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Is this game cheating on expedition map??

Klanitsa

New Member
So I went to conquer something on expedition map. While battling, 3 of my units [heavy infantry-full health] faced enemy heavy infantry. both units are the same, only mine are supposed to be boosted by+12% attack [wheat field - harvest event]. And here's the twist, while I attacked first, the enemy units won by dealing significantly more damage than mine. I also noticed that the enemy units were NOT boosted.

So here I am asking my self what happened. Any ideas? is this game cheating to force us to buy diamonds?
 

Vger

Well-Known Member
Any ideas? is this game cheating to force us to buy diamonds?
No, the game does not cheat to force you to buy diamonds. My oldest city is 18 months old. I have never bought diamonds. I have a bunch of free ones that I hardly ever find a good reason to spend.

As Agent said, 12% is hardly anything. It isn't hard to beat the games AI, especially if you fight manually. But you need more boost than that. Aim for 120% boost. Even that won't be enough as you progress, but it will start you down the right path if you get there.
 

Klanitsa

New Member
yeah, but still, even with that small boost, shouldn't I be doing more damage? Especially when all 6 units were otherwise equal and on same terrain?
 

Kranyar the Mysterious

Well-Known Member
At only 21,000 ranking points I'm guessing you are either in Iron Age or rushed into EMA. In either case 12% isn't enough boost to make any difference since you are dealing with small amounts of damage to start with. 12% more of 3 damage still averages out to 3 damage. Therefore it is quite possible for you to be beaten.
 

Vger

Well-Known Member
From the FOE Wiki: ( https://en.wiki.forgeofempires.com/index.php?title=Army_and_battles )

Damage
Each unit has a maximum of ten life points. The amount of damage points an attack deals is calculated using the current life points and the attack value of the attacker, the defense value of the attacked, modifiers for terrain, other bonuses (some units get bonuses if they fight against units of a particular type) and a random factor. Thus, a unit with a high attack rating deals more damage, and an uninjured unit inflicts more than a wounded one. On the other hand, high defense means good armor – the unit takes less damage. If a unit loses all its life points, it is destroyed.

Your +12% won't always be enough to overcome any terrain and/or random factor advantage the other side may have.
 

Klanitsa

New Member
Your +12% won't always be enough to overcome any terrain and/or random factor advantage the other side may have.
it was on same terrain. I think i mentioned this before.

And by the way, it is not a good idea to use the same units as the opponent. Every unit has some bonus against a different unit, so it is better to compose your army "against" the opponent's and not "like" it.
P.S. You are aging up unprepared.
I usually don't pit my units vs the same unit types; this was an exception. But i thought that since the enemy units had less stats than mine it might make a difference. But it went like one unit of mine took 2 hits to get killed while one of the AI's took 3 hits to get killed. THAT's what weird.
Also, How do you think i'm aging unprepared? There was a similar notion by someone else here, but i think that both assumptions are wrong.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
it was on same terrain. I think i mentioned this before.
Ofcourse it is on the same terrain. It is about using the terrain!!!

I usually don't pit my units vs the same unit types; this was an exception. But i thought that since the enemy units had less stats than mine it might make a difference. But it went like one unit of mine took 2 hits to get killed while one of the AI's took 3 hits to get killed. THAT's what weird.
Nothing weird at all. Learn how it works. Plenty of info to be found to educate you.
 

DevaCat

Well-Known Member
it was on same terrain. I think i mentioned this before.



I usually don't pit my units vs the same unit types; this was an exception. But i thought that since the enemy units had less stats than mine it might make a difference. But it went like one unit of mine took 2 hits to get killed while one of the AI's took 3 hits to get killed. THAT's what weird.
Also, How do you think i'm aging unprepared? There was a similar notion by someone else here, but i think that both assumptions are wrong.
I think you missed the bit above about a random factor being a part of why things work out as they do.

In addition, you said you attacked first. The AI unit would then get a reaction attack, damaging your unit. Then the AI unit gets its turn, hitting yours again. Each time your unit sustains damage, it deals less damage when it attacks, quite likely negating your atk bonus.

Regarding aging unprepared. You stated you have 21k rps, are in HMA, and have a 12% atk boost. If those statements are true, then you are unprepared for the age you have advanced to, no assumptions about it.
 

plinker2

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
No, the game does not cheat to force you to buy diamonds. My oldest city is 18 months old. I have never bought diamonds. I have a bunch of free ones that I hardly ever find a good reason to spend.

As Agent said, 12% is hardly anything. It isn't hard to beat the games AI, especially if you fight manually. But you need more boost than that. Aim for 120% boost. Even that won't be enough as you progress, but it will start you down the right path if you get there.
Did you infiltrate before attacking? Every little bit helps.
 

Klanitsa

New Member
Did you infiltrate before attacking? Every little bit helps.
unfortunately at that point i was after the region coin bonus. it would beat the purpose of the battle to infiltrate first, especially with the exorbitant prices it costs.


I think you missed the bit above about a random factor being a part of why things work out as they do.
Random factor can only happen so much..... Here we re talking 6 consecutive attacks on my units. It's practically impossible.

In addition, you said you attacked first. The AI unit would then get a reaction attack, damaging your unit. Then the AI unit gets its turn, hitting yours again. Each time your unit sustains damage, it deals less damage when it attacks, quite likely negating your atk bonus.
So you re saying that when i damage an enemy unit it doesn't get a penalty in it's attack power, but when one of mine is injured it takes attack penalty. That would definitely explain it.

Regarding aging unprepared. You stated you have 21k rps, are in HMA, and have a 12% atk boost. If those statements are true, then you are unprepared for the age you have advanced to, no assumptions about it.
That tells me or proves absolutely nothing. pure conjecture. Does RPS affect army stats?
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
unfortunately at that point i was after the region coin bonus. it would beat the purpose of the battle to infiltrate first, especially with the exorbitant prices it costs.



Random factor can only happen so much..... Here we re talking 6 consecutive attacks on my units. It's practically impossible.


So you re saying that when i damage an enemy unit it doesn't get a penalty in it's attack power, but when one of mine is injured it takes attack penalty. That would definitely explain it.


That tells me or proves absolutely nothing. pure conjecture. Does RPS affect army stats?

No the enemy units get the same penalties as your units do. The poster was simply pointing out that if you attack 1st and suffer reaction damage (the 1st time a heavy infantry unit gets attacked by a unit adjacent to it and lives it deals damage back). Thus if your unit was already damaged and is attacked it is more likely to be killed on the 1st attack especially if the enemy is an undamaged unit. Generally speaking if you are going to face an even battle with the same units and have to worry about reaction damaged you want to make sure you concentrate your attacks on your 1st two targets to kill them off. Hopefully while arranging to have your undamaged units.

Also you need to make sure you actually hover your mouse over the hexes your and the enemy units are in as it's quite easy to be mistaken about the terrain type perhaps they had terrain modifiers that assisted them. Although several posters above were trying to say you should of made sure you had the terrain advantage when you attacked to do more damage.

As for the comment regarding ranking points the answer is no it doesn't impact your fighting units. It does indicate that you haven't done that much attacking in general since that is fairly low ranked for someone doing a significant amount of fighting by HMA.
 

Klanitsa

New Member
No the enemy units get the same penalties as your units do. The poster was simply pointing out that if you attack 1st and suffer reaction damage (the 1st time a heavy infantry unit gets attacked by a unit adjacent to it and lives it deals damage back). Thus if your unit was already damaged and is attacked it is more likely to be killed on the 1st attack especially if the enemy is an undamaged unit. Generally speaking if you are going to face an even battle with the same units and have to worry about reaction damaged you want to make sure you concentrate your attacks on your 1st two targets to kill them off. Hopefully while arranging to have your undamaged units.

Also you need to make sure you actually hover your mouse over the hexes your and the enemy units are in as it's quite easy to be mistaken about the terrain type perhaps they had terrain modifiers that assisted them. Although several posters above were trying to say you should of made sure you had the terrain advantage when you attacked to do more damage.
As I stated before the units were undamaged. so let me analyze it so that there is no misunderstandings.
  • Enemy had 3 full health heavy infantry.
  • Enemy units were in plains terrain during the whole skirmish.
  • I had 3 full health heavy infantry.
  • All my units were in plains terrain during the skirmish.
  • I had a 12% bonus which was a +1 to attack power.
  1. I attack first.
    - It takes me 3 attacks to kill an enemy unit.
    - I'm left with 2 full health and 1 with 50% health.
    - Enemy is with 2 full health units.
  2. AI attacks.
    - It kills my injured unit (no counterattack since it's dead), and injures one more my own.
    - I'm left with 1 full health and one with 50% health.
    - Enemy is with 1 full health unit, and 1 with 60% health (notice the difference?).
  3. I attack again.
    - It takes me 2 attacks to kill the injured enemy unit (I started with the full health unit to endure the counterattack).
    - I'm left with 2 units with 50% health.
    - Enemy is with 1 full health unit
  4. AI attacks.
    - It kills one of my injured units (no counterattack since it's dead)
    - I'm left with 1unit with 50% health.
    - Enemy is with 1 full health unit
  5. I attack.
    - I damage enemy unit and it's left standing with 10% health.
    - My last unit dies from the counterattack
As you can see, it's clear the enemy units had an attack/health boost while my own boosts didn't even count.


As for the comment regarding ranking points the answer is no it doesn't impact your fighting units. It does indicate that you haven't done that much attacking in general since that is fairly low ranked for someone doing a significant amount of fighting by HMA.
I used to have an account last year where I did all the rookie mistakes. Reached colonial age, then Division2 WoNY released and lost interest. When my roommate started playing FoE I tried to login again to help him, only to realize I had lost my credentials because I had used an email account from my old internet provider which was deleted because I switched internet providers 4 months ago (Never trust internet provider email ever again). So I created a new account and started playing. So, no, as I said IT IS AN UNFOUNDED ASSUMPTION. Honestly these unfounded assumptions are getting tiresome and irritating to the point of taking offence.
 

DevaCat

Well-Known Member
Be obstinate and take offense if you wish. A previous account and previous experience have zero to do with your current city. My opinion is not unfounded nor is it an assumption. Your rps tell me that your city will fall in the lower end of a HMA neighborhood where the weaker cities reside. This is not conjecture, it is very likely, based on objective observation of neighborhood compositions over time. Given your description, of your current city, that city is unprepared/underprepared for HMA combat, among other things. If the coin cost of infiltration is too much for you, then you are unprepared, period. My opinion, of course.

You have been given answers to the combat question you raised, but refuse to consider any answer other than the one you have given yourself.

What is getting tiresome is wasting my time on this, so I'm done.
 

Klanitsa

New Member
Be obstinate and take offense if you wish.
Yes, i take offense to your constant unproven assumptions, panned out like accusations from the first post.

A previous account and previous experience have zero to do with your current city. My opinion is not unfounded nor is it an assumption. Your rps tell me that your city will fall in the lower end of a HMA neighborhood where the weaker cities reside. This is not conjecture, it is very likely, based on objective observation of neighborhood compositions over time.
As someone else said here, RPS does not affect combat unit statistics. Also the neighborhood "level" I'm in, does not affect my unit statistics either.

Given your description, of your current city, that city is unprepared/underprepared for HMA combat, among other things. My opinion, of course.
Yes, your subjective, self-righteous, assumptious opinion.

If the coin cost of infiltration is too much for you, then you are unprepared, period.
Wrong again, I was saving coins for something big (build 2 churches) and I was missing a thousand or two. At that time. But in order to support your self-righteousness, you assumed I had a weak coin production and was out of coins.
 
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Vger

Well-Known Member
- Enemy is with 1 full health unit, and 1 with 60% health (notice the difference?).
Yes, I notice the difference. Now you are starting to understand what a random factor actually means. Same units, same terrain, you took 5 hits, the other guy took 4. That's how random works.

- I damage enemy unit and it's left standing with 10% health.
- My last unit dies from the counterattack
Yup, the RNG favored the enemy, leaving it with that last 10% needed to take you out.

As you can see, it's clear the enemy units had an attack/health boost while my own boosts didn't even count.
Sorry, that is not what I see. You already said the enemy units had no boost. I have no reason not to believe that.
Where you are going wrong is in thinking that you miniscule 12% boost should be enough to make you invincible. Sorry, no. You need a lot more boost than that.

And yes, if you are in HMA with only a 12% atk/def boost, AND you need to take sectors for the coins, then you have 100% for sure aged up way too fast to do well. That's reality in this game. Sorry if you don't like it.
 

Jern2017

Well-Known Member
You got very detailed replies with explanations from knowledgeable players, but you refuse to listen and it doesn't seem like you're willing to learn anything.

Here's an answer you probably wanted to hear:

Yes. The game cheats in order to force us to buy Diamonds. Case closed.
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
You made several blatant errors in this engagement: you fought with the same units as the enemy with the same number of units as the enemy (mind you this might work with ranged units if you can land the first shots in) and those units were subject to reaction attacks when your units failed to kill the enemy. Also even if you didn't have time to train more HMA units if you can spare a bit of space for a few minutes you could of built 1 or 2 bronze age spear fighters to help you in the fight. If nothing else when facing enemy with reaction attack you could of sent the spears in so your HMA units wouldn't of taken damage to kill off the 1st unit.