Is Hagia Sofia worth it for FP?

[Agent327]

hagias dead. throw it in the bin with coloseum,notre, dame, space needle, etc.

Weird. Last time I looked mine was alive and kicking and giving me 48 fp a day.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

again, your making up your own versions/interpretations of what i said, and attributing it to me in false quotes.

You are correct. I applaud you for spotting the paraphrase.

"if you dont understand, youre just not as smart a i am," is me distilling your other posts down to their essence and relaying them back to you in the way they are perceived. The subtext below the text, as it were. I know we're getting deep into thought here, hope you can keep up.

 

[Graviton]

bravo. (slow clap.)

your analysis is clearly flawed, because you didn't mention the people that it works for, than later does not work for. you also didn't mention the people that it doesn't work for, than later does work for.

My "analysis" is just a general statement that covers each of those situations, since those players all fall under "some". I was trying to discourage attitudes such as yours, that your subjective opinion is objective. I see that I have failed.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

my 'zero % defense equals profits' thread holds enough track record of proving people wrong. i don't need to keep doing it.
i'll just let people know where the finish line is, so they can find their own way there if they want.

Because the analysis works. It doesn't take 19 pages and 170 x 6 weeks of results to prove. Just because a zero sum analysis works in one area, doesn't mean it can be applied to other areas. Unlike defense structures, FP GBs are not zero sum.

 

[DeletedUser]

my 'zero % defense equals profits' thread holds enough track record of proving people wrong.

Yeah, whatever. You didn't prove anything with that thread. Certainly not that your word is to be unquestioned on unrelated subjects. In fact, your faulty analysis here calls into question your views on other matters, especially since you're using tricks like changing posts after they've been replied to.

 

[plinker2]

Let's all remain civil and have some manners please. Thanks!

 

[Mustapha00]

Weird. Last time I looked mine was alive and kicking and giving me 48 fp a day.

Well, obviously, you're doing something wrong.

Don't you know that Hagia is a "dead" GB?

 

[Agent327]

Well, obviously, you're doing something wrong.

Don't you know that Hagia is a "dead" GB?

I don't mind dead this way.

 

[DeletedUser30312]

We should account for the Hagia's comparably excessive size, which results in massive amounts of lost production when compared to some other FP-generating GBs. For example, although the CdM is more expensive to level, it leaves an extra 17 spaces worth of real estate to generate FPs with (or goods, etc). And for many players (particularly fighters...i.e. the ones that would build CdM regardless) , the secondary boost from the CdM far outweighs the happiness of Hagia (because Traz meets their happiness needs). An extra 17 spaces is enough for at least 3 SoKs (depending on road setups, maybe a 4th, but I assume 1 road touching each SoK, therefore 1fp per 5 squares on a row of SoKs = .2fps/square. Therefore, 17 squares = 3.4 fps every day. And that doesn't take into account the FPs that can be bought from the coin income on the SoKs).

Well, the Hagia's size is one of the main caveats I tend to mention when weighing the pros and cons, that 7x6 is a fairly significant footprint. Then taking into account that the Hagia is best built early rather than late, when a player doesn't have as much room for it, that becomes a disadvantage.

I wouldn't argue the virtues of the Hagia vs the CdM though. In my view, the CdM is an essential GB, while the Hagia is optional and more of a luxury. So I'd advise any given player to build the CdM regardless, while saying the Hagia is useful but not necessary and requires commitment to leveling as well.

Basically my view boils down to this: the Hagia is a useful GB for FP production provided that the player builds it relatively early and plans to level it to at least level 15. It can be a useful alternative to a SoKs, especially since it can be further leveled past 15/17 and produce more FP and won't require the aid the SoKs need. But the happiness will be obsolete eventually, the footprint is large for the early ages where it is best built, and the Hagia is probably not strongly future proof and is at risk of becoming obsolete in the future.

 

[DeletedUser31308]

Well, the Hagia's size is one of the main caveats I tend to mention when weighing the pros and cons, that 7x6 is a fairly significant footprint. Then taking into account that the Hagia is best built early rather than late, when a player doesn't have as much room for it, that becomes a disadvantage.

I wouldn't argue the virtues of the Hagia vs the CdM though. In my view, the CdM is an essential GB, while the Hagia is optional and more of a luxury. So I'd advise any given player to build the CdM regardless, while saying the Hagia is useful but not necessary and requires commitment to leveling as well.

Basically my view boils down to this: the Hagia is a useful GB for FP production provided that the player builds it relatively early and plans to level it to at least level 15. It can be a useful alternative to a SoKs, especially since it can be further leveled past 15/17 and produce more FP and won't require the aid the SoKs need. But the happiness will be obsolete eventually, the footprint is large for the early ages where it is best built, and the Hagia is probably not strongly future proof and is at risk of becoming obsolete in the future.

The happiness isn't obsolete for me, and mine is level 60. You have to get your happiness from somewhere, and it takes a hell of a lot of it to support my level 60+ IT. I needed to push both my Traz/HS to 60 to get out of the red, and I'm still not even to the 120% boost yet, so I could still technically benefit from even more happiness. Just saying, for end game players that intend to rocket FP buildings including IT, happiness is still essential unless you're fine with losing half the military rank points you would have gotten and half your coin/supply production.

 

[Agent327]

But the happiness will be obsolete eventually, the footprint is large for the early ages where it is best built, and the Hagia is probably not strongly future proof and is at risk of becoming obsolete in the future.

Did you try this or are you just speculating?

 

[Woody*]

... at risk of becoming obsolete in the future.

We agree on the Hagia/CdM for the most part, but I don't think it will become obsolete anytime soon. Mine produces 42fps/day, which is .977 fps/square if you include the 1 road that connects it.

 

[DeletedUser30312]

Did you try this or are you just speculating?

It's been mentioned before that the Hagia's happiness eventually starts getting outpaced by the happiness from polished ME culture buildings and that FE's culture buildings can beat it unpolished. IIRC, those numbers were for a Hagia roughly around level 10. A Hagia pushed well past level 10 might keep pace better, but I'm not going to check the math on it right now. I'm speculating on the future here. It could still be a useful building no matter what Inno introduces in the future, but I wouldn't make assumptions on it either.

 

[DeletedUser31470]

It's been mentioned before that the Hagia's happiness eventually starts getting outpaced by the happiness from polished ME culture buildings and that FE's culture buildings can beat it unpolished. IIRC, those numbers were for a Hagia roughly around level 10. A Hagia pushed well past level 10 might keep pace better, but I'm not going to check the math on it right now. I'm speculating on the future here. It could still be a useful building no matter what Inno introduces in the future, but I wouldn't make assumptions on it either.

I have Hagia level 60 and just looked for the data. It provides 15677 happiness, which would be 373 happiness per tile. Closest polished non-premium cultural building is FE weather control station, which gives 191 happiness per square (382 when polished) and requires a road.

If you want to match that unmotivated, you need to go to the OF cultural buildings.

This assumes that you have Hagia solely for happiness of course, and completely neglects that those 42 tiles produces 36 FPs a day on top of that happiness.

 

[DeletedUser30312]

That's not bad at all, but level 60 is moderately high. Perhaps higher than reasonable for a casual player, but not for someone with a monster Arc.

I don't think the Hagia's happiness is completely worthless, but later and later in the game it's going to be harder to keep up with it. However, with a Traz and maybe one other happiness GB (I'd go with the FoD myself, as all the rest are mediocre or just plain crap) as well the newer event buildings that offer pretty good bonuses on top of happiness, a city's needs can probably be met unless the population is cranked through the roof, like say if someone jacked up a IT ridiculuously high.

 

[Agent327]

That's not bad at all, but level 60 is moderately high. Perhaps higher than reasonable for a casual player, but not for someone with a monster Arc.

I don't think the Hagia's happiness is completely worthless, but later and later in the game it's going to be harder to keep up with it. However, with a Traz and maybe one other happiness GB (I'd go with the FoD myself, as all the rest are mediocre or just plain crap) as well the newer event buildings that offer pretty good bonuses on top of happiness, a city's needs can probably be met unless the population is cranked through the roof, like say if someone jacked up a IT ridiculuously high.

It is nice you have an opinion, but you are rather clueless about the game in the later era's. Go have a look at the top players in an older world and see what they have build. Then ask yourself why.

 

[Kranyar the Mysterious]

It is nice you have an opinion, but you are rather clueless about the game in the later era's. Go have a look at the top players in an older world and see what they have build. Then ask yourself why.

Looking around at a lot of my VF friends' cities, I often wonder WTF they are thinking for having some of the buildings they have. There are a lot of high level poorly designed cities out there. Some awesomely amazingly built ones too.

Often long time players will be top heavy with older buildings because that was what was available when they started building their city.

These same players are also likely to keep older buildings even if they have become obsolete, because that is what they have and are used to. Sometimes it is because they like the look, so who cares, or maybe they have sentimental attachment to it. Also with great buildings, no one wants to get rid of a building they have dumped a ton of fp into and lose all that work.

Nothing wrong with that, it's totally understandable, but that is the answer I come up with all too often when I ask myself "why".

 

[Emberguard]

My view: yes. It's worth it if you're doing FP swaps as that brings the cost down. If you're purely self lvl'ing then no GB is going to be worth it. Even lvl 1 the Hagia fully pays for itself within 2 months (of course you'll want it to be higher then that).

Should it be built straight away? Depends on the player and what else is in the city. In any case unless you're camping you're going to need to increase your FP income just to complete event quests and the Hagia is a great way to do that. It's far more efficient to have multiple low lvl FP GBs then just one lvl'd sky high.

Bottom line, it's the cheapest FP GB out there. As long as you have space it's worth it. I was using more space with cultural buildings then the Hagia takes up before it was placed. It boils down to whether or not there's something better for the space you've got. You've got enough space for every FP GB out there if you want and lvl'ing several at a time is cheaper overall for the output then leveling one at a time.

 

[DeletedUser26432]

in the long run it it worth it when you get it leveled up
atm i have
70 Hagia
70 Arctic Orangery
72 Cape Canaveral
70 Castle De Monte
60 Innovation Tower
for fp buildings in the Colonial age. This was only possible because i spent like 6 months only leveling my Arc without 1.9 locks.
Soon as i get my happyness up from traz it will be inno to 70 Then kraken till i run out of bps. Hagia is worth it because you Never can have enough Fps.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

A. Entirely self leveled, no swaps and no free contributions... paid for from Bar FPs (hourly, GE, DC rewards, etc.). Total cost to level 500 FPs. Number of FPs rewards earned in inventory - Zero. Net cost to level. 500 FPs.
B . Entirely swap in the threads, with out adding any to their GB or no free contributions... paid for from Bar FPs (hourly, GE, DC rewards, etc.) ... 25% of total FPs to level returned as rewards. Total cost to level - 500 FPs. Number of FPs rewards earned in inventory - 125 FPs. Net cost to level - 375 FPs.
C. Any combination of A and B... Total cost to level - 500 FPs. Number of FPs rewards earned in inventory - Between A and B. Net cost to owner to level - Between A and B.

You can't just do half the math.