DeletedUser
Mostly through using buildings that can't be plundered. Why do you think I avoid most sets like the plague?
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DeletedUser30900
That makes your opinion on those set building less valuable. Majority of the players have at least 1 collection time per day and set buildings are way better for them.
DeletedUser
I don't think so. I have multiple collection times per day. However, my independence from sets means I am not tied to specific times. I control my game, the game doesn't control me.
Algona
Well-Known Member
i didn't even try to read past the underscored line.
You fropped a ginormous pile of dooky and instead of cleaning up that mess you drop another ginormous pile of dooky? Yeesh. Good thing i got a pair of boots for the barnyard.
grandmaster ubero
New Member
What irony. You are the one dropping more than anyone else here. LOL
You drop in here just to entertain us with insults?
You drop in here just to entertain us with insults?
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Algona
Well-Known Member
That and to get my jollies. I take immense satisfaction in telling people like you, who I know won't believe me, exactly the truth that will help them most.
In your case it's easy. No one would go to the effort you did if you didn't want someone somewhere to benefit and hopefully say thank you.
I told you exactly how to make that useless pile something that would get you what you want.
But because you won't listen, you'll bumble along worrying about what I have to say, wasting your time thinking up clever things to say, and not fixing your mistake. Happens all the time.
My deepest appreciation for your cooperation.
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Emberguard
Well-Known Member
Maybe my opinion will change with time, but for me I don't care if my sets get plundered. The individual pieces are so numerous that it doesn't matter if some are taken. Also the most valuable bits are protected by All Age status
Emberguard
Well-Known Member
Now you've got me real curious as to what they wrote.....
wow. That's a lot of text. But too late, you got me curious
TL;DR version:
- Thread is for everyone
- People like getting back at or spiting the plunderers (even if the method of "getting back at" only hurts the one being plundered)
- Even if it's repeating stuff it could still be of use as people won't read the whole thread
- They really don't like being criticized on how to post
Algona
Well-Known Member
Are you referring to the response to me or the original post?
Fair warning! This one is, well, really big:
Emberguard
Well-Known Member
The response to you
Whitedovesign
New Member
I'm a plunderer. I fight often, and I don't show up without a plan. This game is based on Medieval Times. You are the King or Queen of your city. Whining to other neighbor Kings or Queens doesn't normally help you, because it is a game based on Attack, Plunder the Spoils of the city you beat, and go back to the next Neighbor and do it again. That is a foundation of the game. Once you accept that, you build your city to withstand attack. How? defense Great Buildings, WatchFires, Rural Flames, Tavern Bonuses for Defense, Inventory DEFENSE percentage bottles, SPECIAL EVENT buildings. All of those methods work. DO NOT ADVANCE too quickly through the ages. It takes time to build a city. What is your hurry? I can tell you there is no pot of gold at the end of the game, there is just more game. So when you move slow, you build your friends list. Those friends will help trade FP's to build your Great Buildings. Setup swaps. Get into a GUILD that is active. How will you know? I have been in three GUILDS. First one blew up due to disagreements, second GUILD had a dictator leader but I learn a lot from those players and then I joined the one I am in now where we have a co-operative 10 LEADER GUILD, like a board of directors for the GUILD and decisions are hammered out and implemented for everyone. As an example, we have a rule. You can not PROFIT from a GUILDMATE, unless it happens through swaps threads. Rational is, why would you best/take from your GUILDMATE? So all players MUST place their GB ARC bonus when helping another GUILDMATE. Notice I said ARC BONUS and not 1.9%. Why? because it could be more than 1.9%
So in summary:
1) Plundering is part of this game. INNO has other games that don't include this element and if it bothers you play them instead.
2) Slow down. What is your rush? This is not like the game station games where you are trying to get to level 4000 to be on some leader board. Take time to build your city. Big hint: Look at advanced players. See what Great BUILDINGS they have, where their roads run, what special buildings they have, and how they are placed. There is no 1 right solution but there are many solutions to build your city.
3) Do not be upset when someone plunders you. Want to learn something about fighting? Watch the replay. Watch it again. Watch it once more. Read what each troop has as a profile for attack and defense. Ex. Gains Attack on Hills. Gains defense in bushes. Learn that and use those troops for their skills.
4) Find yourself a GREAT GUILD. Don't settle for easy swap, or AID/MOTIVATE GUILDS. If there is no advise flowing from leadership in that GUILD at least once a day, max every two days, find another GUILD. You may need to look in that GUILDS forum. Sometimes repeat questions have great answers in there. As you might realize I maintain our GUILD FORUM because I believe if I grow you and your city, you help us as a GUILD.
5) Spend Money, real money on Diamonds. I don't work for INNOGAMES, but I will tell you if you don't spend it, you will lose. You can play this game for free but why? Everyone I know has money issues but if you set a budget based on the enjoyment you are having, spend only that money. Ex. Entertainment budget for eating out at a restaurant per month might be $150-$200. I'm not telling you not to go out, I am suggesting you cut one visit out and buy DIAMONDS for this game and use them. That is exactly what I did. You might argue that you don't want to use real money to play a game. Then the question becomes, should you be playing THIS GAME? I play hockey. Costs me about $400 a season. Afterward I go to a bar which costs me about $50 per week. I drove my car to hockey and I am responsible when I beverage and I drive home using gas in my car. That is my cost for playing Hockey.
6) Try to remember what Medieval Times was like. Unlike today, where everyone must own a chainsaw if he is going to cut down trees, back in the day, people helped each other. Farmers, especially got together to help each other harvest crops, birth live stock, deal with illness. Do the same in this game. Work with other people to support your city. You make goods of one kind, and someone else makes goods that are different based on your cities BOOST from the Continental Map where you are conquering land. TRADE the goods. Want better goods with a better player in your HOOD, offer FP's for their higher age GOODS. Why not? You can then build newer Great BUILDINGS ahead of others in your age, and your powerful HOOD player is not likely to plunder you since they are now a TRADING PARTNER, just like in the real world.
Just a few helpful game tips.
So in summary:
1) Plundering is part of this game. INNO has other games that don't include this element and if it bothers you play them instead.
2) Slow down. What is your rush? This is not like the game station games where you are trying to get to level 4000 to be on some leader board. Take time to build your city. Big hint: Look at advanced players. See what Great BUILDINGS they have, where their roads run, what special buildings they have, and how they are placed. There is no 1 right solution but there are many solutions to build your city.
3) Do not be upset when someone plunders you. Want to learn something about fighting? Watch the replay. Watch it again. Watch it once more. Read what each troop has as a profile for attack and defense. Ex. Gains Attack on Hills. Gains defense in bushes. Learn that and use those troops for their skills.
4) Find yourself a GREAT GUILD. Don't settle for easy swap, or AID/MOTIVATE GUILDS. If there is no advise flowing from leadership in that GUILD at least once a day, max every two days, find another GUILD. You may need to look in that GUILDS forum. Sometimes repeat questions have great answers in there. As you might realize I maintain our GUILD FORUM because I believe if I grow you and your city, you help us as a GUILD.
5) Spend Money, real money on Diamonds. I don't work for INNOGAMES, but I will tell you if you don't spend it, you will lose. You can play this game for free but why? Everyone I know has money issues but if you set a budget based on the enjoyment you are having, spend only that money. Ex. Entertainment budget for eating out at a restaurant per month might be $150-$200. I'm not telling you not to go out, I am suggesting you cut one visit out and buy DIAMONDS for this game and use them. That is exactly what I did. You might argue that you don't want to use real money to play a game. Then the question becomes, should you be playing THIS GAME? I play hockey. Costs me about $400 a season. Afterward I go to a bar which costs me about $50 per week. I drove my car to hockey and I am responsible when I beverage and I drive home using gas in my car. That is my cost for playing Hockey.
6) Try to remember what Medieval Times was like. Unlike today, where everyone must own a chainsaw if he is going to cut down trees, back in the day, people helped each other. Farmers, especially got together to help each other harvest crops, birth live stock, deal with illness. Do the same in this game. Work with other people to support your city. You make goods of one kind, and someone else makes goods that are different based on your cities BOOST from the Continental Map where you are conquering land. TRADE the goods. Want better goods with a better player in your HOOD, offer FP's for their higher age GOODS. Why not? You can then build newer Great BUILDINGS ahead of others in your age, and your powerful HOOD player is not likely to plunder you since they are now a TRADING PARTNER, just like in the real world.
Just a few helpful game tips.
Houston Don
Member
I was a farmer for a long time before I learned how to attack/plunder. So I built up my defenses and military buildings to the point where it is extremely rare to lose when attacking or to be successfully attacked. As others have stated, the best defense is to collect on time and the worst is to use poor defenses while leaving your buildings uncollected for lengthy periods of time. It should be noted that attacking players with much stronger troops and leveled military buildings will invite them to retaliate, you risk becoming a frequent target if you start messaging those who plunder you and berating them for "robbing", "stealing" from you or for "being a bully".
While not an exclusively medieval game, attacking and/or plundering are part of the game. Claiming some non-existent high moral ground because YOU have decided to not plunder or bother leveling your defenses/attack abilities is a laughably poor retort when it is obvious that you chose to level up faster than you could defend your resources. It's also wasteful to use up large amounts of space to place endless ritual flames and level defense buildings endlessly when your chances of being plundered are relatively small, I've successfully attacked those with defenses of 900 (so far in PME, most neighbors have been closer to 100 for me) and the player I plundered admitted that he hadn't been plundered in a very long time. The amount of space used to get that level of defense could have housed scores of SoK's or other buildings that would produce untold wealth every single day but he was focused on the once a year plundering he'd get, the opportunity costs far more. And I have to agree that befriending stronger players can help you a great deal, even donating a few points to their GB's makes more sense than provoking them.
While not an exclusively medieval game, attacking and/or plundering are part of the game. Claiming some non-existent high moral ground because YOU have decided to not plunder or bother leveling your defenses/attack abilities is a laughably poor retort when it is obvious that you chose to level up faster than you could defend your resources. It's also wasteful to use up large amounts of space to place endless ritual flames and level defense buildings endlessly when your chances of being plundered are relatively small, I've successfully attacked those with defenses of 900 (so far in PME, most neighbors have been closer to 100 for me) and the player I plundered admitted that he hadn't been plundered in a very long time. The amount of space used to get that level of defense could have housed scores of SoK's or other buildings that would produce untold wealth every single day but he was focused on the once a year plundering he'd get, the opportunity costs far more. And I have to agree that befriending stronger players can help you a great deal, even donating a few points to their GB's makes more sense than provoking them.
DeletedUser30312
I've plundered sets far more often than my own sets have been plundered, so it evens out in the end. Especially when my Atlantis Museum can double what I steal.
Medieval? My city has a 20th Century level of tech, not counting more advanced GBs. If you're my neighbor defending with knights and archers, I'm going to massively pwn you with guys with rocket launchers.
grandmaster ubero
New Member
Unless you put up a massive defense, especially your DA attack need to be 100-150% ,
id say dont bother to have any defense, you'll get plundered regardless of the defense boost.
It can be understated the value of having a high defending army attack boost, just 50% will stop alot of people , 100%+ u are almost impervious.
Here is my current defense stats (Screenshot):
https://paste.pics/1421fc66bc161975631b4f5c9806dc0a
Adding more flames etc. wont do much until you let them pay the price. If they need 5 attacks to kill each one of your units thats great but if u give them just 1 point damage even with 5 retaliations they would still have half their health left, while if u give them 3 points /attack after just 3 attacks and retaliations from your defening unit their unit would have just 1 point left and even just 1 attack from you onthem would kill the unit.
The more attack your defensive army (DA) have, the more the extra defense matters, the less u have the less added extra defense matters.
With over 110% atk even attackers with 200% def and 400+ % atk die and i lose 2-3 units max. while with 50% i lose all units and they lost about 2-3 units, the difference is massive.
If you really want to have great defense work on St Basils, Terracotta Army and Deal Castle, if you think its not worth it then you have to accept beeing plundered and attack a lot, how much is highly situational (depends on hood, age etc).
Collecting on time will help even more as not only do they lose units every time they attack you but also get nothing back even if they manage to breach your defenses.
That ,or just have buildings that cant be plundered obviously.
I prefer to have a diverse set so thats not an option me.
If you are horrible (for various reasons) at collecting on time and have plenty that can be plundered i'd suggest defend really well or change your city so it cant be plundered, or last option simply quit playing if you can't take it anymore.
id say dont bother to have any defense, you'll get plundered regardless of the defense boost.
It can be understated the value of having a high defending army attack boost, just 50% will stop alot of people , 100%+ u are almost impervious.
Here is my current defense stats (Screenshot):
https://paste.pics/1421fc66bc161975631b4f5c9806dc0a
Adding more flames etc. wont do much until you let them pay the price. If they need 5 attacks to kill each one of your units thats great but if u give them just 1 point damage even with 5 retaliations they would still have half their health left, while if u give them 3 points /attack after just 3 attacks and retaliations from your defening unit their unit would have just 1 point left and even just 1 attack from you onthem would kill the unit.
The more attack your defensive army (DA) have, the more the extra defense matters, the less u have the less added extra defense matters.
With over 110% atk even attackers with 200% def and 400+ % atk die and i lose 2-3 units max. while with 50% i lose all units and they lost about 2-3 units, the difference is massive.
If you really want to have great defense work on St Basils, Terracotta Army and Deal Castle, if you think its not worth it then you have to accept beeing plundered and attack a lot, how much is highly situational (depends on hood, age etc).
Collecting on time will help even more as not only do they lose units every time they attack you but also get nothing back even if they manage to breach your defenses.
That ,or just have buildings that cant be plundered obviously.
I prefer to have a diverse set so thats not an option me.
If you are horrible (for various reasons) at collecting on time and have plenty that can be plundered i'd suggest defend really well or change your city so it cant be plundered, or last option simply quit playing if you can't take it anymore.
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Algona
Well-Known Member
Please note, the rest of your post is good stuff.
But that quote is absolutely awful advice. No defense means anyone in the hood will beat you, not just the rabid plunderers. Always put your best units out, even if you have no defensive boost* so the yutzes in the bottom of the hood won't attack you with their antiquated troops when they get a DC or Quest saying to win X battles.
As far as the idea of having defensive boosts, it's been a hotly contested topic between top notch players for years. There really is no one right universal answer for all players to the question of how much defense to build, only what works for each individual player.
*I run no defensive boost at all just the best current Era troops. I haven't been plundered this year.
Emberguard
Well-Known Member
Yeah gotta agree with Algona on that one. Even if you have no defence boost putting anything less then your best troop loadout increases your chances of being plundered significantly. You don't have to beat everyone for it to be worthwhile.
DeletedUser30312
I agree that you should always use the best units available for defense. Without defense boosts, someone like me can and will still wreck you but you're getting wrecked with Spearfighters anyway. A more credible defense has some deterrence value since some people will troll through a hood looking for easy prey and won't fight current armies.
Defense bonuses are more iffy. For Watchfires/Ritual Flames to have any real impact, you need a lot of them. Dozens. And that takes away room for productions. Boosts from the tavern or inventory aren't permanent and need to be renewed. It's cheaper for an attacker to boost attack through the tavern than it is for the defender to boost defense. Inventory boosts have limited quantities. You want event buildings with defense boosts like set pieces, upgradable buildings, or something like the Carousel from the event we just had that does more than just boost defense and has more value for the space used.
If you're going to try to turtle up with a defense, you'll need the attack bonuses from the defense GBs on your defending army. I've fought people with 300-400% defense bonuses with no attack bonus on their DAs and while the defense high bonus can slow me down, it doesn't stop me if their units can only do 1 damage per hit to my units. An attack bonus means they can start damaging my units more which means more losses to my army even if I defeat them, which affects my ability to keep attacking them on a regular basis. I can still break through very powerful defenses as I showed here though.
Defense bonuses are more iffy. For Watchfires/Ritual Flames to have any real impact, you need a lot of them. Dozens. And that takes away room for productions. Boosts from the tavern or inventory aren't permanent and need to be renewed. It's cheaper for an attacker to boost attack through the tavern than it is for the defender to boost defense. Inventory boosts have limited quantities. You want event buildings with defense boosts like set pieces, upgradable buildings, or something like the Carousel from the event we just had that does more than just boost defense and has more value for the space used.
If you're going to try to turtle up with a defense, you'll need the attack bonuses from the defense GBs on your defending army. I've fought people with 300-400% defense bonuses with no attack bonus on their DAs and while the defense high bonus can slow me down, it doesn't stop me if their units can only do 1 damage per hit to my units. An attack bonus means they can start damaging my units more which means more losses to my army even if I defeat them, which affects my ability to keep attacking them on a regular basis. I can still break through very powerful defenses as I showed here though.
BruteForceAttack
Well-Known Member
Some folks add no defense so that the attacker get minimum points, if they have a city that cannot be plundered or if they are collecting on time or if they just don't care, then why not?
Emberguard
Well-Known Member
Well yeah. If it doesn't matter if you're plundered then it's a moot point what defence you've got. Just assuming if anyone wants to know what to do with their defence that they care about people getting through
ODragon
Well-Known Member
Very nice analysis. One thing to also consider is that the Deal/SBC are huge in comparison to the bonus they provide; the one thing they provide that almost nothing else does is attack boost when defending. Personally, I don't think they are worth the size but when you include the attack boost for your defenders, maybe you do.
Deal = 49 spaces and at L10, you are only at 31% A/D boost vs using the same space for RF/WT = 24 RF + 1 WT = 196% defense boost
I personally, don't advise them but I can see why people like them. The extra attack is probably worth 2x what the extra defense is worth since so little boosts defensive attack.
TL;DR = Do what you like but TA is probably the best of the defensive buildings!