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Increased Attack Bonus has become less effective

Ozymandia

New Member
I have noticed that the more Attack Bonus I acquire, the less effective my troops have become. Having added more than 100 Attack Bonus, to my troops, with the last event, I am no longer able to absorb the same amount of attrition in GBG than I was before the event. Same for GE and GvG battles. Has INNO changed the parameters for Attack bonus?
I have heard others complaining about the same thing. Can anyone shine some light on this subject?
 

Ebeondi Asi

Well-Known Member
I agree on this. Something has ruined the effectiveness of high attack (+1100) and high attack army defense (+1100) bonus. Particularly in GbG when autobattle is pretty much required.
 

Xerosaur

Active Member
Wow - do I hear you.

But nope... think about it for a minute. Do we know what the backend AI parameters are for the warriors we're fighting? No. They are configurable! And they are configured... often!

We have anecdotal data (*such as you've presented) on the texture/feel of fighting with what you consider to be sizable (and I would agree) resource additions (boosts) to your warriors.

But quietly, Inno changes their AI "micro incrementally" as they meter out more client side war power to us. Be it a new event building giving A/D or both, or as they track the volumes and next purchase cost of war trinkets earned in GE, or the Auction dealer. They can retard or accelerate the availability of those too, each day or week.

In other words - they keep a game balance (Shhh! Yes they do!).

So while it seems you can get the upper hand with all these new things in your city as you earn them, you only make "2 steps forward, 1 step back" progress. Of 1/2 a step back, or 1.5 steps back. Unless you "super-massively" change course and bulk add stuff, you might not see that "overwhealming" desired effect.

Yeah, I can't wait for the 25% defense boost I get from event building X that I worked for during a 3 week journey. But it's almost as if I have to do that to stay current, with my lower lip just as the water's edge.

They can't continue to let us run amok with war trinkets and buildings make cyborg warriors that can't be stopped, they have to balance each season with metrics on how we as a community (world) of players all get stronger. The AI and investment in "being the Wizard of Oz" behind the curtain, fiddling with critical controls that balance the game and remove some of our purchased or won or earned advantages, are in evidence.

The gerbil on a treadmill thinks he/she's making progress, too.
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
You all need to provide a lot more information if you want meaningful responses (or you can go with conspiracy guy above). I'm going to presume none of you (at least) changed your eras. How about how high could you get before the change? is it just this season you are seeing the issue? What was the attack/defense score before and after the change (for those that changed their score)? How many battles have you now lost at the higher attrition values (be specific as to the attrition levels).

After we do all that we need to discuss which troops you are using and in what age (the ones with those extra attack "x" percentage of the time could be impacting your results (again depending on numbers). I've seen no decrease in my attrition levels in OF (minor increase to my defense scores recently).
 

Tunka Manin

New Member
every since I started playing this game, I kind of realized Boosters don't amount to much in battle. Very little but that's it. But HEY! A little is better than nothing am I right?
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
every since I started playing this game, I kind of realized Boosters don't amount to much in battle. Very little but that's it. But HEY! A little is better than nothing am I right?

It's a question of how much attack boost you have (this isn't referring to the attack potions or just what you can get from the tavern) that will impact how useful it will be to any given player. Troop selection matters (especially in some ages/eras) as well as whether you want to autobattle or manual battle or some combination of each.

If you want to discuss specifics give a bit more information and we can gear our responses to be more meaningful to you. There's generic advice but while valid it won't necessarily be feasible for you in the short term.
 

Tunka Manin

New Member
It's a question of how much attack boost you have (this isn't referring to the attack potions or just what you can get from the tavern) that will impact how useful it will be to any given player. Troop selection matters (especially in some ages/eras) as well as whether you want to autobattle or manual battle or some combination of each.

If you want to discuss specifics give a bit more information and we can gear our responses to be more meaningful to you. There's generic advice but while valid it won't necessarily be feasible for you in the short term.
well for example, I've been accidently camping in EMA for about a year now, and I mostly manual battle. I have a few watch towers but that's about it. I think it amounts to 30% before a potion (there seems to be only 1 type of attack potion). ANd I would think it would equalize with ages because you generally only get to fight the same age no matter where you do it.
 

ant..

Member
When auto battling in GBG with no attrition, I can tell exactly when my potion boost or tavern boost run out. They matter.
I can see where it would be hard to notice when only manual battling though.
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
well for example, I've been accidently camping in EMA for about a year now, and I mostly manual battle. I have a few watch towers but that's about it. I think it amounts to 30% before a potion (there seems to be only 1 type of attack potion). ANd I would think it would equalize with ages because you generally only get to fight the same age no matter where you do it.

A few things then:

1) A watch tower is in GBG not a players city. In GBG that does not add to your attack or your defense it has to do with the chance that you would increase your attrition. Do you mean watchfire? If that is the case it gives a defense boost to your army defending your city (not when you attack).

2) There are actually three types of attack boosts from potions: 20%, 10%, and 5%. The thing is those boosts are on the base attack number of the unit you are using (it doesn't take into consideration any other boosts). So if your unit has an attack of 50 and you use a 10% potion it would have an attack of 55.

3) Attack boosts can be very useful so generally speaking the more the better (it's not quite that simple but we can get into that later). You want to be able to kill the enemy units with 2 hits that's the advantage of better attack. It gives you a better chance of killing the enemy in 2 hits and a dead enemy doesn't shoot back (whether it's manual or autobattle). Note: there is a rather large great building (Arctic Orangery) that can sometimes turn that into a 1 hit kill but it may not be of a lot of value to you at the moment (again we can discuss that after a bit more information comes out). One trick to boost your attack power quickly besides the potion is to use tavern silver to get another boost. So if you already have your zues and COA to level 10 (30% boost apiece), use an attack potion of 20% and the tavern silver your hypothetical attack number would be base 50 + 15 (zues) + 15 (COA) + 15 (tavern) + 10 (attack potion 20%) = 105 attack.

4) Another factor in battles is your defense boost while attacking. Note that this is different from the defense boost for your defending army. You need to make sure you are placing the right Great Buildings and other buildings to get the boost that you want to get for your game purposes. So in this case with the same factors in #3 above and a theoretical defense rating of 50 your defense score while attacking would be 50 + 15 (zues) +15 (COA) +0 (attack potion doesn't add to the defense of your attacking army) + 0 (tavern attack boost doesn't add to your defense of your attacking army for an defense score = 80. This score will determine how much damage your army takes while fighting. Generally speaking attack is easier to get so it's better to grow that 1st so you can reliably get 2 shot kills (or better) and then work on your defense score as this will help lessen your loss of troops.

5) While manual battling are you on PC? If so you can see the turn order of the enemy units which lets you pick which enemy units to kill. In EMA it's generally better to kill a unit before it can fire as that will lessen the damage you take and give you an advantage. We can go into this more as a separate question if you want more details.

6) You can actually proceed on the Continental Map as far as you can either fight or negotiate so you can actually face troops of higher ages. You may not want to advance to far without doing some research because if you are careful you can get some unattached troops of higher ages which can be useful for you.

7) Do you have any rogue hideouts? Rogues take a day to train but they can be very useful in fighting.

8) GE while you don't face higher age troops the higher the level the higher the enemy attack/defense boost is for that encounter. As you age up the enemy GE boosts increase. GBG you never face higher aged troops but each battle you add to your attrition (assuming your guild hasn't built enough camps and watchtowers to make the fighting attritionless) so you'll want better attack and defense so that you can fight higher and higher. Eventually if you get your boosts high enough you can autobattle and get more battles in on GBG or at least faster battles.

Let me know if you have follow up questions.
 

Ebeondi Asi

Well-Known Member
A few things then:
2) There are actually three types of attack boosts from potions: 20%, 10%, and 5%. The thing is those boosts are on the base attack number of the unit you are using (it doesn't take into consideration any other boosts). So if your unit has an attack of 50 and you use a 10% potion it would have an attack of 55.
The math is incorrect. (not to criticize just to make clear the bottle boost is also addative like all others) The bottle boost is exactly like all other boost. it is additive not multiplying. So the 10% boost to 50% would be 60%
A bottle 10% boost to attack value of 1200% would be 1210%
When I had 800% I would use the bottle 20% plus the 30% tavern. Now I am over 1100% and I do not bother with the bottle or Tavern anymore
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
The math is incorrect. (not to criticize just to make clear the bottle boost is also addative like all others) The bottle boost is exactly like all other boost. it is additive not multiplying. So the 10% boost to 50% would be 60%
A bottle 10% boost to attack value of 1200% would be 1210%
When I had 800% I would use the bottle 20% plus the 30% tavern. Now I am over 1100% and I do not bother with the bottle or Tavern anymore

So show the correct math if you are saying i'm incorrect. The point of my math was to provide an actual example so if i did it wrong show your work. :)

Note: assuming you are referring to point #2 please read it again. The 50 refers to the attack value of the unboosted unit and is not a reflection of the attack boost number. It's not a percent. If you are referring to something else then please elaborate so that the poster will thus get the correct information.
 
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Xerosaur

Active Member
Here's the math. You can verify this easily via watching your totals for your Attacking Army in the BOOST overview tab, found in your townhall.

So let's make it easy. You have no additional tavern boosts or potions consumed (YET). Your attack % from all your buildings, trinkets etc. are

674% attack (red sword) and 566% defense (Red Shield).

Go into your inventory, and consume (use) a 20% attack potion. Go look in townhall now.

Your NEW totals in townhall are now 694% attack, 566% defense.

Now - that 694% attack is applied as a % BOOST to your soldiers on the battlefield. If your soldier has 120 BASE attack, then 694% on TOP of120 is: 120 x 7.94 = 952.8 or rounding up: 953 attack (NOT %).

The boost % you drink (use) or buy for silver are ADDED to your current boost %, and after that add, it's ALL then multiplied by the base boost of your warrior to determine how they present to the enemy.
 
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wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
Here's the math. You can verify this easily via watching your totals for your Attacking Army in the BOOST overview tab, found in your townhall.

So let's make it easy. You have no additional tavern boosts or potions consumed (YET). Your attack % from all your buildings, trinkets etc. are

674% attack (red sword) and 566% defense (Red Shield).

Go into your inventory, and consume (use) a 20% attack potion. Go look in townhall now.

Your NEW totals in townhall are now 694% attack, 500% defense.

Now - that 694% attack is applied as a % BOOST to your soldiers on the battlefield. If your soldier has 120 BASE attack, then 694% on TOP of120 is: 120 x 7.94 = 952.8 or rounding up: 953 attack (NOT %).

The boost % you drink (use) or buy for silver are ADDED to your current boost %, and after that add, it's ALL then multiplied by the base boost of your warrior to determine how they present to the enemy.

That's nice. I meant for him to correct MY math which he said was wrong. You'll note that my post refers to the unit's BASE attack number which is NOT a percentage but the actual attack value that the unit was created with by Inno (no boost). thanks for the info though. I'm already well aware it's additive which is what I put in my post. Pretty sure he didn't read my post correctly. But that's why i asked for the math he said I did wrong. there's no frame of reference other than him saying 'the math is wrong". Given that I have multiple points with multiple math being done it's polite to indicate which one is incorrect. In other words you and he are doing the math on the boost whereas I'm doing on the base unit value. Do notice the lack of a percentage sign on my actual calculation as well.
 
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Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
The math is incorrect. (not to criticize just to make clear the bottle boost is also addative like all others) The bottle boost is exactly like all other boost. it is additive not multiplying. So the 10% boost to 50% would be 60%
His math is correct and your math is correct, but you're talking about two different things. His post refers to the attack rating, not the boost percentage. So, here is his math:
10% boost to 50 attack rating=55 attack rating (base attack rating of 50 with no other boosts)
And your math:
10% boost added to 50% boost=60% boost (with a base attack rating of 50, this would result in a boosted attack rating of 80)
Both are mathematically correct.
 

centaurgod

Member
Same here , 1363 attack and am lucky if I get to 70 attrition now. Inno definitely messed something up.
I'm only at 420/350 and can easily get past 100 attrition with ease. If I use both a tavern and potion boost, I can get to 150 or better. Might I ask what age your in and what troops your using? At 1000+ you should be able to do 200+ attrition with ease.
 

BruteForceAttack

Well-Known Member
I'm only at 420/350 and can easily get past 100 attrition with ease. If I use both a tavern and potion boost, I can get to 150 or better. Might I ask what age your in and what troops your using? At 1000+ you should be able to do 200+ attrition with ease.
Not sure if you are referring to Attrition or Attack Penalty.


In the following screen 45 is the attrition and 431is the Attack Penalty.

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