Imbalance between Military Strength

[Johnny B. Goode]

Hi, Xerosaur,

Thank you very much for the detailed insight.

I wonder how you know so much about the design of the game.

Yes, I knew that I was playing against AI; but have had never thought that machine learning was in place to learn of my strategies and tactics.

The trouble is that his "insights" don't come from actual knowledge, it comes from baseless assumptions. I can tell you from 7+ years experience that the AI doesn't adapt to your strategies. Ever. In any age that I've played. It doesn't get stronger in response to my boosts getting higher. It doesn't do things differently when I do. The AI doesn't "learn", it just follows its same programming. Nobody has ever proved anything different, and the perspective of 7+ years of fighting in every age up to SAM tells me that his insights are just faulty guesswork based on a limited perspective.

 

[ChimaeraW]

Hello C. My main city is on T so I paid your city a visit. If you are of the mind to put the theory of "AI Learning" to the test, it would be a snap for you considering your city's layout. The next time that you plan on doing some battling (it matters not where) simply remove the one section of road that connects your Town Hall to the rest of your city. This will deactivate all of your attack boosts. If the "Learning" theory is correct you should see no noticeable difference in your battle results. Your attack boosts will be zero and the AI should reduce its level of difficulty to compensate. I wager that the AI will not adjust and you will find it harder to battle. After you test, don't forget to replace the road section.

IMO, the reason that you have not seen an appreciable difference in battle success as you added boosts is because you have aged up to Modern Era with, and I am guessing here, boosts for your attacking army in the 200%/100% range (which is less than I have in any of my 4 Iron Age cities).

Hi, Pericles,

In fact, my attack bonues are above 100% but below 200%.

 

[ChimaeraW]

The key to fighting Hover Tanks is to.... Wait.
Wait is the key. (If you move even one space forward, the Hovers can hit you)
If you go first.. Do not move at all. let the Hovers roll out. Half will become visible (usually) so you can attack those from a distance (and if you are using Troops that can move far, you will maybe get to hit a few that moved too close) . Now you got all yours left, and only half of the original enemy. Clean it up. Fight done.
If you used troops that cannot move/shoot far. this plan does not work

Hi, Asi,

Yes, that is usually my strategy and tactics. I agree with you.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

Rail Guns are the only real hover killers up to about Oceanic

 

[xivarmy]

Rail Guns are the only real hover killers up to about Oceanic

They haven't been Hover Killers since the rebalance when they took away reactive armor from the hovers (which rails countered) and gave them Force Field + higher Defense. Now they often do less than 5 damage (if the hover has decent defense boost) and then miss a turn

If you go to AF though, Plasma Cannons are Hover Killers.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

They haven't been Hover Killers since the rebalance when they took away reactive armor from the hovers (which rails countered) and gave them Force Field + higher Defense. Now they often do less than 5 damage (if the hover has decent defense boost) and then miss a turn

If you go to AF though, Plasma Cannons are Hover Killers.

Thanks , I did not know this , it has been a while lol

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

I used eight Tomorrow Era Combat Drones all the way to Space Age Mars when I switched to Sentinels Never had a problem with Hovers.

 

[wolfhoundtoo]

At least some of the issues when moving through the ages would be which troops you are utilizing (whether you fight manually or auto). Given that most people are unfamiliar with and likely don't bother to analyze the units, some of the lack of changes is going to be from not using troops appropriately.

Also, as others have said in this thread you need to look at your defense boosts in comparison to what units you are fighting, the terrain and what bonuses each unit gets against the others.

To respond the point about your rogues being 'unattached' that means you are likely on the continental map since the AI operates differently than it does in the city defense, GBG and in GE (not city defense is not the same as the PVP tower). I think you'd be better off posting specific scenarios with what units you bring the fight, the enemy units, the boosts they have, and where the battle is occurring (i.e., GE) and to a lesser extent the terrain the units were in when the individual unit fight occurred.

 

[ChimaeraW]

At least some of the issues when moving through the ages would be which troops you are utilizing (whether you fight manually or auto). Given that most people are unfamiliar with and likely don't bother to analyze the units, some of the lack of changes is going to be from not using troops appropriately.

Also, as others have said in this thread you need to look at your defense boosts in comparison to what units you are fighting, the terrain and what bonuses each unit gets against the others.

To respond the point about your rogues being 'unattached' that means you are likely on the continental map since the AI operates differently than it does in the city defense, GBG and in GE (not city defense is not the same as the PVP tower). I think you'd be better off posting specific scenarios with what units you bring the fight, the enemy units, the boosts they have, and where the battle is occurring (i.e., GE) and to a lesser extent the terrain the units were in when the individual unit fight occurred.

I was asking the original question in a general sense, because it has been my general feeling since the Iron Age. I am still in the Modern Era, and have been participating in GEs, Battlegrounds, and Continent Map battles. The GE and Map battles are easier than the Battlegrounds ones, because the Battlegrounds ones would build up attrition against my soldiers.

 

[ChimaeraW]

I am not sure whether I can get special soldiers other than Rogues, Champions, Drummers, Colour Guard, and so forth.

According some information that I have read on the Royal Bath, a special reward building that is gained by completing the Ancient Egypt settlement, the Royal Bath could produce soldiers that are normally not produced by other military buildings.

Sometimes, Champions offer a little extra help.

 

[wolfhoundtoo]

It is important for you to use the right match up of units even when you are manually battling. Also, whenever possible you want to stop your troops in the terrain that gives them attack or defense boosts as that strengthen your units (so long as you still can attack since the most critical thing is usually killing the enemy units fast as possible).

You are modern era so machine guns and rogues are a nice combination since the MG teams have the contact ability which should let you get in a free hit against most modern era units when they attack and convert you rogues (note not on the continental map). Only snipers and artillery units will be out of the MG's contact range if I recall correctly. They have the dug in ability which should help them survive a bit more against other units. You should try researching the modern era units on the internet as i'm sure there are plenty of examples that you can watch which will give you a better idea than just from this forum.

 

[Emberguard]

The AI will adapt to that against you. Balance. The game will not give you the upper hand.

It doesn't "adapt" in the sense of changing strategy. It's the same strategy. However there are outlier situations where killing something a bit quicker would result in a worse outcome.

The AI for the most part isn't really concerned about whether or not it gets hit. It is however concerned with making sure it hits something.

Let's say the opponent has 1 Fast Unit. That Fast Unit rushes to your side of the battlefield Turn 1. If that unit takes 4 turns to kill, the opponent is advancing forward on the battlefield that entire time while your units are probably hanging back a bit to gang up on that one unit that rushed ahead

If you reduce it to 3 turns to kill, that's an extra turn the AI needs to decide what to do with your units. Instead of hanging back to get a final hit in it's probably going to charge forward towards the next target. This could potentially change which side hits the next full-health unit first, which then reduces that units attacking power.


Then there's also tie-breaker situations. Maybe you used to have both the Artillery and Heavy units taking 2 damage. Now you increased your attacking stats. Lets say the Artillery went from 2.3 to 2.4 damage rounding down to 2, while the Heavy went from 2.4 to 2.5 damage rounding up to 3 damage.

There's no longer a tie-break because you increased your stats. This could change the order of units attacked because it's no longer going with a tie-breaking logic. Maybe you wanted the Artillery to be killed first because it can hit your units before the Heavy Unit would be in range to do so, but because the AI just wants to hit for the most damage possible it's now being delayed until the Heavy Unit is taken care of.


For the most part increasing your stats will be in your favour because the AI isn't changing its strategy. The strategy remained the same. But there will be outlier cases where something dying a little faster places your units in a worse position or increasing stats changes which unit would take the most damage.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Hi, Pericles,

In fact, my attack bonues are above 100% but below 200%.

Unless your gameplay includes very little GBG you really should work on building your attack up. 100%-200% is low for Modern Era.

 

[ChimaeraW]

It is important for you to use the right match up of units even when you are manually battling. Also, whenever possible you want to stop your troops in the terrain that gives them attack or defense boosts as that strengthen your units (so long as you still can attack since the most critical thing is usually killing the enemy units fast as possible).

You are modern era so machine guns and rogues are a nice combination since the MG teams have the contact ability which should let you get in a free hit against most modern era units when they attack and convert you rogues (note not on the continental map). Only snipers and artillery units will be out of the MG's contact range if I recall correctly. They have the dug in ability which should help them survive a bit more against other units. You should try researching the modern era units on the internet as i'm sure there are plenty of examples that you can watch which will give you a better idea than just from this forum.

In fact, the Modern Era troopers just land in front (just 3 or 4 spaces away) of my soldiers and deal the first attacks immediately.

 

[Emberguard]

In fact, the Modern Era troopers just land in front (just 3 or 4 spaces away) of my soldiers and deal the first attacks immediately.

Paratroopers?

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

The point being that rogues with drop in units is never a good idea. The base units will take all the first hits.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Paratroopers?

I don't remember for certain, but I think that Paratroopers could have first strike ability depending on where they land. However, both Mechanized Infantry and Mechanized Artillery could hit on the first wave. I had Hover Tanks when I was in ME so my advice to the OP about which units to use would be irrelevant.

 

[wolfhoundtoo]

In fact, the Modern Era troopers just land in front (just 3 or 4 spaces away) of my soldiers and deal the first attacks immediately.

It is important to understand the abilities of the individual units and the bonuses they get against each other and their special abilities.

As someone else noted paratroopers are a poor choice to use with rogues as paratroopers (which is not what I meant by modern era troops - I meant all of the fighting units of the modern age) as paratroopers deploy randomly. That means that your paratroopers may very well land nearer to the enemy and be in range when your rogues are not in range thus the AI will kill your paratrooper. It does act 1st as I recall but the random nature of the landing tends to negate that advantage unless you get pretty lucky. The paratrooper is best against artillery as it gets a bonus against them and a bonus against the bazooka teams (light unit). It does have stealth in forests so if there are many forest tiles you might be able to not get it shot at by the enemy but because of the paratroopers' range and depending on the enemy units you are facing that might not help you.

Mechanized infantry is decent since it has good movement range, and it has bonuses against the bazooka teams (light) and the paratrooper (ranged unit). It has no special abilities but if you are manually controlling the mechanized infantry you can usually control how many of your units get 1st hit (artillery and sniper units can shoot pretty far so not so good against them).

The Bazooka team is the light unit of the modern era. It has the 'dug in' skill so if it is attacked from more than 2 sectors away it gets a defense boost which makes it a bit tougher. Downside as I recall is that it is slow and the range isn't the greatest. It has boosts against the battle tank (heavy unit) and the mechanized artillery. It is too slow to be effective against artillery as I recall. This unit is best against a lot of tanks and might mix well with rogues depending on the enemy units.

The battle tank (heavy unit) has boosts against the paratroopers (ranged unit) and the mechanized infantry (fast unit). The heavies tend to be popular as mixed with rogues they do a fair bit of damage if used right and tend to be tough to kill (bazooka and artillery can be an issue for them though).

Mechanized artillery gets bonuses against the battle tank (Heavy) and the mechanized infantry (fast). If facing all tanks then 8 artilleries can work pretty well as I recall but the mechanized infantry can close pretty fast so less effective against them.

From an online source the champion for this age is a fast unit so it gets the bonuses against the same units as the mechanized infantry. Generally, not worth the time.

You need to try a mix of units to see what works best for your tactics. I'd suggest a couple of artillery units and battle tanks and 4 rogues if you aren't facing many enemy units that can target you long range. The 1st few hits should land on your rogues (assuming you aren't on the continental map) so you get a few hits in for free with the artillery. As I recall my preferred tactic was to eliminate the artillery 1st (so I might bring 4 and 4 and no rogues in some cases) and then control the pace of the battle by keeping away from the enemy while I wounded the ones in front so that the tanks could kill them when they moved in 1st.

Note: my apologies the machine gun unit is postmodern not modern.

 

[ChimaeraW]

Paratroopers?

Yes, Paratroopers. That was actually my first Modern Era battle: I was shocked, and had to immediately surrender - otherwise, my soldiers would have died by 80% immediately.

 

[ChimaeraW]

Unless your gameplay includes very little GBG you really should work on building your attack up. 100%-200% is low for Modern Era.No

I play GBG and expedition every time and a lot. I am a guild creator and leader, and I just finished conquering 3 provinces in the last GBG and pushed my guild up a league.