Limit Arc GB to level 40

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SouthPawPitcher

New Member
PROPOSAL
This proposal limits the Arc GB to level 40 or less.


CURRENT SYSTEM
An Arc GB can reach level 120 which provides about 100% extra contribution rewards. Through a quirk of the Arc GB rewards, thousands of additional forge points per day can be generated. These rewards are applied to Arc and other GBs in an abusive process called “Power Leveling”, where the time needed to level GBs is greatly reduced.


DETAILS
The prevalence of 100+ level Arc GBs has increased dramatically. To get a 100+ level Arc means the owner has been able to generate thousands of forge points each day. I have worked for weeks and months to improve my city’s production of forge points by participating in a guild, GE, and special events and measure it in tens of forge points each day. Then a new neighbor or guild member comes along that is generating thousands of forge points per day. The Arc GB is drastically changing the character of the game. I suggest limiting the Arc GB to level 40 or less.


ABUSE PREVENTION
This proposal ends the current abuse of the Arc GB called “Power Leveling”.


CONCLUSION
Early adopters of the Arc GB Power Leveling have attained a huge advantage. A critical mass has or soon will be reached where everyone will need to copy the abuse of the Arc GB in a wholesale arms race where the sole focus will be “Power Leveling” and nothing else will matter. The character of FOE will otherwise be irreparably damaged. The name of the game is Forge Of Empires not Forge An Arc.
 
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xivarmy

Well-Known Member
Alas the problem is people have already had them a long while and benefitted immensely from it. If you nerf it now in some manner they'll still have all their other buildings and be ahead of you - but you won't have the same path to catch back up anymore.
 

BruteForceAttack

Well-Known Member
What stops you from having a high level arc?

Nerfing something that is so popular is not a simple thing, people have spent weeks, months building up their arc. I feel that arc has actually taken away or atleast reduced competitive advantage of long time players.

Also if Inno does this, early adopters of the arc have taken full advantage of arc and leveled other gbs and made 1000's of fps and they will continue to have edge over players who have not leveled arc.
 
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Freshmeboy

Well-Known Member
So your vision is that of a holocaust of Arcs with everybody vying for power leveling and the rest of the game be damned...? Hmmmm...humans tend to evolve their gameplay, (Mostly against their idiosyncratic opposition to all change) so I can see where new players come in and gather fp producing buildings and self level. Why chase the prize when the gift of thousands of fps will come your way free...? Players who generate few fps from their cities will ALWAYS take a back seat to players who generate more..in swaps, tech and snipes. Advice for new players: The monthly events that started to occur regularly in 2017 are the key to forging a powerful empire...play the events and get the prizes. Do the tasks in the DCs and reap the rewards. Build a Temple and gain the relics. Do every damn RQ you can stand without going numb from finger fatigue and boredom....or just play casually and get steamrolled by those that invest time and money...NO vote here...
 

Crollito

Well-Known Member
I suppose one might ask what INNO's intention was with the introduction of the Arc. Was it to allow for a viable method for more advanced players to stratosphere their other buildings, when originally it was ridiculous to get much beyond level 20?

I will say this, barring new worlds, it's not out of reach for even very early players to get arcs. My main city is on Q, and when I was in the iron age and snooping around for good techniques on play, I decided to grab an arc. With no money spent, I had an arc in 9 days, and that's again in the Iron Age (I traded for a chateau at the same time as well actually). So it's not like it's impossible for everyone to have an arc. I get why some people are frustrated though: if you don't want to play the Arc game then you're going to be at a huge disadvantage.

That being said, it's too late for them to make a change like this imo. The backlash could be enough to kill the game. As they say, be careful what you wish for. Personally, I think the Arc is working as intended. Your visions simply weren't the same as INNO'S.

I vote no, as I'd rather not have the game implode. You can keep on hating the arc or adjust, because I don't foresee this kind of change ever going through.
 
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qaccy

Well-Known Member
@Crollito Essentially said what I was going to. The Arc is a prime candidate for a significant nerf/rebalance and I'm in full support of it happening. It's had such a profound impact on the game as a whole, even for those who don't have one and/or aren't really even interested in levelling GBs, and that sort of impact shouldn't be caused by what is, on paper, merely one item on a list totalling 34 GBs.

Yorkton has only one player higher than Contemporary Era, and thus only one player able to generate Arc BPs via things like quest and GE rewards. However, this server has over 150 Arcs and 28 of the top 50 GBs on the server are Arcs. This extreme proliferation and almost-fanatical desire to obtain an Arc as quickly as possible, despite the fact that it can cost anywhere from $100-200 to buy the goods to build one (this is the only way to acquire Future Era goods on such a young server), is a clear indication to me that something is very wrong here.

But still, it's far too late for Inno to do anything about it, even if they wanted to. The backlash would be unlike anything ever before seen on these community forums, and considering the tempers of some people that have visited here, that's saying a lot. We all just have to adapt to how the Arc has changed the game, for better or worse.
 

Falconwing

Well-Known Member
While I believe that in the future when people think back on what killed this game the Arc will get the credit. It is far too late to put that genie back in the bottle. I know I'm not going to continue to play if they neuter mine and mines only fifty something.
 

KingJase24

Well-Known Member
I agree that the Arc and related play-style has certainly evolved to the point where it dominates the game, but you could probably say the same thing about Traz. Both radically alter the game experience. In response to a question on our guild thread in Xyr, I recently compared it to the BC/AD system we use for dates IRL. There's FoE before Traz and Arc, after Traz but before Arc, and after Traz and Arc. Both GBs forever change the game once you get them.

In addition, as has been pointed out here, Inno would have to deal with the RL economic effect. As qaccy pointed out above, players shell out significant money (comes out to $149.44, assuming purchasing all 1,875 goods plus 8 BPs at the $79.99/11000 rate; $141.72 if you do it at the $199.99/29000 rate) to buy an Arc straight-up, especially in young worlds. You're talking about the nerf to end all nerfs, and it would be applied to THAT product. No company is going to want to take their top seller off the shelf. And the lost revenue from that would only be the start. They can't "grandfather in" the ones that already exist since that would be an insane advantage when no one else was allowed to catch up, so they'd have to retroactively take them all down to level 40. Thousands upon thousands of Arcs across dozens of worlds whose owners would scream bloody murder. You'd probably have some (who take the game a little too seriously) even try a class-action lawsuit. It would fail, but I bet someone would at least try it. And all those thousands of people are the ones who currently buy large diamond packs on a regular basis, and a large portion of them would probably walk away from the game entirely in anger over it.

So, this would remove the in-game item that is probably Inno's top seller as well as alienate and probably lose a huge chunk of their highest-paying customers, all in order to appease those who aren't pumping money into their coffers. That's not going to be a profitable move. I fully agree that the Arc has changed the FoE landscape in terms of gameplay (for better or worse is a matter opinion), but as Falconwing put it above, that genie is out of the bottle and you can't put him back in.
 

heybo

Well-Known Member
Don’t forget, we all experienced just a tiny sample of the fallout that would occur just recently when the Oracle of Delphi received a nerf and multiple levels of multiple GBs from multiple players across all servers were removed in Inno’s attempt at correcting the “abuse” that occurred there.

If you don’t recall, tiny, smidgen, infinitesimal sample of a total game killer if what you are suggesting is implemented...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa big NOPE for *anything* that makes us go through that again..
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
I vote no.

Sorry SPP, a year ago or better yet two years ago, this may have been enough to keep Arc ftom warping the game. Now? Doing this now just means that those who have used the Arc to it;s fullest will have an insurmountable game edge.

Heybo raises a great point, The reactions we've seen to other fixes/nerfs are nothing compared to what would come form this Proposal.

you could probably say the same thing about Traz.
Traz fails miserably in comparison to Arc in terms of breaking the game.CF comes closer, vut still falls far short but only because Arc enables powering it.

Traz is OP. But Traz s limited in what it effects, fighting and happiness.

What do you get for being the best fighter in the game? GE prizes? You can get those negotiating. GvG dominance? Some Power for your Guild. PvP Tower wins? A slow steady source of Medals. Plunder from your neighbors!

Aside from GE Prizes which you can get otherwise, how significant in terms of impact on the overall game is any benefit of Traz?

Good ol' Arc. Warps everything it touches. Much higher FP income, the third most valuable Resource in the game. Just the process of getting a powered Arc assures winning most if not all availavle Medal Expansions the second most baluable Resource in the game,

Powered Arc enables power leveling all other GBs, reducing the time from a year to a month or two (we;ve seen newly introduced GBs powered in days!) saving ridiculous amounts of time, the most valuable Resource in the game. Those powered GBs then produce even more FPs and Goods, the two Resources needed for technology reducing the cost and time for advancing through the game unlocking more Expansions.

Good ol' Arc Warps everything it touches. Unfortunately it touches everything in the game.

----------.

What's the long range effect of changing the time to reach the ultimate highs in this game being measured in months instead of years?

Is it good to have players quit because they 'got there' in a year or two? Will they get enough new players to join the game to replace those who cycle out?

On the other hand, maybe I'm crazy. Just as is the case of choosing not to fight at all in this game, a player could choose to not Arc up and still have fun playing the game.

Is it a serious problem having the game divided into two groups; Arcers and Arcless players?

Can someone explain how I'm getting steamrolled? I fail to understand how somebody else's high-level Arc impacts my game at all. Is it just because I'm not chasing the top spot on a list somewhere?
That;s a damn good question. One I really need to think through. Good job.
 
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Graviton

Well-Known Member
Much higher FP income, the third most valuable Resource in the game. Just the process of getting a powered Arc assures winning most if not all availavle Medal Expansions the second most baluable Resource in the game,

Powered Arc enables power leveling all other GBs, reducing the time from a year to a month or two (we;ve seen newly introduced GBs powered in days!) saving ridiculous amounts of time, the most valuable Resource in the game. Those powered GBs then produce even more FPs and Goods, the two Resources needed for technology reducing the cost and time for advancing through the game unlocking more Expansions.

Good ol' Arc Warps everything it touches. Unfortunately it touches everything in the game.
That helps to answer my question, although it still doesn't seem to affect me unless I don't want to see anybody advancing faster than I do. I suppose it might impact me tangentially, if a bunch of Arc-happy snipers are keeping me out of getting GB donation prizes, but I haven't seen that happen so far. The players with high-level Arcs seem to be interested in doing that only on other high-level Arcs.

What's the long range effect of changing the time to reach the ultimate highs in this game being measured in months instead of years?

Is it good to have players quit because they 'got there' in a year or two? Will they get enough new players to join the game to replace those who cycle out?
Great questions! One would hope Inno did that analysis already, but who knows.
 

SouthPawPitcher

New Member
Alas the problem is people have already had them a long while and benefitted immensely from it. If you nerf it now in some manner they'll still have all their other buildings and be ahead of you - but you won't have the same path to catch back up anymore.
What stops you from having a high level arc?

Nerfing something that is so popular is not a simple thing, people have spent weeks, months building up their arc. I feel that arc has actually taken away or atleast reduced competitive advantage of long time players.

Also if Inno does this, early adopters of the arc have taken full advantage of arc and leveled other gbs and made 1000's of fps and they will continue to have edge over players who have not leveled arc.
So your vision is that of a holocaust of Arcs with everybody vying for power leveling and the rest of the game be damned...? Hmmmm...humans tend to evolve their gameplay, (Mostly against their idiosyncratic opposition to all change) so I can see where new players come in and gather fp producing buildings and self level. Why chase the prize when the gift of thousands of fps will come your way free...? Players who generate few fps from their cities will ALWAYS take a back seat to players who generate more..in swaps, tech and snipes. Advice for new players: The monthly events that started to occur regularly in 2017 are the key to forging a powerful empire...play the events and get the prizes. Do the tasks in the DCs and reap the rewards. Build a Temple and gain the relics. Do every damn RQ you can stand without going numb from finger fatigue and boredom....or just play casually and get steamrolled by those that invest time and money...NO vote here...
No the key for new players will be get an Arc Power Level it then Power Level all your other GBs. Quests, Events, etc. are a waste of time
 

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
Can someone explain how I'm getting steamrolled? I fail to understand how somebody else's high-level Arc impacts my game at all. Is it just because I'm not chasing the top spot on a list somewhere?
Negatively:
You might be sharing FPswap arrangements with a high level arc owner who can pursue them more aggressively than you.
If you hunt the hood for profit opportunities and there's a high level arc doing the same they're likely to take them before they're close enough for you to.
If you have goals and see them getting there much faster than you, it might drive you mad with jealousy.
You might be trying to GvG against them and have a much harder time exhausting their goods (if they're FE or lower).

Positively:
They might snipe your buildings for more FP than you'd otherwise get.

Noncompetitively:
They won't. But I really haven't met too many people who aren't competitive at all - some compete less hard, but most folks are trying to do better at something.
 

Hootengoben

Well-Known Member
But still, it's far too late for Inno to do anything about it, even if they wanted to. The backlash would be unlike anything ever before seen on these community forums, and considering the tempers of some people that have visited here, that's saying a lot. We all just have to adapt to how the Arc has changed the game, for better or worse.
^This^
While I believe that in the future when people think back on what killed this game the Arc will get the credit. It is far too late to put that genie back in the bottle. I know I'm not going to continue to play if they neuter mine and mines only fifty something.
^This^

and also
 

gutmeister

Well-Known Member
Can someone explain how I'm getting steamrolled? I fail to understand how somebody else's high-level Arc impacts my game at all. Is it just because I'm not chasing the top spot on a list somewhere?
This to me is the philosophically most interesting aspect of this game. Anyone who starts on an existing world for their main city even a few months after it opens has 0 chance of ever being the "best". But what's the point of playing? To have fun I assume. To those complaining how Arc warps the game, you're absolutely right. It makes the most powerful the most powerful by a lot, raises the average and median considerably.

The solution is to "keep up with the Jones'" and get your own. But why? If you enjoy progressing more slowly without the Arc, that's great! You're 0% to be the best, so who cares if your 500th or 5000th? Others will fly by you, but if you enjoy moving more slowly then that's fine?

The problem comes from campers who can build whatever they want in Iron Age and level it as high as they want (only bad if they use it to pick on hoodies). If one couldn't build a GB outside of their Era (or at least cap it at level 10 let's say if not in your era), would that solve the Arc's "negative" impact?
 

Claire the Divergent

Active Member
@Crollito But still, it's far too late for Inno to do anything about it, even if they wanted to.
They have already done something about it by changing the leveling curve for AF and OF GBs. The GBs of those Eras are still affected by Arcs, but are drastically less "power level-able".

@CrollitoWe all just have to adapt to how the Arc has changed the game, for better or worse.
Agree 100%. This is still a great game, and there's a lot to love about it for the people that can get past the changes the Arc has created.
 
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