Let's Talk About Microtransactions & Game State

[Solicitude]

Every single aspect of the game is monetized. While a company needs to make money, the way that it is being done here is egregious. The value you get for the money just is not there at all in terms of scaling.It hurts a lot of the community. A pay-to-win game leaves a bad taste in the gaming community. It intices a massive amount of burn-out and fustration. It destroys the balance of the game itself. What made the game what it was in the early years is that you had to work for everything. But, as the game goes on and we are getting newer events and more powerful buildings and so forth, many things are left in the dust. Entirely abandoned.Going forward, what can we do differently? Well.. the majority of games that have some kind of monetization are membership style games. Why not make premium versions of a world where you can get some sort of benefit monthly for a low price? Say like 15 bucks a month or something. Add premium content to those worlds and no, I do not mean go absolutely ballistic and make it to the point where you absolutely have to have it in order for the game to be enjoyable.

What I am talking about is having access to certain things that create a value for your money. Like newer maps, continents, quests, lore. Little things like that. Perhaps content already in the game, but just revised a little and some quality of life things from the feedback of players rather than doing what you think and believe we would want. That sort of thing.A community polling system. If you ever heard about Jagex and Old School Runescape, they have a poll system. Here you can essentially communicate with the community. A company is nothing if it does not have any kind of conversation with the player base. You can propose changes and add this in game where we can look at what the devs are up to what content we believe should be added and what should be not.Make it have to have a 70% vote for the majority.

​

I am aware of ForgePlus. But, if you were to make a premium members version world I believe that it would be a lot better. Have access to the premium content and only being able to have that on those worlds.This allows for those that play the game free to not have to compete with the "whales." Also why not add a bond system?Be able to get membership to these buildings for free with a system in game in the free version of the game. This allows for players either new or returning to see what the game has to offer.As for new game modes in the future and so forth with the membership worlds, you should be able to choose the kind of content you want to do and not have to have it forced on you. What I mean here is you got different account types. You got the pacifist kind where they have decided to disable guild vs guild (this would require you to start up a new city as moving things over would give you a crazy advantage). Just things like this. A lot of people have problems with the GVG concept in the game and some love it. It divides the community. It doesn't have to be this way.

 

[Solicitude]

The inclusion of microtransactions by its very nature means that there are aspects of the game that take time to achieve/get, and microtransactions are used as a time-saving device. This makes the player feel that the developer is purposely hindering the game to compel the player to pay for these microtransactions. In free to play games, players understand that this is a necessary evil since the developers cannot work for free; however, for full priced games, the player feels cheated because they paid for a full fledged game with the assumption that there should be no hindrances. The problem with Forge of Empires is that every single aspect of the game is a MTX and even if you are to purchase the packages, there is still some kind of hinderance because the developer is purposely hindering the game to compel the player to pay for these microtransactions.

Now let's take two scenarios:

Developer creates game economy and designs the game with the concept of microtransactions in mind, making tasks/item retrieval take uncomfortably long to compel the player to pay for microtransactions.

Developer creates game economy and designs the game for a perfectly good single player experience without microtransactions, but includes microtransactions as a way to allow players to play the game at a shorter playtime if preferred. In either scenario, the player will automatically assume that the developer is in the first camp because they do not know what the developer's intention was. Ultimately this judgement is fair because the developer will, by human nature, be biased in their game design if they include microtransactions. This will lead to a series of unbalancing and a total loss of revenue. The exact thing they are facing. I am not saying that they need to get rid of MTX. They just need to do it in a way that is not borderline degenerative gambling addiction with no regards to the overall health of the game and player base alongside a paying customer.

 

[Solicitude]

Pay to win and most microtransactions are psychological attacks on your wallet. They wear down the person's desire for optimization and convenience, and are a tax upon the player's willpower. Getting a reward in game that is equivalent to X time or effort thus feels good, literally, by causing your brain to release dopamine, giving you a chemical satisfying reward for paying for something virtual. In particularly bad P2W games, there is often virtually no limit to how much you can spend, and at some point you have to exert willpower to stop spending. Here's where things get ugly.

Research is showing that exerting willpower has a chemical cost in the human brain. Fighting the often constant temptations of things to buy can wear the player down significantly. These chemicals are not per-temptation specific, and their depletion can have other drawbacks. This can cause depressed moods, out of control spending, and will [i think absolutely] reduce the willpower that the player has left to deal with every other facet of your their life.P2W games, even many F2P games, literally screw with your brain. When a game pesters you to spend money on it, it is physically attacking your brain.This along with what I mentioned above is the dirty side of business and why I believe there needs to be a better system in place otherwise in my honest opinion, it will keep declining and it will not be a game which new players are going to find worth their time or their investment in. Due to this and the eventual psychological devastation they will face. It doesn't just affect that person. It literally effects everyone and everything around them.

 

[Flynn013]

TLDR, Nobody is forcing you to pay for anything in the game. You can play without spending any money at all.

 

[honey55]

TLDR, Nobody is forcing you to pay for anything in the game. You can play without spending any money at all.

i don't think that's his point at all. The game does pester one to spend all the time. It gets a little wearisome. For those buying perhaps it is as he describes.

That said, the game is less rewarding for me now than when i started cause no matter how smartly i play events, i won't end in the top league unless i spend LOTS, of diamonds.

My guild came in 2nd in gbg this last season and not because the other guild is better. It's because we chose to not spend LOTS of diamonds, and really, for what? Buildings that are not as good as QI ? Bragging rights that ends when another guild beats you. Who cares now that the top guild held is spot for so long. They fell and now lost members just like any other guild that falls from its pedestal

 

[Solicitude]

TLDR, Nobody is forcing you to pay for anything in the game. You can play without spending any money at all.

I knew I would get this kind of response. Someone that does not actually bother to read before offering any kind of constructive critique or valuable input. That was not my point at all and you entirely missed the point of the posts.

That being said, I have posted the same on the Discord and have gotten valuable feedback and discussions that do admit and discuss this kind of issue that is going on in the game.

I am aware of that. Yes, it is indeed a free to play game.

 

[Solicitude]

i don't think that's his point at all. The game does pester one to spend all the time. It gets a little wearisome. For those buying perhaps it is as he describes.

That said, the game is less rewarding for me now than when i started cause no matter how smartly i play events, i won't end in the top league unless i spend LOTS, of diamonds.

My guild came in 2nd in gbg this last season and not because the other guild is better. It's because we chose to not spend LOTS of diamonds, and really, for what? Buildings that are not as good as QI ? Bragging rights that ends when another guild beats you. Who cares now that the top guild held is spot for so long. They fell and now lost members just like any other guild that falls from its pedestal

Yes, the game unfortunately has a issue with products to value ratio. It also unfortunately has an issue where instead of updating older content that players have worked weeks and months to get that is now obsolete, you got to pay now to make it even remotely worth placing down in the city.

I understand overtime things are going to scale more gradually, but there needs to be a better way of doing this and creating value in the game in my opinion alongside with others I spoke with in this regard.


That's unfortunate on the GBG. I never really liked that kind of thing in the game and it's kind of unfortunate that it is forced upon players and is a forced kind of monetization. I just find that to be really toxic for the game. It seems from what I gathered to be a problem or the "turning point" for a lot of things.

I get the frustration due to not spending a fortune on diamonds and I use the word fortune with purpose. Things in this game are egregious. The monetization is overly zealous and aggressive to the point that it actually is harming the game more than it helps to build it. You've stated that yourself.

Yeah, and the sad thing is, guilds are an absolutely central piece to the game. Community, brotherhood, fraternity, whatever you want to call it is what is the backbone and the foundation of the game entirely. When it falls and members are lost from the pedestal the burn out happens, the feeling that your work and time is not cared for it cripples it. It causes the eventual downfall of the game and at times it completely takes it off the market.

I am not saying it is a total loss, but if something is not done from the loss of players to the feedback being what appears to be blatantly ignored then we are facing a grim future. We already have lost so many players. There's so many deleted accounts or those that have not logged in 7+ days that it makes you truly wonder how many players are active.

Thank you for your feedback and discussion, I appreciate your time and concern to the matter and I value your input.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

It seems from what I gathered to be a problem or the "turning point" for a lot of things.

If you really want to know the "turning point" for a lot of things in the game, it's not GBG. It's the Arc. I can tell you for a fact that when the Arc came out and players realized the implications of the contribution rewards boost, the game pretty much changed overnight. You can trace the beginning of power creep to the introduction of the Arc into the game. And the fact that it coincided with the virtual abandonment of GvG and the death of the lead developer really made that the left turn that this game did not need.

For example, before the Arc was introduced, each guild needed a mix of playing types. Sure, they needed fighters, but they also needed producers because only the lowly OBS passively contributed a small amount of guild goods to the Treasury. The Arc changed that. Now everyone had to be a fighter and have the Arc and the OBS to be in a GvG guild. Producing alone was no longer enough to stay in a top guild. Guilds established minimum participation requirements.

Then, GvG withered on the branch, mostly due to the lead developer's death. No longer was there a need for concerted guild efforts. GE/GBG/QI do not need everyone to be on at the same time. There doesn't need to be the coordination of effort that GvG required.

Now, to be honest, GBG didn't help matters, but the game had already taken that turn long before GBG was a thing.

 

[Solicitude]

If you really want to know the "turning point" for a lot of things in the game, it's not GBG. It's the Arc. I can tell you for a fact that when the Arc came out and players realized the implications of the contribution rewards boost, the game pretty much changed overnight. You can trace the beginning of power creep to the introduction of the Arc into the game. And the fact that it coincided with the virtual abandonment of GvG and the death of the lead developer really made that the left turn that this game did not need.

For example, before the Arc was introduced, each guild needed a mix of playing types. Sure, they needed fighters, but they also needed producers because only the lowly OBS passively contributed a small amount of guild goods to the Treasury. The Arc changed that. Now everyone had to be a fighter and have the Arc and the OBS to be in a GvG guild. Producing alone was no longer enough to stay in a top guild. Guilds established minimum participation requirements.

Then, GvG withered on the branch, mostly due to the lead developer's death. No longer was there a need for concerted guild efforts. GE/GBG/QI do not need everyone to be on at the same time. There doesn't need to be the coordination of effort that GvG required.

Now, to be honest, GBG didn't help matters, but the game had already taken that turn long before GBG was a thing.

Yes, I remember when I discovered the Arc in the game and I do remember what it was like before then as well. I do agree that is has forever changed the game. You are right that now everyone for the most part is required to be a fighter and have and Arc and/or an OBS. This is actually a requirement I been seeing for guilds that do not even require you to be a participant in GvG.

I was unaware the lead developer has passed away. That is saddening to hear. Yes, I do agree with you that is had taken a turn long before the GBG was introduced. It's a bit crazy to think the Arc was introduced in 2015ish area I believe?

*Edit* Looked who you are referring to and dang, I do remember that now. I remember that 2015 Memorial Event.

 

[cptvkirk]

like stated above, the creator was a gamer that had a mind for the mechanics and balance of the game. He made a game he enjoyed and was glad to be able to make some money. that changed when it was bought and answered to investors. I remember an article years ago where the new team couldn't even figure out the original code to continue the OG's intent after his passing so they had to come up with new stuff. This became their most successful cash cow ever and every effort was made to keep players on the hook and money flowing, knowing it wouldn't last forever. what has happened to the game isn't by accident with unforeseen consequences. the game will continue grinding out diamond spending event opportunity as long as it is profitable but given its age and other ventures by the dev team, i wouldn't expect to see any great rebalancing or revival, just a slow death till support cost is no longer dwarfed by income.
As far as competition, the game was always designed to keep daily players checking in often. productions spoiled or were plundered, treasure hunter required increased time intervals. quest clocks were too long to stare at but too short to ignore for very long. Well designed to be a very addictive part of a player's daily routine. The rules and restrictions were very permissive for a reason. attacking another player always has done nothing to that player. plundering has always been preventable. Sniping has always been preventable. Both being permitted in the game has what drove players deeper into understanding the mechanics of the game, sharing that info with their team and developing their own standards of play that have nothing to do with the game rules.....it's called engagement and was wildly succesful. sure, it was a grind. every tavern had to be visited, every city had to have a building selected to motivate or polish, every forge point was spent 1 at a time. I think the game of today is less of a grind than it used to be. GvG was a blast..till it wasn't and players/guilds rose and fell as interest waned. what kept the game alive this long was the constant influx of new players. removal of the treasure hunter, addition of aid all, visit all and key in fp amounts have dramatically reduced the mindless grind but also removed some of the need for coordinated interaction. GbG has far more participation than GvG ever had but certainly room for improvement to balance the ability of a farmer to participate at close to the scale of the fighter. But...it's rare that a farmer was ever a big spender..so guess where the effort went...

totally neglected QI and settlements....settlements are a near waste of time post power creep, most of them anyway. QI was a reasonable attempt to bring a player balance back with cities having little impact on QI capability and most closely resembles the original game. i dislike it because it deepens the power creep and see it as the multi-tiered diamond grab it was actually made to be.

 

[Dominator - X]

Pay to win and most microtransactions are psychological attacks on your wallet. They wear down the person's desire for optimization and convenience, and are a tax upon the player's willpower. Getting a reward in game that is equivalent to X time or effort thus feels good, literally, by causing your brain to release dopamine, giving you a chemical satisfying reward for paying for something virtual. In particularly bad P2W games, there is often virtually no limit to how much you can spend, and at some point you have to exert willpower to stop spending. Here's where things get ugly.

Research is showing that exerting willpower has a chemical cost in the human brain. Fighting the often constant temptations of things to buy can wear the player down significantly. These chemicals are not per-temptation specific, and their depletion can have other drawbacks. This can cause depressed moods, out of control spending, and will [i think absolutely] reduce the willpower that the player has left to deal with every other facet of your their life.P2W games, even many F2P games, literally screw with your brain. When a game pesters you to spend money on it, it is physically attacking your brain.This along with what I mentioned above is the dirty side of business and why I believe there needs to be a better system in place otherwise in my honest opinion, it will keep declining and it will not be a game which new players are going to find worth their time or their investment in. Due to this and the eventual psychological devastation they will face. It doesn't just affect that person. It literally effects everyone and everything around them.

Husband 1: "But sweetheart, it wasn't my fault! I am not to blame for her being so beautiful, so enticing and so flirtatious. She just broke my willpower, and I could not resist straying."

Husband 2: "I mean, she's cute and all, but my love for you prevents me from compromising. Not just compromising but even allowing myself to be in a position to even think about "going there". So, I walked away and gave it no consideration."

I really don't get the problem here; FOE is a for profit game owned by a publicly traded investment group. Thus, they want to offer cycles of opportunities for us to spend money on their product. As any responsible duty-bound fiduciary would do.

Many P2P (AKA P2W) players want those opportunities/deals. Others, F2P players, do not. Since this game was advertised as a free game, the choice to spend or not is ours. Each individual has free will to choose which option(s) they feel is best for them and their situation. If you choose to be a F2P player and are annoyed or tempted to buy the helpers, just click on the box that closes the pop up and quit acting the victim here. Same goes with a P2P player who only pays for a specific package yet is also annoyed or tempted to buy additional helpers. Just click and be done with it. It does go away. If you then focus on other things, the "temptation" should fade too.

One person's treasure is another person's garbage. When separating the one from the other, keep the former and discard the latter but let the rest of us also choose which to keep and which to discard. Most of us don't need or even want a Nanny, Mommy or Daddy protecting us from the bad man. We can do that ourselves by exercising our free will and dealing with the consequences and fallout from such decisions.

 

[Solicitude]

I understand that you do not see the problem here. Others do, however. I know many players want the opportunities and deals. The way that they go about the MTX and the over aggression of it is what I am getting at. It's a bit more than just what you say. It creates addition. Once you go in once, you keep going in unfortunately for many people. Otherwise a gambling addiction. It turns burnout into a real thing if they do manage to quit. Some do, some do not.

In reality it creates a lot more issues and divides a community. Again, yes you have that choice. I understand that. But, even those that pay can admit that it is something that needs a lot of work and optimization. There are healthy forms of MTX and others not so much. I won't get into it as that is a conversation of its own. It goes away, but it really does not go away, because you're going to keep getting it eventually.

It affects the overall longevity of the game. It affects every single aspect of the game is what I am getting at. We are seeing declines in players continuously and drop offs of earnings. Yes, they surpassed the 1.1 billion mark of all time revenue earned. That's a massive achievement. But, the game is constantly in a battle with itself due to this exact thing.

If the deals are bad for those paying, they are not going to be paying anymore. If everything is monetized in such an aggressive way (and it is), people are going to see the blatant hinderance of the game and design that your money is not going scale at all and for the most part is going to be viewed as a pump and dump sort of scheme where it is is a scam. Some people cannot realize that until later on and those players and I seen it for myself, no longer pay to play the game. Some just left entirely. The active player base dwindles every single day. It is stable right now, but the question is with it doing this and not seeing any kind of thing done to fix this long term problem, then what does the future hold? Those that even play it for free are going to see the problem that even their time and investment is not going to be worth either.

I appreciate your response and input alongside your feedback. Thank you for your time.

 

[Solicitude]

like stated above, the creator was a gamer that had a mind for the mechanics and balance of the game. He made a game he enjoyed and was glad to be able to make some money. that changed when it was bought and answered to investors. I remember an article years ago where the new team couldn't even figure out the original code to continue the OG's intent after his passing so they had to come up with new stuff. This became their most successful cash cow ever and every effort was made to keep players on the hook and money flowing, knowing it wouldn't last forever. what has happened to the game isn't by accident with unforeseen consequences. the game will continue grinding out diamond spending event opportunity as long as it is profitable but given its age and other ventures by the dev team, i wouldn't expect to see any great rebalancing or revival, just a slow death till support cost is no longer dwarfed by income.
As far as competition, the game was always designed to keep daily players checking in often. productions spoiled or were plundered, treasure hunter required increased time intervals. quest clocks were too long to stare at but too short to ignore for very long. Well designed to be a very addictive part of a player's daily routine. The rules and restrictions were very permissive for a reason. attacking another player always has done nothing to that player. plundering has always been preventable. Sniping has always been preventable. Both being permitted in the game has what drove players deeper into understanding the mechanics of the game, sharing that info with their team and developing their own standards of play that have nothing to do with the game rules.....it's called engagement and was wildly succesful. sure, it was a grind. every tavern had to be visited, every city had to have a building selected to motivate or polish, every forge point was spent 1 at a time. I think the game of today is less of a grind than it used to be. GvG was a blast..till it wasn't and players/guilds rose and fell as interest waned. what kept the game alive this long was the constant influx of new players. removal of the treasure hunter, addition of aid all, visit all and key in fp amounts have dramatically reduced the mindless grind but also removed some of the need for coordinated interaction. GbG has far more participation than GvG ever had but certainly room for improvement to balance the ability of a farmer to participate at close to the scale of the fighter. But...it's rare that a farmer was ever a big spender..so guess where the effort went...

totally neglected QI and settlements....settlements are a near waste of time post power creep, most of them anyway. QI was a reasonable attempt to bring a player balance back with cities having little impact on QI capability and most closely resembles the original game. i dislike it because it deepens the power creep and see it as the multi-tiered diamond grab it was actually made to be.

Yeah, that's how most games end up. Someone with a passion and eventually maybe an investor company buys out the majority. Turns it into a cash cow for the pump and dump scheme. By design and not by an accident. I do agree that it will continue as long as it is profitable.

I hope that there is some kind of rebalancing or a revival, but it does not appear to be in the cards. Unfortunately it seems to be going into the same direction with a slow death being what the future holds.

Yes, the game was and always is designed to keep the daily players checking in. Rules, restrictions and so forth I agree they were permissive for reasons. The mechanics driving players into understanding core functioning of the game and all.

Yes, what kept the game alive was the constant influx of new players, but now I am not really seeing much of that. Just some returning here or there to see if anything has changed at all. Most seem to be leaving due to burn out or whatever that reasoning is and the current system being used for profit to the answering of the community has been less than exceptional in my own opinion and based on the feedback of others where it's gone ignored for months to even years at a time.

Yeah, that is not the only thing neglected in the game being the QI and settlements unfortunately. Hopefully in time something is done. We will see. But, from what you said yourself to what I seen, it doesn't look like it is in the cards at the moment.

Thank you for your feedback and discussion. I appreciate it.

 

[Flynn013]

I knew I would get this kind of response. Someone that does not actually bother to read before offering any kind of constructive critique or valuable input. That was not my point at all and you entirely missed the point of the posts.

That being said, I have posted the same on the Discord and have gotten valuable feedback and discussions that do admit and discuss this kind of issue that is going on in the game.

I am aware of that. Yes, it is indeed a free to play game.

I guess I should have said that I skimmed through your long winded ramblings that boil down to you not liking the way the the game is presented.
It's not your game, the owners can do anything they want with it. You sound like someone who has no clue how these games work or how businesses make money.
Without people paying the game would dissappear and one way to get people to pay is to offer ways to "get ahead".
And the same doom and gloom talk about players leaving. Players come and go all the time. Every time someone says lots of people are quitting I look at my guild and friends list everyone is still there.
If you can't adjust to a game that makes changes over the course of years to stay profitable perhaps another game would be a better fit for you.

 

[honey55]

I guess I should have said that I skimmed through your long winded ramblings that boil down to you not liking the way the the game is presented.
It's not your game, the owners can do anything they want with it. You sound like someone who has no clue how these games work or how businesses make money.
Without people paying the game would dissappear and one way to get people to pay is to offer ways to "get ahead".
And the same doom and gloom talk about players leaving. Players come and go all the time. Every time someone says lots of people are quitting I look at my guild and friends list everyone is still there.
If you can't adjust to a game that makes changes over the course of years to stay profitable perhaps another game would be a better fit for you.

Or one can come here and give their feedback.

I went thru my Friends list awhile back and was surprised how many players had left the game. I know a number that were long time players like me, are gone. There's still some left but even some of those have cut back especially on gbg, including me. We dont all put as much into events either. They're just not rewarding enough.

Once i quit this online game, or it shuts down, I'll NEVER start another one. They are the biggest addicting distraction from real life (why I'm still playing. Key word: addicting) I'll not get addicted again especially since they can keep changing the game. When i 1st started playing the hoods were mixed, no easy aid, no taverns etc ... but using strategy especially in events, was much more rewarding. Everything took time. Now players do what took me years, in a fraction of the time.

I'm a good player. I can do unlimited attrition on trial 1, fight QI to the end, finish all events as a f2p player. But its not as fun. I may actually not last as i really don't even really enjoy QI anymore. I know some are still challenged to get more actions. But i get more fights than i need ( my guild is 1st so they don't need me to do more), the next expansion is to far away to care about, i have plenty of bazaars and nothing i want from the store. .

Addiction and time invested has won so far, plus hope something better is coming.

 

[Solicitude]

I guess I should have said that I skimmed through your long winded ramblings that boil down to you not liking the way the the game is presented.
It's not your game, the owners can do anything they want with it. You sound like someone who has no clue how these games work or how businesses make money.
Without people paying the game would dissappear and one way to get people to pay is to offer ways to "get ahead".
And the same doom and gloom talk about players leaving. Players come and go all the time. Every time someone says lots of people are quitting I look at my guild and friends list everyone is still there.
If you can't adjust to a game that makes changes over the course of years to stay profitable perhaps another game would be a better fit for you.

You making that assumption is not actually how I view the game at all. I never said I dislike the game itself. More so, that the direction in which it is heading is not where players, like myself, want it to go. The owners can't do whatever they want to it because at the end of the day the community and players are the majority vote if they want to remain in business. We are the voice. We are what keeps them being able to do their jobs. That is how the world works. You provide a service for commerce. People are your most valuable commodity. In life and in business. Sure, they can theoretically do that, but they are not going to be here much longer if they do whatever they want without a care in the world.

I know how business works and how money works my friend. I also know how games die to these exact same things in which I been talking about, that you fail to read because you are too lazy and then try to make bold statements and accusations to me without any grounds.

Without people paying, the game would disappear. I never once said to remove them. Rather, there are good forms of MTX and bad forms of MTX. Every gamer can agree. There's many examples, but I'll give you one. Diablo Immortals. It has faced massive and significant black lash from the community as well as content creators and analysts alike. Considerable reputation damage to the company.

Doom and gloom talk? Players come and go all time. No they do not my friend. Take a look at foestats.com it will give you the statistics. Keep in mind that the game has in the tens of millions to hundreds of millions of registered accounts. Where did these people go then? You can even look at the number of active players to the number of inactive. We have not seen those numbers peak to active players in over a decade.

Every single game in the world and every business in the world makes changes over the course of the year to stay profitable. That's how society works, yes. There is not a game that would necessarily be a better fit under that statement and that was not the point of my post. Again, you are lazy and refuse to read a statement then try and make bold statements and accusations to me without doing the first step or having any kind of research or knowledge done to remotely back what you trying to make a comment on.

Regardless, thank your your input and statements made. I know that your time is valuable and I appreciate you taking time out of your day to discuss matters with me.

 

[Solicitude]

Or one can come here and give their feedback.

I went thru my Friends list awhile back and was surprised how many players had left the game. I know a number that were long time players like me, are gone. There's still some left but even some of those have cut back especially on gbg, including me. We dont all put as much into events either. They're just not rewarding enough.

Once i quit this online game, or it shuts down, I'll NEVER start another one. They are the biggest addicting distraction from real life (why I'm still playing. Key word: addicting) I'll not get addicted again especially since they can keep changing the game. When i 1st started playing the hoods were mixed, no easy aid, no taverns etc ... but using strategy especially in events, was much more rewarding. Everything took time. Now players do what took me years, in a fraction of the time.

I'm a good player. I can do unlimited attrition on trial 1, fight QI to the end, finish all events as a f2p player. But its not as fun. I may actually not last as i really don't even really enjoy QI anymore. I know some are still challenged to get more actions. But i get more fights than i need ( my guild is 1st so they don't need me to do more), the next expansion is to far away to care about, i have plenty of bazaars and nothing i want from the store. .

Addiction and time invested has won so far, plus hope something better is coming.

Yes, actually you can look at a thing called foe stats and you will see the absolute abysmal numbers of inactive players in which many, and I am talking hundreds of thousands do not return. It's all there. You can see it for yourself and you will see what I am talking about and why this is such a massive deal and ongoing issue.


Not many would ever start a new one or return because if you take a break you set yourself so far back. While it is easier to get the power creep now vs. what it used to be it is still going to be a killer. It's not going to appeal to everyone and that's fine. Players feel cheated because the game progressively is becoming easier and the over aggressive monetization kills that. This is why you are seeing the decline. Yes, they have to make money, but it is not even close to being optimized in a way where balance and integrity are the core foundation.

That is what I am trying to promote here. Is getting attention for a change. Getting people involved. Letting them say what they want to say on something that is controversial and they shy away from. I know they all got opinions on it and that's fine. We are entitled to such.

But, right now it is a pump and dump scheme for the investors firm and overtime that is going to cause a lot of problems if they do not listen to communities. People do and will see the investors and parent companies and refuse to aid them in anyway, shape or form. A lot of people do not trust that the developers are going to make a product worth their time even if it is free. Now, that to me, is absolutely crazy that you lost that faith in the community, let alone for a premium paid product. A lot feel like it is just a straight up scam. A lot have actually withdrew from supporting the company. I believe in 2021, if I recall correctly when I was searching up their portfolio, they declined in revenue vs the previous years.

Thank you for your words, your input and your concerns along with your discussion. I appreciate your time.

 

[SirPat63265]

If you really want to know the "turning point" for a lot of things in the game, it's not GBG. It's the Arc. I can tell you for a fact that when the Arc came out and players realized the implications of the contribution rewards boost, the game pretty much changed overnight. You can trace the beginning of power creep to the introduction of the Arc into the game. And the fact that it coincided with the virtual abandonment of GvG and the death of the lead developer really made that the left turn that this game did not need.

For example, before the Arc was introduced, each guild needed a mix of playing types. Sure, they needed fighters, but they also needed producers because only the lowly OBS passively contributed a small amount of guild goods to the Treasury. The Arc changed that. Now everyone had to be a fighter and have the Arc and the OBS to be in a GvG guild. Producing alone was no longer enough to stay in a top guild. Guilds established minimum participation requirements.

Then, GvG withered on the branch, mostly due to the lead developer's death. No longer was there a need for concerted guild efforts. GE/GBG/QI do not need everyone to be on at the same time. There doesn't need to be the coordination of effort that GvG required.

Now, to be honest, GBG didn't help matters, but the game had already taken that turn long before GBG was a thing.

Here Here bro...I had been playing a year when the Arc came out and not only did it change the game, it changed people. Players started stabbing one another in the back for blueprints. We had a good guild until the Arc came along. Next thing you know friends turned on each other and was in 6 months it destroyed a guild that had been almost family like for 8 months. Not only did it change that but consider this... Only the older players will know what I'm about to say and understand it... Remember when somebody having a great building at level 15 was an amazing thing and almost god-like. Or when you went out sniping and if you knew you were going to make 500 forge points overnight you felt like you are on top of the world. The Arc changed the game completely. As for GVG, I do recall trying to get everybody to show up at 8:00 p.m. for recalc. Now it has definitely become a pay to play game.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

I guess I should have said that I skimmed through your long winded ramblings that boil down to you not liking the way the the game is presented.
It's not your game, the owners can do anything they want with it. You sound like someone who has no clue how these games work or how businesses make money.
Without people paying the game would dissappear and one way to get people to pay is to offer ways to "get ahead".
And the same doom and gloom talk about players leaving. Players come and go all the time. Every time someone says lots of people are quitting I look at my guild and friends list everyone is still there.
If you can't adjust to a game that makes changes over the course of years to stay profitable perhaps another game would be a better fit for you.

I wondered when another Inno apologist would show up, it's been a while since anyone took that role.
Oh, and people were spending piles of money before the change in direction and avalanche of "offers" to spend money. I remember cities from before FE was even around that had rows of the same event buildings, which could only be done with cash back then. There weren't enough worlds for Diamond farms to pay that cost back then.
No one is begrudging a business making money, but if you're in the entertainment business then you have to entertain in order to pull in the cash. And Inno has been on a non-entertaining tangent for quite a while now.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

We had a good guild until the Arc came along.

Same here. We were killing it in GE and working together socializing like family. Then the Arc fever hit and it all fell apart.