Yew Wan Sum
New Member
Infinite Battle
First, there was Infinite Cycling via CF. Now there is infinite fighting!
Some history is in order. Back in 2021 I discovered a way to keep fighting indefinitely without running out of, or even using up any, troops. This discovery was made possible by two incredible and highly useful resources:
The higher age units guide is a labor of love that took a long time to put together. At first it was believed you needed to be in CE in order to do this, but eventually they worked all the way forward and back to identify the way to get up to OF troops in Indy. Truly a herculean effort!
Higher Age Units Guide v2.20 | Forge of Empires Forum
The FoElite spreadsheet showing attack/defense ratios is another amazing piece of work. I have found it to be accurate in terms of the actual mechanics of unit vs unit based SOLELY on attack and defense.
FoElite Ultimate Damage Calculator for Forge of Empires
I won’t go into the usage of each of these. You should check them out because they are awesome. It was only because of these two sources that I was able to discover and accomplish the Infinite Battle Lineup. Shoulders of giants, indeed.
The information in the FoElite Ultimate Damage Calculator alone is golden, but it does not reflect the true mechanics of battle in Foe. There is movement, initiative, special abilities, GB effects, etc. which all play a critical role.
What is obvious from the spreadsheet, however, is that once you surpass a 20:1 attack to defense ratio(attack value of your unit vs defense value of opposing unit), you are guaranteed a 1-hit kill on the opposing unit unless the unit has extra health or a special ability that reduces damage.
So...what if there was a way to create a lineup where the attacking units can all strike first, before any of the enemy units, and always do 1-hit kills? There is!
Knowing that I needed a 20:1 ratio for attack and defense, it simply wouldn’t be possible to attain this ratio while fighting using same age troops. This is where the Higher Age Units Guide above comes in. I figured I needed to find something that I could get in the lowest age possible(Indy) that had a really high base attack so that, once my attack bonus was taken into account, I could reach the 20:1 mark. Everyone raves about hovers, so I started there, but they are useless for our objective. They can’t reach and attack any enemy in round 1 and are not guaranteed to go first.
Say hello to my little friends….Recon Raiders! I set about looking at units to determine which ones may fit the need and I came across these often scoffed at troops. RR are an AF troop with movement of 36 and range of 9. For those unfamiliar, generally speaking but with a few special cases, the movement of a unit determines its initiative, or the order in which units act. 36 is higher than just about anything. Unless there is some special ability taking effect, RR are going to go first.
This means that Recon Raiders from AF when coupled against ANY lineup from Industrial Age, result in the Recon Raiders going first (no Indy troops have abilities like advanced deployment, etc. and Recon Raiders have almost the highest initiative of any troops in FoE) and since Recon Raiders have a movement of 36 plus a range of 9, they can easily cross any map and strike the enemy on 1st turn.
Now, can we guarantee a 1-hit? Yes! With at least 480% attack, the RR will have more than 20 times the defense of the toughest unit in Indy, the Jaeger Infantry. Careful, though. This is only at attrition 0. As attrition goes up in GBG, or as you get farther into GE, the enemy troops gain in strength. Here are some intervals for what attack% is needed for a given attrition level:
750% attack = 15 attrition
1000% attack = 23 attrition
1250% attack = 28 attrition
1500% attack = 33 attrition
1750% attack = 37 attrition
Bottom line: In Indy, a lineup of 8 Recon Raiders will completely wipe any and every Indy lineup instantly, without taking so much as a single point of damage. This allows you to fight infinitely while consuming zero troops, so long as your attrition says under the point at which the 20:1 ratio is attained. It’s simple to see via the damage calculator what value you need at what attrition.
Not to spout theory without results, I have accumulated hundreds of thousands of fights since I attained my AF and OF troops, and not lost a single troop. I have racked up 21K fights in a single GBG season. (The current record on Birka, at least as far as I’m aware)
IMPORTANT: There is still a caveat or two to discuss.
First, keep in mind what can stop this from working: Indy does not have any units with special abilities that interfere, but if you are facing other age units, you will run into units that make this approach fail. (Shields, Advanced Deployment, etc.) Also, when you are doing GE, you will see lineups with rogues and even drummers, etc. These can also mess up the no-damage, first hit, 1-hit kill. Switch to another formation for those(see below).
Second, sometimes the AI on FoE is just plain stupid.
VERY rarely, like 1 in 20-30 battles, the AI will pick a dumb target order or choose to move a Recon Raider without attacking. This usually happens on maps that have a lot of terrain. If you’ve ever watched the AI play, you’ll see sometimes it just stacks troops up one behind another rather than picking a different path. Also, a technicality of note is that starting in PE, the map scales distance by 1.5. Because you are using AF troops, you will be on at least an AF map, not the normal Indy ones. This is what I believe makes this occasional glitch possible. When this happens, you will accumulate 1 point of damage on 1 unit.
So far, the rate of this happening is so low that, on average, the diamonds I have won as a result of battles have more than paid for the cost of repairs. I just keep clicking autobattle until I see I need 2-3 heals(after 100+ battles), then click a heal all and press on.
Overall, battle is so fast, you are limited effectively by your internet connection latency to the server, the speed of your computer, and the programmed delay in FoE button response. On my machine, on a good day, I can consistently do less than 2 seconds a battle. (two wave battles require another click, rewards add yet another, etc.) There is no one faster in the guild, or that I have seen on the server. I never have to replace troops so I literally just mash the buttons. Without an exploit, the UI of FoE just doesnt go any faster than that.
So there it is, the Infinite Battle Lineup! But wait, there’s more!
Obviously, you want to manage your attrition so you can stay in the range of 1-hits. This is done by every big hitter in GBG already, so I won’t dwell on it much. Going beyond the ‘max’ attrition for Infinite Battle doesn’t mean you have to stop, of course. That’s the point that I switch to Turturret + 7 rogues. With that I can autobattle with minimal rogue losses until >100 attrition. I have gone up to 146 with autobattle.(Avoid lineups with more than 3 Lancers, i.e. fast units) Of course, your speed drops significantly when you do this because you are back to having to replace troops every now and then, and you will be spending diamonds to heal the Turturret here and there, but it’s enough that anyone with 1250% or more attack in a decent guild that builds camps should be able to pull in 1500 advances per day. Also, you will have a ton of rogues to burn through because you never need Indy troops so your Traz can kick out nothing but rogues every day. I have ~35K.
Other notes:
AO loses its value when using this strategy because you are never attacking same age units.
Mathematically and systematically this works in PE (but no higher), but I haven't personally done it.
Your +att%/+def ratio can be focused mostly on +att%. I use a 2:1 ratio +att% to +def%. More def allows you to go higher when IB-mode is over.
GE is cake, even GE5, BUT you should use hover or turturret + 7 rogues on the fights that have rogues, drummers, etc. otherwise your RRs will take some damage.
You might not need a Traz once you have sufficient rogues. I go through so few of them, and only after IB mode ends and I’m back to using turtle/rogue above 100 attrition, that I have a stock of about 40K. How many do I really need? At this point, being in Indy, the 70 squares might be better than a Traz.
Latency matters. Some Internet Service Providers read and track https traffic and it introduces latency. Using a VPN bypasses this overhead assuming you have a reasonably nearby VPN server location. It makes a noticeable difference in how fast I can battle. You need a reasonably fast machine too.
I hope you have enjoyed reading and next time you start a new city, give the Infinite Battle strategy a try! My home is on Birka and I'm already helping a few who are trying this and would happily assist others who want to see what its about.
Yew Wan Sum
First, there was Infinite Cycling via CF. Now there is infinite fighting!
Some history is in order. Back in 2021 I discovered a way to keep fighting indefinitely without running out of, or even using up any, troops. This discovery was made possible by two incredible and highly useful resources:
The higher age units guide is a labor of love that took a long time to put together. At first it was believed you needed to be in CE in order to do this, but eventually they worked all the way forward and back to identify the way to get up to OF troops in Indy. Truly a herculean effort!
Higher Age Units Guide v2.20 | Forge of Empires Forum
The FoElite spreadsheet showing attack/defense ratios is another amazing piece of work. I have found it to be accurate in terms of the actual mechanics of unit vs unit based SOLELY on attack and defense.
FoElite Ultimate Damage Calculator for Forge of Empires
I won’t go into the usage of each of these. You should check them out because they are awesome. It was only because of these two sources that I was able to discover and accomplish the Infinite Battle Lineup. Shoulders of giants, indeed.
The information in the FoElite Ultimate Damage Calculator alone is golden, but it does not reflect the true mechanics of battle in Foe. There is movement, initiative, special abilities, GB effects, etc. which all play a critical role.
What is obvious from the spreadsheet, however, is that once you surpass a 20:1 attack to defense ratio(attack value of your unit vs defense value of opposing unit), you are guaranteed a 1-hit kill on the opposing unit unless the unit has extra health or a special ability that reduces damage.
So...what if there was a way to create a lineup where the attacking units can all strike first, before any of the enemy units, and always do 1-hit kills? There is!
Knowing that I needed a 20:1 ratio for attack and defense, it simply wouldn’t be possible to attain this ratio while fighting using same age troops. This is where the Higher Age Units Guide above comes in. I figured I needed to find something that I could get in the lowest age possible(Indy) that had a really high base attack so that, once my attack bonus was taken into account, I could reach the 20:1 mark. Everyone raves about hovers, so I started there, but they are useless for our objective. They can’t reach and attack any enemy in round 1 and are not guaranteed to go first.
Say hello to my little friends….Recon Raiders! I set about looking at units to determine which ones may fit the need and I came across these often scoffed at troops. RR are an AF troop with movement of 36 and range of 9. For those unfamiliar, generally speaking but with a few special cases, the movement of a unit determines its initiative, or the order in which units act. 36 is higher than just about anything. Unless there is some special ability taking effect, RR are going to go first.
This means that Recon Raiders from AF when coupled against ANY lineup from Industrial Age, result in the Recon Raiders going first (no Indy troops have abilities like advanced deployment, etc. and Recon Raiders have almost the highest initiative of any troops in FoE) and since Recon Raiders have a movement of 36 plus a range of 9, they can easily cross any map and strike the enemy on 1st turn.
Now, can we guarantee a 1-hit? Yes! With at least 480% attack, the RR will have more than 20 times the defense of the toughest unit in Indy, the Jaeger Infantry. Careful, though. This is only at attrition 0. As attrition goes up in GBG, or as you get farther into GE, the enemy troops gain in strength. Here are some intervals for what attack% is needed for a given attrition level:
750% attack = 15 attrition
1000% attack = 23 attrition
1250% attack = 28 attrition
1500% attack = 33 attrition
1750% attack = 37 attrition
Bottom line: In Indy, a lineup of 8 Recon Raiders will completely wipe any and every Indy lineup instantly, without taking so much as a single point of damage. This allows you to fight infinitely while consuming zero troops, so long as your attrition says under the point at which the 20:1 ratio is attained. It’s simple to see via the damage calculator what value you need at what attrition.
Not to spout theory without results, I have accumulated hundreds of thousands of fights since I attained my AF and OF troops, and not lost a single troop. I have racked up 21K fights in a single GBG season. (The current record on Birka, at least as far as I’m aware)
IMPORTANT: There is still a caveat or two to discuss.
First, keep in mind what can stop this from working: Indy does not have any units with special abilities that interfere, but if you are facing other age units, you will run into units that make this approach fail. (Shields, Advanced Deployment, etc.) Also, when you are doing GE, you will see lineups with rogues and even drummers, etc. These can also mess up the no-damage, first hit, 1-hit kill. Switch to another formation for those(see below).
Second, sometimes the AI on FoE is just plain stupid.
VERY rarely, like 1 in 20-30 battles, the AI will pick a dumb target order or choose to move a Recon Raider without attacking. This usually happens on maps that have a lot of terrain. If you’ve ever watched the AI play, you’ll see sometimes it just stacks troops up one behind another rather than picking a different path. Also, a technicality of note is that starting in PE, the map scales distance by 1.5. Because you are using AF troops, you will be on at least an AF map, not the normal Indy ones. This is what I believe makes this occasional glitch possible. When this happens, you will accumulate 1 point of damage on 1 unit.
So far, the rate of this happening is so low that, on average, the diamonds I have won as a result of battles have more than paid for the cost of repairs. I just keep clicking autobattle until I see I need 2-3 heals(after 100+ battles), then click a heal all and press on.
Overall, battle is so fast, you are limited effectively by your internet connection latency to the server, the speed of your computer, and the programmed delay in FoE button response. On my machine, on a good day, I can consistently do less than 2 seconds a battle. (two wave battles require another click, rewards add yet another, etc.) There is no one faster in the guild, or that I have seen on the server. I never have to replace troops so I literally just mash the buttons. Without an exploit, the UI of FoE just doesnt go any faster than that.
So there it is, the Infinite Battle Lineup! But wait, there’s more!
Obviously, you want to manage your attrition so you can stay in the range of 1-hits. This is done by every big hitter in GBG already, so I won’t dwell on it much. Going beyond the ‘max’ attrition for Infinite Battle doesn’t mean you have to stop, of course. That’s the point that I switch to Turturret + 7 rogues. With that I can autobattle with minimal rogue losses until >100 attrition. I have gone up to 146 with autobattle.(Avoid lineups with more than 3 Lancers, i.e. fast units) Of course, your speed drops significantly when you do this because you are back to having to replace troops every now and then, and you will be spending diamonds to heal the Turturret here and there, but it’s enough that anyone with 1250% or more attack in a decent guild that builds camps should be able to pull in 1500 advances per day. Also, you will have a ton of rogues to burn through because you never need Indy troops so your Traz can kick out nothing but rogues every day. I have ~35K.
Other notes:
AO loses its value when using this strategy because you are never attacking same age units.
Mathematically and systematically this works in PE (but no higher), but I haven't personally done it.
Your +att%/+def ratio can be focused mostly on +att%. I use a 2:1 ratio +att% to +def%. More def allows you to go higher when IB-mode is over.
GE is cake, even GE5, BUT you should use hover or turturret + 7 rogues on the fights that have rogues, drummers, etc. otherwise your RRs will take some damage.
You might not need a Traz once you have sufficient rogues. I go through so few of them, and only after IB mode ends and I’m back to using turtle/rogue above 100 attrition, that I have a stock of about 40K. How many do I really need? At this point, being in Indy, the 70 squares might be better than a Traz.
Latency matters. Some Internet Service Providers read and track https traffic and it introduces latency. Using a VPN bypasses this overhead assuming you have a reasonably nearby VPN server location. It makes a noticeable difference in how fast I can battle. You need a reasonably fast machine too.
I hope you have enjoyed reading and next time you start a new city, give the Infinite Battle strategy a try! My home is on Birka and I'm already helping a few who are trying this and would happily assist others who want to see what its about.
Yew Wan Sum
