Inactive players, when does FOE bump them?

[67Sage101]

No, that has been said by nobody here. Nobody. In none of the discussions of any suggested changes have I ever seen ANYONE say that they think the current game version is perfect. In almost 7 years. Nobody. And I've got FP sitting on GBs that have been there for over 5 years. But I learned right off the bat that donations of Forge Points were just that...donations. You don't get donations back. Even in the real world, you don't get donations back. Just give it up already. They're gone. Live with it.

Not going to give it up, but you can keep replying. I think it should change...you and all donors should get your FP back on all those GB's sitting there for 5 years. It's not like you don't have 50000 or more FP banked. What the issue if you suddenly have 55,000. Heck I know people that have 100,000 banked. Even my pathetic small city in the progressive era has 13,500 banked. It's not an issue of getting the 143 FP out there back. The points is, what the issue with getting it back. NOTHING. So why do you all even bother to argue about it. Just give back the 143 FP. It's not a hard concept to grasp, and yet....we all have to read about the imbalance it would cause, or we read about how someone just learned to live with their 5 year list. We hear about how it causes no concern to some posters. So the real point at the end of the day, is that we all just can't deal with an opinion that is not our own. Wow. If you love your GB donation tab 5 years running...why even respond at all. Because what you really love is beating up any forum poster for fun. NOTHING MORE.

 

[Emberguard]

Far from being an income stream, it's a refund on income already earned, not new income

It’s income you wouldn’t otherwise have once spent. That changes game dynamics if returned

I guess I don't know how many players have put on 1000 FP to a GB where the player has quit

you wouldn’t need to lose 1k at a time. You could, and some would. But even just 24 FP a day (hourly recharge rate) is enough to get pretty significant progress in hyper levelling a GB within a year. Game is almost 10 years old now and you can generate 100’s if not 1000’s per day just on city collections

 

[67Sage101]

It’s income you wouldn’t otherwise have once spent. That changes game dynamics if returned

What game dynamic is changed. As I stated in another post recently I know most active players have a large FP balance. I know some to have 100,000 FP banked. This is so they can level everyone else GB's in 1.9x thread. What game dynamic is changed if they get 500 FP back from inactive GB's? It would not imbalance anything. Large players would get large refunds into large banks, small players would get small refunds into small banks or perhaps get their first banked points.

you wouldn’t need to lose 1k at a time. You could, and some would. But even just 24 FP a day (hourly recharge rate) is enough to get pretty significant progress in hyper levelling a GB within a year. Game is almost 10 years old now and you can generate 100’s if not 1000’s per day just on city collections

That makes my point. When we make 500FP a day on collection and GBG, what's the issue if the 118 outstanding FP I have on dormant GB's gets returned. There is NO issue. I have 13,864 banked FP. If I get back the 118, it's not a big deal. But my GB donation tab would be cleaned up forever.

 

[67Sage101]

LOL. You think that this is new and innovative?!? ROFLMAO

Yes, yes I do think it's new and innovative. Especially judging by your gummed up 5 year GB donation tab, and all the others who see no reason for this thread to exist. Yes. Innovative. You didn't think of it. Is that why your so peeved?

Why do you think you should get it back if it's "donated"? You even admit it's donated. Talk about illogical.

As mentioned ad nauseum, because they have been sitting there on a dead account GB for 5 years. That's why. Try and keep up please...

 

[RazorbackPirate]

Yes. Innovative. You didn't think of it. Is that why your so peeved?

This idea is not new, or original. It has been proposed and shot down many times before. Each time it comes up, as you've found, it finds almost zero support from the player community for the reasons mentioned.

After being proposed multiple times over the years, Inno has not implemented anything like this, also for obvious reasons.

Count me as one who supports the ability to remove a GB from the list, but does not support the return of FPs.

 

[Agent327]

Count me as one who supports the ability to remove a GB from the list, but does not support the return of FPs.

Great option. Remove it from the list and lose your donated fp's, or keep it there in the hope you will get them back.

I would vote for that.

 

[Emberguard]

. I know some to have 100,000 FP banked. This is so they can level everyone else GB's in 1.9x thread. What game dynamic is changed if they get 500 FP back from inactive GB's

Currently you can only use a Forge Point once. You're asking to use the same Forge Point twice if you didn't get the desired result first time. That's the dynamic that would be changed. Thing is it wouldn't be just 500 FPs unless a player isn't doing much investing outside of safe bets in the first place.

You mentioned players with 100k in inventory. I also know a player with 100k in inventory. That player also has an additional 90k out in investments waiting to be flipped. Returning FPs could easily have just as big of an effect on power creep as The Arc and GBG had on the game with their introductions.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

That would affect the game balance. Everyone gets their FP back including the GB owner ? Where do the FP go ? Into their toolbar , it may be many tens of thousands if several GBs are involved. This in essence would allow you to use anyone’s GB as a storage facility used to convert your FP into packs otherwise. Leave them on it ? What about if it now gets sniped because it is locked down to position 4 but with no FP contributions on it now. Does Inno disconnect the GB to prevent thereby changing the users city stats automatically? Just leave the FP in it and move on , you donated them.

 

[67Sage101]

That would affect the game balance. Everyone gets their FP back including the GB owner ? Where do the FP go ? Into their toolbar , it may be many tens of thousands if several GBs are involved. This in essence would allow you to use anyone’s GB as a storage facility used to convert your FP into packs otherwise. Leave them on it ? What about if it now gets sniped because it is locked down to position 4 but with no FP contributions on it now. Does Inno disconnect the GB to prevent thereby changing the users city stats automatically? Just leave the FP in it and move on , you donated them.

I think of it like money. I give money to you and you do nothing with it but put it in your wallet for a year....then you throw your wallet in the trash with the money still in it (i.e. you quit playing the game) and then I come and take the money back out of your wallet and put it back in my wallet. It's the same money I gave you in the first place. I have it, you don't after I take it back. I am flabbergasted by all the discussions about how this would effect game balance. I'm left wondering how you all manage your own finances and taxes. I'm starting to think some here on the forum think tax refunds stimulate the ecomomy or they are like a second payday. Utterly amazing.

The FP are "used" when the building is leveled. Before the building levels, they are just sitting there unused. Like money in your wallet that didn't go to buy food. If you level the GB then it's used and can no longer be claimed. Just like if you buy bread with the money I give you I can no longer get the money back because it was spent.

I can't believe I'm explaining it to this level.

 

[67Sage101]

Currently you can only use a Forge Point once. You're asking to use the same Forge Point twice

Not true at all. The building has not leveled. The forge point is not used until the building changes level. Before that it just sits there. And if reclaimed before the building levels then its the same forge point....not a new one.

In my proposal this would only apply to a level that was not being completed and only after a significant amount of inactivity had passed.

I also know a player with 100k in inventory. That player also has an additional 90k out in investments waiting to be flipped. Returning FPs could easily have just as big of an effect on power creep as The Arc and GBG had on the game with their introductions.

If the 90k out in investments are made to active players, they will get them back in a few days with a profit of up to 100%. How is invested FP affecting power creep, other than by using the ARC as designed?

 

[67Sage101]

After being proposed multiple times over the years, Inno has not implemented anything like this, also for obvious reasons.

There is NO obvious reason. That's why it keeps coming up. The only thing I've seen so far is akin to a religious fervor for the status-quo, with changes being akin to the devil, and avoided at all costs.

 

[Emberguard]

it like money. I give money to you and you do nothing with it but put it in your wallet for a year

You invested in stocks. Stocks crashed. Money gone. Want money back from the bank? Bank gives out brand new loan with interest rates attached. Not same money.

Or you invested in a business. No customers came. Business failed. You can’t get the money back from the bank, you’d have to either file for bankruptcy and start again, or get a new loan for additional money with interest rates attached

Those Forge Points didn’t go into a wallet. They went into a investment and were already used. They just didn’t give you a return yet

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

I think of it like money. I give money to you and you do nothing with it but put it in your wallet for a year....then you throw your wallet in the trash with the money still in it (i.e. you quit playing the game) and then I come and take the money back out of your wallet and put it back in my wallet. It's the same money I gave you in the first place. I have it, you don't after I take it back. I am flabbergasted by all the discussions about how this would effect game balance. I'm left wondering how you all manage your own finances and taxes. I'm starting to think some here on the forum think tax refunds stimulate the ecomomy or they are like a second payday. Utterly amazing.

The FP are "used" when the building is leveled. Before the building levels, they are just sitting there unused. Like money in your wallet that didn't go to buy food. If you level the GB then it's used and can no longer be claimed. Just like if you buy bread with the money I give you I can no longer get the money back because it was spent.

I can't believe I'm explaining it to this level.

It will fundamentally alter the game , you can just dump your FP on any GB knowing that you will get it back in packs one way or another after a set period of time. Others GBs are not your bank to use however you wish. I don’t believe I have to explain this to you at this level.

 

[Emberguard]

How is invested FP affecting power creep, other than by using the ARC as designed?

Prior to Arc it took a lot longer to level GBs. That by definition is power creep. Yes you’re using it as designed. That’s still power creep that compounds the effects of every newly introduced GB after it

The FP are "used" when the building is leveled

FPs are used when you use them. You can’t level something without the action of using prior to it levelling regardless of how long it took or how many actions were involved

 

[67Sage101]

Prior to Arc it took a lot longer to level GBs. That by definition is power creep. Yes you’re using it as designed. That’s still power creep.

Ok. I understand. Sounds like you are a purest, someone who believe that the original game was the true inception and every change that followed was a step away from the perfect creation. I can see why you argue for the status-quo. And see any new ideas as object to be suppressed with great vigor.

Me, I like the ARC. Love to see more changes like it.

 

[67Sage101]

I'll stop forum posting. I didn't realize it was for originalists. We'll never agree. We just have to agree to disagree. Fare well folks.

 

[Emberguard]

Ok. I understand. Sounds like you are a purest, someone who believe that the original game was the true inception and every change that followed was a step away from the perfect creation.

That‘s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying the idea to return Forge Points after you’ve already spent them is unbalanced for this game due to the cascade effect it’ll have when combined with all the other additions the game has had [and will continue to have]

Me, I like the ARC

I like the Arc too. I’m not saying don’t make changes. I’m saying those changes need to be mindful of game balance. Not throw all balance out the window without taking into account how that changes player resources and player behaviour. If your response is “it doesn’t change anything” when it will absolutely increase player income available then that’s a pretty big indication you haven't thought it through on how or what that change will impact. A new event building adds much smaller amounts than the proposal you’re giving would add to the game

Games that add changes without being mindful on how it impacts their game die very quickly. You can’t just completely ignore what degree of flexibility your game has in its current design or what it’ll do to the game when making changes. There’s only so much income you can add before game design in general needs addressing. This idea isn’t some seasonal once off thing that can be altered or never seen again. It’d be a permanent game balance change if implemented

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

The player just needs to find inactive players with GBs and dump FP on them rendering the need to interact with others to get ahead null and void , that is called imbalanced.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

Ok. I understand. Sounds like you are a purest, someone who believe that the original game was the true inception and every change that followed was a step away from the perfect creation. I can see why you argue for the status-quo. And see any new ideas as object to be suppressed with great vigor.

Me, I like the ARC. Love to see more changes like it.

I'll stop forum posting. I didn't realize it was for originalists. We'll never agree. We just have to agree to disagree. Fare well folks.

No one here hates changes to the game in general. I can say that with certainty because I have been a Forum regular for several years and have talked with and read the posts of everyone here over that time. Some changes are more popular than others, but no one here hates the concept of changes. That you are resorting to such drivel just proves that you don't have any real argument to support your proposed change.
Personally, I love GE, and the PVP Arena. I have fun with GBG a bit. There are other changes that I really like, too. And others that I am not fond of. Pretty much everyone here (except you) takes each proposed change individually and judges it on its merits. Your proposed change has no merit.
Your example of giving someone money is a horrible analogy. The one about investing in a business, as @Emberguard said, is a much better analogy. You only get your money back if the business is successful (GB levels). If the business isn't successful (GB doesn't level for whatever reason), you don't. I am flabbergasted that we have to explain such a simple concept to you.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

With all due respect to @Emberguard, her analogy is flawed. Investors in a business fit into one of two categories, secured and unsecured. If that business succeeds, all benefit. However, if that business fails all of its assets are liquidated and the proceeds used to repay its creditors - secured creditors first with anything remaining going to the unsecured creditors. INNO chose to treat players with FPs on inactive accounts like "unsecured" creditors when they could have considered them like "secured" just as easily. Perhaps this is why the issue keeps bubbling up. Personally, I'm not concerned with FPs on dead accounts. Currently, I have over 120K invested in other's GBs and my list contains only 4 dead accounts. Small potatoes.