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legalise doping in sports

DeletedUser

Pshawww!! Putting words in my mouth :p
That isn't what I said and you know it!! Tsk Tsk Diggo.....*runs to Hellstromm to complain*
Seriously though, DOJ keeps records for things that go boom in the night, that are caught. Until recently (last 5 years or so) colleges have been the biggest abuser of performance drugs by young people. The reason it isn't "tallied" if you will is the same reason Penn State got away with hiding a pedi for so long. Or FL A&M with hazing. They have some leniency on reporting "investigations" and such. A lot of time it doesn't come to light till after the fact. Now High Schools are taking note of the epidemic, and are figuring out ways to combat the issue...ie: random drug testing without warning (TX). But they still don't have to report it, most times the kid gets "counseling" and thrown off the team. *I can only speak for Texas and Florida, and a very little bit about 'bama and Georgia and Louisiana.
NYTimes article.
Your post here is very confusing, you tell me that no-one can provide statistics on an allegedly common problem, before providing me an article from a reputable source that offers statistics:

"A survey by the University of Michigan revealed that 2.2 percent of the nation’s 12th graders admitted in 2007 that they had used steroids at least once, down from 4 percent in 2002."

It's no secret that twelfth graders have the most to gain from lucrative scholarships, the pressure to enhance their performance in any way possible is immense. Yet only one student from fifty, about one student from two combined classes, has resorted to steroids. I assure you that is far less than many other potentially harmful substances such as alcohol and recreational drugs; not a bad overall result given the number of instances has halved across five years.

Clearly the vast majority of our aspiring athletes can handle the pressure, not attempting to emulate elite athletes who are already surrounded in controversy about performance enhancing drugs.

LOL...no, I used it to compare false aspirations. Girls who idolize these models don't realize they aren't real, and if they do, they go to great lengths to follow their "look" anyway, despite the health risks. Same with young kids...why are the athletes so good? Oh....doping...cool...gotcha. Doesn't matter that it isn't real talent, but rather a manufactured one, kids will still emulate them, including doping if need be, rather than hard work OR reality of suckiness.
So eating disorders do not compare in magnitude to performance enhancing drugs? Then you're making a mountain out of an molehill, a fallacy.Upon this flawed logic, you're already making another unsupported assumption, that children will attempt to emulate elite athletes under all circumstances. Children attempt to emulate their heroes, not necessarily elite athletes, and highly unlikely they would be were the drug consuming process made transparent.

Social costs, health costs, moral costs, ethical costs etc. Steroids are STILL steroids with the same basic side effects. on a side note doping is actually not that expensive......
US Dept of Education on Steroids
Social costs? Health costs? Moral costs? Ethical costs? What is immoral and unethical is the current cheating of the rules, whereby elite athletes take performance enhancing drugs behind closed doors, then society trumpets them as the best nature has to offer. Let health professionals in to monitor the practise and minimise existing risk. Send a clear message to aspiring, young athletes that they are not expected to meet professional standards naturally, you no longer need to be pressured to match performances using drugs, and if you do we'll know something is wrong.

I still disagree, but mostly because of the costs stated above. You open that door, who pays? Our kids, who as a general rule in the US have no common sense or sense of boundaries as it is....So let us grown ups, hand them their own pistol.....yep, Americans are GENIUSES!!!!
Nice emotional appeal there, but that is also a fallacy since your point is grounded in empathy rather than logic. Nevertheless, thanks for identifying a key issue here. The real problem here is that some American youth lack an informed perspective, or as you put it "have no common sense or sense of boundaries". Well, let's set a nice easy one that even Sarah Palin could comprehend. Elite athletes are highly paid professionals, assisted by the finest medical staff, using performance enhancing drugs in combination with natural ability to produce unnatural displays of strength. Youth are unpaid amateurs, with no access to medical guidance regarding drugs, who are not expected to reproduce the unrealistic performance of the elite. The best way we could avoid handing youth our own pistol is to stop expecting the impossible from them, then offer rewards for it.
 

DeletedUser34

hahahahahahahahahah you took me seriously!!!!! I didn't expect a book :p
I shall double post a response later, I am tired.....


skype is evil!!!!
 

DeletedUser

hahahahahahahahahah you took me seriously!!!!! I didn't expect a book :p
I shall double post a response later, I am tired.....
Is this better?

1/10 :p
trollscale.jpg
 

DeletedUser

Hes baaaaack!!! Stop worshiping them and problem solved. People give them the status of gods. Well maybe having blood as thick as syrup is worth being a god. Just becuz you like to do something, does not mean you have to watch others do it. I like to sit outside and drink a cold one. Does not mean I want to watch others do it for hours and cheer them on. How bout you just tell em "you did good" and give them bus fare home? Who is gonna do syrup blood for that?
 

DeletedUser3

As long as athletes can make as much or more than rock stars, politicians, and ceos, there will be an illegal element associated.
 

DeletedUser34

Your post here is very confusing, you tell me that no-one can provide statistics on an allegedly common problem, before providing me an article from a reputable source that offers statistics:
I said the DOJ doesn't :p

"A survey by the University of Michigan revealed that 2.2 percent of the nation’s 12th graders admitted in 2007 that they had used steroids at least once, down from 4 percent in 2002."

It's no secret that twelfth graders have the most to gain from lucrative scholarships, the pressure to enhance their performance in any way possible is immense. Yet only one student from fifty, about one student from two combined classes, has resorted to steroids. I assure you that is far less than many other potentially harmful substances such as alcohol and recreational drugs; not a bad overall result given the number of instances has halved across five years.

Clearly the vast majority of our aspiring athletes can handle the pressure, not attempting to emulate elite athletes who are already surrounded in controversy about performance enhancing drugs.


So eating disorders do not compare in magnitude to performance enhancing drugs? Then you're making a mountain out of an molehill, a fallacy.Upon this flawed logic, you're already making another unsupported assumption, that children will attempt to emulate elite athletes under all circumstances. Children attempt to emulate their heroes, not necessarily elite athletes, and highly unlikely they would be were the drug consuming process made transparent.


Social costs? Health costs? Moral costs? Ethical costs? What is immoral and unethical is the current cheating of the rules, whereby elite athletes take performance enhancing drugs behind closed doors, then society trumpets them as the best nature has to offer. Let health professionals in to monitor the practise and minimise existing risk. Send a clear message to aspiring, young athletes that they are not expected to meet professional standards naturally, you no longer need to be pressured to match performances using drugs, and if you do we'll know something is wrong.


Nice emotional appeal there, but that is also a fallacy since your point is grounded in empathy rather than logic. Nevertheless, thanks for identifying a key issue here. The real problem here is that some American youth lack an informed perspective, or as you put it "have no common sense or sense of boundaries". Well, let's set a nice easy one that even Sarah Palin could comprehend. Elite athletes are highly paid professionals, assisted by the finest medical staff, using performance enhancing drugs in combination with natural ability to produce unnatural displays of strength. Youth are unpaid amateurs, with no access to medical guidance regarding drugs, who are not expected to reproduce the unrealistic performance of the elite. The best way we could avoid handing youth our own pistol is to stop expecting the impossible from them, then offer rewards for it.

I have so many places to respond to this, but I must be honest, once these things get so detailed in their replies, they become tedious. I don't know if I will ever finish arguing with you on this, but I know for right now....my give a damn busted...or rather moved on to another topic that has tweeked my interest.....

We have 10 pages, maybe we will get back to it :p
 

DeletedUser1101

I think the problem lies in human nature. whether you legalize doping or not is not the problem. You would still have someone who would do more then the allow limit. If you have no limit, then it becomes the issue of which brand. When this happens corporate wars starts. Then again some people would do anything for 10 minutes of fame. IE 100 meter dash shoot up run then a year later dies from the dope. That's the reason why doping is illegal at least in my opinion
 

DeletedUser

I think the problem lies in human nature. whether you legalize doping or not is not the problem. You would still have someone who would do more then the allow limit. If you have no limit, then it becomes the issue of which brand. When this happens corporate wars starts. Then again some people would do anything for 10 minutes of fame. IE 100 meter dash shoot up run then a year later dies from the dope. That's the reason why doping is illegal at least in my opinion
Hi Takumi, nice to hear from you :) I agree it is human nature to push the limits as far as they can go, but ultimately as you've explained you cannot go past death. Elite athletes have and will continue to take performance enhancing drugs where the risk is suspension and side effects, however how willing would these same athletes be when the consequence becomes straight up death? Ultimately I believe, as subjective as it may be, that the human instinct to survive trumps our competitive nature.
 

DeletedUser

Ya i have to agree that some of these guys are idolized by young kids, and if they promoted drug use what would the kids do?
 

DeletedUser

Ya i have to agree that some of these guys are idolized by young kids, and if they promoted drug use what would the kids do?
Hi Brutal :) Just to clarify, you believe that kids idolizing athletes secretly (and illegally) taking performance enhancing drugs is a better scenario than kids idolizing athletes quietly (but legally) taking performance enhancing drugs?
 

DeletedUser

First off, there is no way that any form of PEDs should be allowed in any sport under any circumstances. I can't really add any input on the effects of different drugs on cycling or anything like that, but I can put a little bit of a view on baseball.
The steroid era of baseball is over, but its use is still largely impacting the world outside of the MLB (not totally sure if it ever impacted the upper leagues in japan, different style of play, no point in steroids etc.) I've played high school ball in two countries in both a top team with championship aspirations, and a team with no hope at ever being good, and both have steroid use. It's not just about making it to the next level, some people use because they know that this is their last chance to play. For most, the road ends at the end of high school. These people want the memory of being that hero and at least having some good times and the perks that come with being good at their sport. If these drugs were legalized at even just the professional level, usage would shoot up throughout the lower levels of any sport. (hehe, steroid pun) That being said, I don't actually think steroids are the only thing making some of these known users great. Steroids can get you the muscle, but there's no drug to drastically improve your hand eye co-ordination and reaction time. So maybe we are overreacting to drugs like PED's, but they still taint sports in a way that really is unnecessary and unwanted in my book.

So, TL;DR: Don't allow any PED's, large impact on lower teir groups, but they aren't insanely impacting in certain sports.
 
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