints. You could limit it by only letting you have friends in the same age but that would ruin the social aspect that is a must have for the game.

You could also design the game to allow collection, but not use of said prints. That's a design element they chose not to implement.

I don't think the GB above age was in the design of the game, they just were an unintended consequences of how the game they wanted to create was designed.

Did they design the Dynamic Tower by accident? Because they released it in the Tomorrow Era and allow you to get goods from any era of a building you aid. That is an explicit design choice. They expect you to use it on higher age buildings. There is ZERO chance that they sat in a room and said... "nah, no one would do that." They could have designed it to be your age only, like so many other goods rewards. They purposely chose to give you goods that you choose, regardless of whether you choose a higher, same, or lower age good.

in a way not originally intended

You should stop saying this as you weren't in the room when the game was designed. Speculation does not mean fact.

if other want to do it, it doesn't affect my game play.

Pretty sure that's also demonstrably false.

To say they went through all the trouble of designing the tech tree, which required a lot of work, and placing the goods and GB in a specific age then decided to deliberately allow a way around it at the same time seems unlikely.

To you. I find it more than likely... I find it actual.

 

[DeletedUser]

For example I have used an electric boat motor to mix 100 gallons of drinks to sell at festivals. It's not what it is designed for but it works quite well at the task.

Remind me never to buy drinks at a festival ever again. I don't think the health department would approve of this method.

 

[DeletedUser30900]

you guys can never defeat these two since they can always change the objects that are being discussed. stop wasting your time to beat them with logic. they don't do logic