DeletedUser26965
Ah no, we've had this discussion already, it is theft and inno calls it so, so clearly those goods belong to thy maker.
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DeletedUser31440
Is that a proverbial we, or actually you and I? I believe Inno calls it sabotaging, not theft though.
DeletedUser26965
Well, it's the Stephen Longshanks and me kind of we some time ago, he didn't think it was theft either but I set him straight with FoE's own words from the tips.
Here ya go: Plunder progress
DeletedUser31440
According to FoE's own words you can fix every issue you have in game by clearing your cache, not sure how much stock I'd put into those words.
Graviton
Well-Known Member
I still agree with sloppy on this one. You're taking something that you didn't produce, by force, from somebody else. It is not a consensual transaction, which makes it theft. But neither is it trickery or unfair, because it's as much a part of FoE as are GBs and the tech tree. And it's fun! But yeah, it's theft.
DeletedUser31440
I can understand what you two are saying, I just don't agree that it is the property of a player before being collected, so I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. But if you'd like we can all have one sided conversations in loud tones until one side gets bored and stops.
DeletedUser
BEEN THERE, DONE THAT! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..................
DeletedUser31440
ZZzz? Those one sided conversations in loud tones are 99% of the reason to come onto this forum.
DeletedUser26965
Nope. It's theft plain and simple. There is no disagreement here, just blindness and willful ignorance on your part. That player you stole the goods from made the goods through his own labor and all you're doing is appropriation of the fruits of someone else's labor. Call it what it is, own it, you're a thief and thieves steal.
Definition of steal
stole play \ˈstōl\; stolen play \ˈstō-lən\; stealing
intransitive verb
: to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice
Definition of theft
1a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it
: an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property
DeletedUser13736
I plunder. I plunder a lot. I don't mind being called a thief, because I am comfortable enough in my own skin, that it doesn't affect me.
That being said, I do belief that uncollected buildings are still "technically" the "property" of the player that placed them there. Plundering is a part of the game. The different names for it do not matter.
That being said, I do belief that uncollected buildings are still "technically" the "property" of the player that placed them there. Plundering is a part of the game. The different names for it do not matter.
DeletedUser26965
I like an honest thief.
DeletedUser
Sorry, I got bored. This is my second time round in this particular LOUD conversation.
DeletedUser31440
So this is why I don't think that it is stealing:
Inno is essentially the governing party of this game and they ask for you to plunder on occasion, so it's not only not illegal but endorsed.
As to @sloppyjoeslayer pointing out that Inno calls it stealing, that's using them as a character witness of sorts and it can easily be shown that Inno isn't forthright in what they say. That takes away their credibility nullifying their input.
Also yes, I am in one point using Inno to say that it isn't stealing and in another saying that Inno isn't credible enough to be used as justification.
Inno is essentially the governing party of this game and they ask for you to plunder on occasion, so it's not only not illegal but endorsed.
As to @sloppyjoeslayer pointing out that Inno calls it stealing, that's using them as a character witness of sorts and it can easily be shown that Inno isn't forthright in what they say. That takes away their credibility nullifying their input.
Also yes, I am in one point using Inno to say that it isn't stealing and in another saying that Inno isn't credible enough to be used as justification.
Graviton
Well-Known Member
Well sure, I acknowledged previously that it's an integral part of the game, and that it's fun. I don't think it should go away or anything. But it still fits the definition of stealing. Whether or not it's legal or even encouraged within the game has nothing to do with it.
DeletedUser31440
Yeah, not buying that. Possession is a legal status, if there is no law governing possession there is no theft. There may be moral objections to taking the stuff but there is no basis in law so it can't be theft.
Graviton
Well-Known Member
That's just a rationalization, Ozy, when there isn't need for one. Taking other people's stuff by force is legal and encouraged in this game, okay, cool. That's an objective fact: there are no 'legal' ramifications for doing so. But it doesn't magically transform the act into something other than taking other people's stuff by force.
We are now literally arguing semantics.
We are now literally arguing semantics.
DeletedUser31592
If you leave an expensive bike laying in your yard and I take it, I am stealing, sure, but it is really on you for not taking care of it. It is a crime of opportunity. Same with plundering. Lock your stuff up if you don't want it carried off.
Graviton
Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you; precisely because it's legal to steal in this game, the only defense is to leave nothing out to steal. But, again, that doesn't mean it's not stealing.
DeletedUser31440
That's just a rationalization, Ozy, when there isn't need for one. Taking other people's stuff by force is legal and encouraged in this game, okay, cool. That's an objective fact: there are no 'legal' ramifications for doing so. But it doesn't magically transform the act into something other than taking other people's stuff by force.
We are now literally arguing semantics.
It does magically transform it, because it gets rid of the ability to call something someone's stuff. It doesn't get rid of the morality of the action, but that's a different discussion all together. Stealing and theft are both legal terms and as there are no laws governing social interactions between players (other than abusive language) there can't be theft.
Graviton
Well-Known Member
Stealing and theft are terms that involve property rights, not necessarily the law. Written law is not the end-all, be-all of human interaction. Property rights existed before they were codified. In fact, that's why they were codified, because they already existed and people wanted a governing entity to enforce them instead of relying on themselves to do it.
But since nothing in your city; in fact, not even your city itself is your property, according to your defintion, then give up your password so I can do some caretaking of all that stuff that doesn't really belong to you.
Enough with that. I made my case. If you don't want to believe it's stealing for whatever reason, you go on ahead.
But since nothing in your city; in fact, not even your city itself is your property, according to your defintion, then give up your password so I can do some caretaking of all that stuff that doesn't really belong to you.
Enough with that. I made my case. If you don't want to believe it's stealing for whatever reason, you go on ahead.