Is Hagia Sofia worth it for FP?

[DeletedUser31470]

If you self-level completely, you are not taking it seriously. Get a decent guild, everyone will be happy to give you the reward to your GB to lock the spots, even without Arc (let's say you need 500 to level it, there is 50 FP reward on first spot, don't tell me you won't find a guildie willing to put those 50 there if it locks the first spot for them)... and then, your net cost will be same as with swap threads, so yea...

 

[RazorbackPirate]

they still have to pay 500 to level.

the 25% won in rewards does not reduce cost to level.

Whatever dude. As you've proved from previous threads, math is not your strong suit. Also look up Net cost. Seems you might learn something.

swapping does not reduce the cost of leveling GB.
if Fp prizes are won from swapping, those prizes can be used to increase the speed of leveling future levels...but it does not decrease the cost

the only thing that decreases the owners cost to level GB's , is getting free contributions through random donations or 1.8/1.9 threads.

Once again, incorrect formulas leading to incorrect conclusions. Rewards reduce the net cost to level. While 500 FPs still passed through my hands to level the one GB, I now have 125 more FPs to do something else with. You can either save by rewards, or save through contributions, either way you save.

 

[DeletedUser]

they still have to pay 500 to level.

the 25% won in rewards does not reduce cost to level.

Ha ha ha ha...oh, wait, you're serious?

 

[DeletedUser]

nobody was talking about 'net cost' until you just made it up and interested it into the conversation.

you might want to look up 'reducing the cost'


rewards don't reduce the cost
when you swap, you can win extra FP's to do other things with... that's entirely different than reducing the cost.

You apparently never took an accounting or bookkeeping course, did you? Start with 500 FP. Spend them in swaps. Your GB levels. The other GB(s) level. You receive 125 FP in rewards from those GBs. You end with 125 FP. Net expense is 375 FP. Simple debit and credit calculation.

 

[Woody*]

swap threads do not reduce cost of leveling GB's

They can sometimes reduce the cost if the player is in a swap that entices people to add more on their own. You just can't count on it

 

[DeletedUser21322]

Please be respectful or this thread will be closed

 

[DeletedUser]

glad to see you agree with me.

I don't agree with you. I mean, I could agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

 

[DeletedUser34800]

Seems pretty obvious to me.

If I spend $500 on an item, I am still spending $500 on the item regardless of any mail in or checkout rebates. If they give me $125 mail in rebate for purchasing the item, I still had to spend $500 buying the item to qualify for the $125 rebate. Once I send it in, sure, the $500 I spent on the item can be said to only cost $375 because I made $125 from the rebate, but I still had to purchase the item for $500 and then mail in the rebate.

If I spend 500 FPs in a swap with a friend, I am still giving them 500 FPs to their GB so they will give me 500 FPs in mine. Once their GB levels, I will get 125 FPs back, but I still had to spend 500 FPs in the process. Like a mail in rebate.

Sure, I can then spend the 125 FPs on whatever I want, but I still had to spend that 500 FPs to get them. It can't be factored in to reduce the cost because it didn't. I still had to spend 500. Sure, I get 125 back, but I still had to spend 500 to get those 125 back. If I didn't spend the 500, I wouldn't receive the 125 ever.

Of course, I could CHOOSE to put those 125 FPs right back into my GB, thus reducing the leveling cost, but it doesn't directly reduce the leveling cost, and I think that's the main argument here.

Sure, I could choose to do that, but I could also choose not to. So those FPs don't directly reduce the cost, but indirectly reduce the cost if I want them too.

I think that's what's being discussed currently. The rest is just opinion.

Ex: would I invest those FPs right back into my GB, thus reducing the overall cost to level? No. I would save them for whatever later. Thus they don't reduce my GB leveling cost.

Would someone else just toss them right into the GB they're leveling? Absolutely. And it would then reduce the cost to level said GB.

To each their own. Fancy economic language doesn't really change this point. Still gotta spend the FPs to earn any back, and then have to choose to put them right into the GB you are leveling in order for them to be considered reducing the cost.

 

[DeletedUser]

Fancy economic language doesn't really change this point.

It's not "Fancy economic language", it's one of the most basic concepts of accounting. In fact, it's actually not even fancy enough to be called accounting, it's basic bookkeeping. I learned it my second year of high school. No, that's wrong. I learned it the very first time I ever spent money to buy something. A candy bar, or a comic book or some such thing that a kid in grade school would buy. If it helps simplify it for you, think of it as making change. If you buy $3.75 worth of food at a fast food place and give them a $5 bill, you'll get $1.25 in change. You're saying that you still spent $5, even though you got $1.25 in change, and that's just crazy. Is that still too fancy for you?

 

[DeletedUser34800]

It's not "Fancy economic language", it's one of the most basic concepts of accounting. In fact, it's actually not even fancy enough to be called accounting, it's basic bookkeeping. I learned it my second year of high school. No, that's wrong. I learned it the very first time I ever spent money to buy something. A candy bar, or a comic book or some such thing that a kid in grade school would buy. If it helps simplify it for you, think of it as making change. If you buy $3.75 worth of food at a fast food place and give them a $5 bill, you'll get $1.25 in change. You're saying that you still spent $5, even though you got $1.25 in change, and that's just crazy. Is that still too fancy for you?

Since I get called out for being an ass, so can you. Calm down.

Yes, the point is obvious. Sure, it's not fucking super fancy terms, it was just an expression I used. Christ man.

Also, yes, I agree that it's also like change. But Empire isn't thinking about this as change. He's thinking about it as a $5 charge no matter what. Hence my rebate analogy. It's a $5 charge no matter what. Not a $3.75 because you got change. $5. Who says they level the GB right away? You don't get the return till they do. So, mail in rebate. You don't get the change till they send it to you.


Honestly though, come on. Both are the exact same thing, except a rebate is change you get from the mail.

Anyways, point being, it still doesn't DIRECTLY reduce the leveling cost. Only INDIRECTLY because I still have to decide to use those returned FPs to level the GB.

I really think that's the main distinction between the two points. One views the gained FPs as a return of value then put directly into the GB to reduce the cost of leveling. The other decides to save the FPs because they want to, so there isn't a reduced cost because those saved FPs don't actually go towards the GBs level.

Either way, THIS ARGUMENT IS POINTLESS and I definitely regret adding my words to it. Shit. The question has already been answered, about a billion times on this damn forum.

Fucking build the Hagia Sophia because you want extra FPs at an increasing scale for your FPs put in. It will pay for itself in the long term.

Or don't build it because it's massive and there are better options for the space in the short term.

Main point: happiness sucks.

 

[DeletedUser]

Anyways, point being, it still doesn't DIRECTLY reduce the leveling cost. Only INDIRECTLY because I still have to decide to use those returned FPs to level the GB.

It does DIRECTLY reduce the leveling cost because you're only out 375 FP instead of 500. The hypothetical case we're using assumes you get 125 FP in rewards. Whether you get it today or tomorrow, you still get it, and it still DIRECTLY reduces your out of pocket expense for getting 500 FP worth of leveling on your GB. You have a net payout of 375 FP, your GB receives 500 FP in donations. That is DIRECTLY less than if you put 500 FP on your own GB. You can spend those 125 FP on that GB, or on tech, or on whatever the heck you want, but you still have only spent 375 FP to get 500 FP on your GB. I'd hate to have you two as financial advisors.

Incidentally, I am calm. Merely mystified as to how such easy math could be so hard for you two to understand.

 

[DeletedUser34800]

Okay. They never level the GB because they suck. Guess you don't get those FPs back. Oh well.

Anyways whatever man. I don't care if you want me as your financial advisor. I'm not one and my finances are fine in my life.

I'm mystified by the fact that no one here understands the difference between directly and indirectly. That's the real issue. Seriously. It only reduces the cost to level if you use the reward FPs to actually level the GB. Otherwise, it still costs the 500 to level. If you don't use them towards the GB, the cost is still 500. If you spend the 125 on another GB, you've effectively reduced that GBs cost to level by 125 reward FPs. But since you didn't use them on the GB in question, then the cost is still the same.

That's what I am getting at. Spend $500 on a TV. Company says theyll give you $125 back after you spend the $500, once they send it to you. Still costs you $500 to buy the damn TV, which is what Empire is saying. Once you get the $125 you can then CHOOSE to pay off your credit card/add it to your checking to pay back some of the cost for the TV, but you still paid an initial $500. Or you can choose to then take $125 to go to dinner. TV still cost $500 to buy.

How is that hard to get?

Look, I get your point. You get $125 back, so effectively you're only spending $375 total. But the $125 gained back later doesn't reduce the initial cost, which again, is Empires point.

If you don't have 500 FPs to spend on the GB for the swap, you won't get the 125 back. You have to have 500 to gain back 125.

 

[DeletedUser]

That's what I am getting at. Spend $500 on a TV. Company says theyll give you $125 back after you spend the $500, once they send it to you. Still costs you $500 to buy the damn TV, which is what Empire is saying. Once you get the $125 you can then CHOOSE to pay off your credit card/add it to your checking to pay back some of the cost for the TV, but you still paid an initial $500. Or you can choose to then take $125 to go to dinner. TV still cost $500 to buy.

You negate your own point here. If you put it on a credit card, then you didn't pay $500. You didn't pay anything until you then pay the credit card. So if you use the $125 to help pay the credit card, you are only then paying $375 out of pocket for the TV. Thanks for making my point, even though you still don't seem to get it.

 

[DeletedUser34800]

Fine. Pay in cash. Not credit card. So you pay directly the $500 then wait for however long to receive the $125 back.

Still had to pay the $500.

Anyways, honestly, I don't give a damn. I was just trying to help expand on Empires point. Maybe alleviate the argument a bit, but that didn't work. I'm done wasting my time talking about this.

Build the Hagia Sophia if you want more FPs, ever increasing, for the same size but costs FPs. Or just skip it to build other things in the space.

Arguing the point of reduced cost is just stupid. Why? Because I have a HS and I like it. Piss off with reducing cost. It gives me FPs.

 

[DeletedUser]

I was just trying to help expand on Empires point.

Empire didn't have a valid point. He was using only data that validated his pre-conceived notions. I couldn't care less about "cost to level", but if someone is going to come on here and spout nonsense that only takes into account what they want to take into account, I'll probably say something about it.

 

[DeletedUser34800]

@Stephen Longshanks

All right. I get that. As I said, I was just trying to expand on his point. I honestly don't have a bone to pick here because I already built the HS and like it since I love FPs and any way to get more I do.

Also, I apologize for any attitude and offense I had. It wasn't called for to be honest, but I was frustrated trying to explain something from someone else's point of view.

Both sides make sense to me, and I can see both points. Doesn't mean I gotta get pissy.

 

[Emberguard]

nobody was talking about 'net cost' until you just made it up and interested it into the conversation.

you might want to look up 'reducing the cost'


rewards don't reduce the cost
when you swap, you can win extra FP's to do other things with... that's entirely different than reducing the cost.

It increases the net profit, gross profit would also increase

Net profit = after all expense and profit taken into account
Gross profit = profit without counting expense

Net cost on the other hand would be calculated in the opposite manner. All your costs - the profit.

The initial cost is what you seem to be referring to, which would be gross cost. And you're right, you'd still have to fork out 500 FPs regardless. That's your investment amount. But it wouldn't have to be all at once. Contribution rewards act as a partial refund on your investment, which is why net cost is reduced

However we're talking about whether the Hagia is worth building. If you receive 25% of the cost to lvl back from lvling in a swap then that needs to be factored into how long it takes for it to pay itself off as that's a result of lvl'ing your Hagia. Without the Hagia you'd have no swap, therefore swap returns that were a result of building up your Hagia mitigate the cost of lvl'ing the Hagia.

Which then brings another question into play, when should it be built? If you have the Arc first then it's even more cost efficient in it's return as they interact with each other if you're using swaps for your Hagia. However you may not have the FPs to be lvl'ing your arc up fast enough to be focusing entirely on your Arc prior to constructing other FP GBs (even if they're left in low levels before coming back to the Arc).


If we don't factor in the returns from contribution rewards then there is not a single FP GB that would be worth it.

But we know they are worth it because players are able to reach the beginning of Virtual Future in 2 years without spending diamonds or being avid FP buyers. But if you only had base income it'd take you 5 years

 

[DeletedUser]

@Stephen Longshanks

All right. I get that. As I said, I was just trying to expand on his point. I honestly don't have a bone to pick here because I already built the HS and like it since I love FPs and any way to get more I do.

Also, I apologize for any attitude and offense I had. It wasn't called for to be honest, but I was frustrated trying to explain something from someone else's point of view.

Both sides make sense to me, and I can see both points. Doesn't mean I gotta get pissy.

My apologies to you, also. It seems we agree on the Hagia, as I build it in every city I have as soon as I'm able.

 

[DeletedUser13838]

If you have room to build Hagia you build it. If you can build Kraken Cape or AO etc before Hagia then sure build those first but most people will be able to build HS and level it up before they'll be able to build those other GBs. The idea that fp producing event buildings are woth building instead of Hagia is ridiculous.

 

[DeletedUser27848]

I am humbled to read the opinions of so many experts in one place...