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Idolatry

DeletedUser3

5C88D5EE-orig-1.jpg


This thread intends to discuss the topic of idolatry. It is not a Christian-specific topic, as idolatry is both blasphemed and revered in different beliefs. So here we enter into a discussion about, "what's so wrong with idolatry" and "what constitutes idolatry?"

Please remember to remain civil and debate in the spirit of fun. Thanks all.


(( disclaimer: This is an actual action figure doll made by Accoutrements ))
 

DeletedUser

this may be a stupid question and probably is but whats idoltry is that the same as adultry like wen you cheat?
 

DeletedUser

Idolatry: The worship of a physical object as a god

If it is not Christian specific, then why the cheap shot on Christ? Why not use just the word or definition? Of all the images to use, it seems like if you had to use one, why not an object like a Roman god or something. Christ was not an object, he was a living breathing person. At least a cross I could see as that is an object.
 

DeletedUser55

i think he use the image due to the fact in Exodus 20:1-15 (i looked that up so if I'm wrong please let me know) it says.

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

so ok its not carved.. or made for yourself... but as far as I'm aware they did not know about mass producing plastic casting back then ;)
 

DeletedUser

I think the doll is a cheap shot on Christ by the makers and not intended for the purpose of worship. So my statement still stands.
 

DeletedUser

ok so i believe in the worship of god through an object. for example i do rituals that i belive can be used to communicate with the gods but an object as a god i dont think so.lol but i guess thats why its called faith you need to believe its true even if it probably isnt
 
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DeletedUser3

Whether it is a cheap shot on the part of the manufacturers, or a legitimate product made by the manufacturers, this and many other items of a similar nature are mass produced and sold at various religion-based stores. Whether it is a plaster mold of Budai/Hotei, the rotund god of good fortune, a necklace with the Star of David, earrings depicting the Cross, a bobblehead Siva , or a plastic Jesus, religious symbols have become mainstream, mass produced, mass purchased, and idolized across the world. I presented one example, in a comedic light, to bring a point across.

Idols are blasphemed in most every version of the Bible and in many variations of the Abrahamic religions. It is, as well, addressed in other religions. However, Dark Lotus, your reaction to this image demonstrates the confusion associated with idolatry. If, indeed, it is considered wrong to idolize, then why carry such heated convictions as to how those idols are portrayed?

Perhaps a deeper understanding on the context, a greater insight into how symbols of religious beliefs transcend being labeled idols, yet are still coveted and defended with such reverence, can provide much needed information to this discussion.
 

DeletedUser

LOL My reaction is one of political correctness and not my own views. When a supreme being makes me aware of its existence then I guess I will have a god and something to idolize. Right now I do not know of a god that does not need man to explain him, spread his word, right his wants/views/likes/dislikes, and build his idols. So for all practical purposes it seems man made gods and not the other way around.

I feel that overall people are very arrogant and pompous. Since they have the ability to reason, they demonstrate it by not doing it very well. They feel we NEED a reason to exist, and can not live with the concept that maybe we just do. There has to be all these huge conspiracy theories on the killing of JFK because the fact that maybe Oswald did not just like the guy does not make sense to them. So they need their idols to make sense of it all.

Of course in 2012 people still wear jewelry, nice shinny metal and trinkets on them (impressed with such things like a monkey). They have rings in their face and ink on their skin like they just came out of some rain forest. These people can not be nice on their own, or not steal or commit other wrong doings. They need the fear of fire and brimstone to make them do right. Yet they have the right to vote, sit on a jury and decide the outcome of a persons life, and now I have to pay more so they can have health care?

They are breeders, and their only real purpose is to insure there are people to do menial jobs and keep the population high to insure our existence. That it my view on it lol. If they need idols to make them better people, then I am all for it. I was just pointing out that you might not want to use Christ. If you upset a breeder (they are democrats and liberals after all) they can become very violent and aggressive. Keep in mind that these are the same people who throw blood or red paint on fur coats to protest against the wearing of it. Not smart enough to understand that the $10,000 fur coat is insured. They will just have the insurance company buy them another one. Hence causing the slaughter of even more of the little critters they are trying to protect. Smart move people lol did you think of that all by yourself!

You really do not need information for this discussion. Simple minds need simple things like idols. That is why we have American Idol. That is why the ball player/actor/singer who entertains you makes 100 times more then the doctor who saves your life.
 

DeletedUser

hey simple people and some of the worlds smartest people believe in idols Because think aout this as how i think their may be a god .so a plant a fish a dog and a man are all alive but alive in different ways right so the fish is more alive then the plant and the dog more so then the fish and man more alive then the dog so who is more alive then man? i hate to break it to you but man is not the most supreme being in the universe the world isnt flat and the sun doesnt revolve around us.lol now IMO it would be more arrogent to believe their is no god because that is just like saying that mankind is the most supreme being in the universe that their is no higher power then us and that we are the closest thing to a god their is.which is dumber to believe then believing in a god that chooses not to interfear
 
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DeletedUser

And on that note, the prosecution rest lol wow that was easy......

I did not say that there were no gods. I said it seems that they all claim to have created mankind, yet are nothing without mankind. They need man to do their work and spread their word. Why do not these supreme beings just make themselves known to all people rather then to just one. If they have this desire for us to act/behave in a certain way, then the obvious is to remove all doubt, and be done with it. A fish might be above a plant, a dog above a fish and so on. But HELLLLLOOOOOO they DO NOT WORSHIP and make IDOLS of them. lol That is what people do. We have fish as gods and cows as gods and trees as gods. Now how can you even think for one minute, that I would even consider man to be a supreme being?

You make the same mistake as so many others. You take the top .1 percent and say look how smart and great man is. I take the other 99.9% and say look how primitive, not very smart, not very logical we are. We have one race that dresses dogs up in funny little hats and clothes, another race that worships them, and another race that puts them on the menu. We really do not have it together as a species. So I think many things of us but supreme being is not one of them.
 

DeletedUser

see but you keep resorting to christianity when you think of god.your notions that god needs us to spread his word and that he wants us to act a certain way.or that5 he only talked to one person maby he never spoke to anybody. i think he gave us our diveresity so that we may grow stronger to live and learn and live for god and ourselfs in however we see fit.just because some people worship dogs and some people put them on the menu doesnt mean that race that worships dogs are wrong or stupid and it doesnt mean that race that eats dogs is going to hell.IMO god made all religions so that man could find their own way to believe in him weather you do or dont.we have freewill and logic that shouldnt be ignored just maby their was supposed to be 1000 different religions from the start.
for god lies within our hearts he is whatever we make of him.weather you worship a cow as god or not. a cow god is just as real as jesus or buddah.IMO god wants us to know he is real but wants us to figure out how to worship him or what religion to choose on our own and the fact that people can have faith and religion that is what seperates us from they animals.we have souls and souls are eternal and never die so they must go somewere right. and it is because we have a choice to worship god the freewill to make that choice of religion on our own.that shows our potential as a race we have no limits to how far we can go.
we are limited only by our own imagination and have they ability to accomplish great things
 
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DeletedUser

I did no such thing. I said gods, not god. The topic was about idols and their relation to gods. With the Greeks or the Romans, you could anger the gods. It was that way with the gods in south america, the Egyptians and all others. If you could anger them, then you could please them. Well did the gods tell everyone how this is done, or was it done by people? When an almighty god or gods come forth and define themselves and what we are to do. Who would dare question it or the worshiping of the idols that they dictated? That does/has not happen tho. Man made the gods, then the idols for them, then the rules. So did man make the gods or did god/gods make man? How can you say that logic should not be ignored and then say it was it was the grace of god that saved all those people from a (examples) flood or a earthquake. I did not see gods on the news helping the people. I saw a bunch of people, trained dogs, helicopters and things doing it. For man to make an object out of stone, wood, or metal, then tell others that it is divine, so they all worship it, defies all logic. What gods/idols did not need man to define them and spread their faith?
 

DeletedUser

(examples) flood or a earthquake. I did not see gods on the news helping the people. I saw a bunch of people, trained dogs, helicopters and things doing it. For man to make an object out of stone, wood, or metal, then tell others that it is divine, so they all worship it, defies all logic. What gods/idols did not need man to define them and spread their faith?

Their has been plenty of eye witness accounts of god interveaning and even healing people.and directly stepping in for example my grandpa is a pentacostal and he said that people on their death bed that even doctors said would die soon so would go into the church and everybody would pray and they would be healed! doctors couldnt explain it and said that it was a miracle.the point is god intervenes everyday it just cant be scientifically explained.their has been tens of thousands of people have wintessed miracle healings/intervention first hand by a room full of people and critical cancer healed instantly when people were on their death bed how do you explain that? so of course those spots or object that began to shine and heal critical cancer would be worshipped even if it was made of stone wood or metal but god worked through they object and it was eyewitnessed by alot of people. and that is why objects are worshipped
 
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DeletedUser3

Hi Hero, may I request you provide documented examples, otherwise it is merely urban legend / myth / fantasy.

I noticed the core issue isn't really being addressed, which is idolatry. For example, in the Bible it is stated not to idolize, not to create images, etc., and yet that is exactly what is going on. So, is this yet another instance of not taking the Bible seriously, or is it hypocrisy, or is it a universal violation of the religion's tenets?

(note: I posed Christianity, since it is the religion most Americans are familiar with or associate to, however any religion can be discussed here in the context of idolatry -- I merely request to please stay on topic ).
 

DeletedUser

Well, religions deal with praising and worshiping a god or gods, and so anything that gets in the way of that is considered negative and bad. The thought is that if you're spending time idolizing other things, then that's less time spent for your god. It's kind of like the girlfriend situation, or even a boyfriend. If you're with someone, then you shouldn't be looking for other people to flirt with or act all cute with; it makes your partner jealous. Different people have different views on what religion is for, one of them being a primitive method to control people and scare them into getting in line (not literally in a line). And surely enough, the concept of forbidding idols and focusing solely on a god does seem to fit into that idea.

As for the situation with the doll or whatever it is, I think there are two different perspectives: one from the people selling it, and one from the people buying it. From the people selling it, there isn't really anything else but not taking religion seriously, if at all. These people are filled with greed and want to make easy money by selling something that's related to a well known thing/person. As for the people buying it, I see it as a mix between hypocrisy and not taking religion too seriously. For the large number of Christians that don't even read the Bible, it's not taking religion too seriously. For those that do read the Bible, it would be hypocrisy. In all it's forms, however, it is a violation of Christian tenets, but it comes down to ignoring them or being unaware of them.
 

DeletedUser

I am not sure if it is hypocrisy in their minds. Coming from a very religious family, I always ask about the cross around their necks. Would this not be an idol made of metal? Why the bible "commands" (not recommends or suggest) to keep the Sabbath (seventh) day holy (which is and always been Saturday) yet the worship and have Sunday as the holy day. I dated a catholic girl once and her parents house was scary. Pictures of Jesus on the walls, with the eyes that appear to follow you as you move through the room. All kinds of Mary and Jesus candles and things. Yet these things are forbidden in the bibles teachings.

What I would say is it seems yet again people do not want to conform to God and live by the rules set of any said religion. So in turn they find a religion that conforms to their lifestyle. If there is a church that considers homosexuality a sin. Well they just find one that will tell them it is not. Just another example of man making gods and not the other way around. If they want to think it or not it is hypocrisy. I only know of a very few who do just as the bible instructs them. For those people I commend, for if anyone deserves a heaven it is people who conform 100%. Of course I have problems with them as well. They tell me my xmas tree is a false idol. Yet I do not worship it. It is just a tree with some lights on it. I throw it away when I am done. lol does not seem like a fitting thing to do if it was something I idolized.
 

DeletedUser

Hi Hero, may I request you provide documented examples, otherwise it is merely urban legend / myth / fantasy.

I noticed the core issue isn't really being addressed, which is idolatry. For example, in the Bible it is stated not to idolize, not to create images, etc., and yet that is exactly what is going on. So, is this yet another instance of not taking the Bible seriously, or is it hypocrisy, or is it a universal violation of the religion's tenets?

(note: I posed Christianity, since it is the religion most Americans are familiar with or associate to, however any religion can be discussed here in the context of idolatry -- I merely request to please stay on topic ).

i believe this works http://www.discover-catholic-miracles.com/healing-miracles.htmlbut their are many more on the web just take a moment to look them up.im not sure if this is exacly right or not now that i take a second look but they sites are easy to find:)
 

DeletedUser3

Nope, almost all those refer to miracles as detailed in the Bible, while a few refer to events that allegedly were witnessed 100 years ago or later. Nothing presented there is substantiated to have actually occurred, nor demonstrated to have any evidence that the witnesses weren't falsifying (for example, three kids claiming to see the Virgin Mary)...

Anyway, even if these "miracles" actually happened, it still doesn't justify violating the tenets of the Bible, now does it?
 

DeletedUser

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DeletedUser

Calling the Higgs boson particle the god particle is really a misnomer that shouldn't be used. But calling it the god particle just gives it more attention, so obviously the media is going to stick with it.

What I would say is it seems yet again people do not want to conform to God and live by the rules set of any said religion. So in turn they find a religion that conforms to their lifestyle. If there is a church that considers homosexuality a sin. Well they just find one that will tell them it is not. Just another example of man making gods and not the other way around. If they want to think it or not it is hypocrisy. I only know of a very few who do just as the bible instructs them. For those people I commend, for if anyone deserves a heaven it is people who conform 100%. Of course I have problems with them as well. They tell me my xmas tree is a false idol. Yet I do not worship it. It is just a tree with some lights on it. I throw it away when I am done. lol does not seem like a fitting thing to do if it was something I idolized.

I find some issues with this. The only way to live by the 'rules' set by a god or gods is to stick to strictly the source, be it the Bible or some document. To deviate in ANY sense is to not live by the god's rules, since that's the decree. But I don't really think anyone could possibly live exactly as the Bible instructs them to, especially since there are so many outlandish rules. Things like do not cut hair at the sides, kill people who worship other gods, no wearing clothing made of more than one type of fabric, and dozens more that are found all over the Bible, especially in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. You don't really think anyone can actually live by all of these rules, can you? To not follow even one is to go against the command or rule of the Christian God. So when you say that people do not conform to God, really all people fail to conform to God and just have varying degrees of nonconformity. And yet when you think about the fact that these rules were set by God, any degree of nonconformity is ultimately disobedience, wouldn't you say? Idolatry may be one of the rules set forth by God, but is it a more important rule to follow simply because it's listed in the Ten Commandments and not just jammed in with other rules?
 
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