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Negotiating Nonsense

Kranyar the Mysterious

Well-Known Member
I do think that negotiating in Battlegrounds should have an extra turn option, like the Guild Expedition does. When there are 6 possible goods, it is very unlikely that one can successfully negotiate without spending Diamonds or repeating the negotiation 3 or more times, until the solution has less possible number of goods. Oh, btw, when a negotiation fails, and the pop-up comes up about the Diamonds, it totally blocks the player's view of the negotiation, and a player can't really evaluate whether paying the Diamonds is a good option.
The offshoot of getting your desire would be getting 10 good negotiations in GBG like you currently do in GE.

You sure you want that?

I sure don't, since I can do 6 good negotiations without a tavern boost, but I can't do 10 good negotiations without one, and my tavern boost slot is normally already taken by a 24 hour attack boost.
 

Henrik the Seer

New Member
I much prefer negotiating in BGs than in GE. I don't need to negotiate to get through GE. But I do need to negotiate because of my diplomatic rewards opportunities, and negotiating in BGs is great for high attrition targets.
 

Kranyar the Mysterious

Well-Known Member
I much prefer negotiating in BGs than in GE. I don't need to negotiate to get through GE. But I do need to negotiate because of my diplomatic rewards opportunities, and negotiating in BGs is great for high attrition targets.
Ok, while I think that negotiating in GBG (beyond using up your SC charges) is not the optimum method, I can understand your preference. So are you saying that you would rather have lots of 10 good negotiations with a boost over 6 good negotiations without one? I'm not sure.

Remember, with the boost you are now spending more goods overall and taking more turns (hence time) negotiating a GBG sector. I don't know about your guild, but in my guild sectors don't stay open more than a minute or two total before they get finished.

And you also need to consider that your preferred option is almost certainly not the preferred option of a vast number of GBG players, especially in top guilds, and that adding a tavern boost for negotiating in GBG would quite likely hurt their game to some extent.
 

Henrik the Seer

New Member
I do think that negotiating in Battlegrounds should have an extra turn option, like the Guild Expedition does.

That's what I said. Kranyar, you pose some 10 vs. 6 choice that I don't know what you are talking about. My statement is clear. How that would be accomplished does not necessarily need to be through a Tavern boost. It could be a consumable boost, a BGs reward, there are lots of possibilities.
 
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wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
You get the extra turn in GE but there are 10 goods options for some of the negotiations (as in goods from more than 1 age) to make up for the ability to get that extra turn at times. Kranyar's saying if Inno adds a way to get an extra turn they'll add more difficult negotiations to GBG (specifically 10 goods as that is what they did when they gave the free turn via the tavern).

Inno uses some metric to decide how difficult something is and since you can win diamonds in GBG they'll not want to make it easy enough to impact their revenue. Easier negotiations means less people spending diamonds to complete and more people winning diamonds (and thus having no reason to buy diamonds). It's free to play not free to run so making a free turn for a relatively easy to get resource within the game could have economic impacts on the game.

You are welcome to your opinion but I doubt you are considering anything beyond the benefit to you and not bothering to consider the impact on the game.
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
Kranyar, you pose some 10 vs. 6 choice that I don't know what you are talking about. My statement is clear. How that would be accomplished does not necessarily need to be thought a Tavern boost. It could be a consumable boost, a BGs reward, there are lots of possibilities.
The developers themselves made a statement on Beta at the time of Guild Battlegrounds release that if a negotiating boost were present then you’d be choosing from a higher amounts of goods, that the 6 goods options instead of 10 is because you don’t have a boost available. They also stated that the boost would be in the form of a Tavern boost

How often would you be able to sustain such a boost? Once a day? Few times a week? How often would you actually need such a boost to be active and could you feasibly sustain the Tavern Silver cost to do so?
 

Pericles the Lion

Active Member
How often would you be able to sustain such a boost? Once a day? Few times a week? How often would you actually need such a boost to be active and could you feasibly sustain the Tavern Silver cost to do so?
@Emberguard asked a very good question. Another question is how often will other players be able to sustain such a boost? There is a regressive nature to the cost of tavern boosts. Early in the game it is much more difficult to accumulate tavern silver than it is later on. If a GBG extra turn boost was available I believe it would be much more affordable to later era players than new players but all players would become subject to 10 good negos in GBG.
 

The Lady Redneck

Well-Known Member
I do think that negotiating in Battlegrounds should have an extra turn option, like the Guild Expedition does.
I see no reason at all for an extra turn for GBG negs. most can be done in 3, or even 2 attempts. Plus in an active guild holds are placed to keep the farming checker board running smoothly. This takes time and effort to set up work properly. Most guilds with experienced fighters can reach the hold limit on a tile in the time it takes to do 1 negotiation. It only takes a few members negotiating on a fast tile to flip it and screw things up, and therefore ruin the work put in by the GBG leaders in all the guilds concerned.

So would you always be prepared to back out in the middle of your negotiation and lose the goods already used in it so the hold on the tile was not put in risk?
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
So would you always be prepared to back out in the middle of your negotiation and lose the goods already used in it so the hold on the tile was not put in risk?
No. Because if you're guild is cutting the hold to within two advances of flipping, you're doing it wrong. Either leadership is giving bad instruction, or the fighters are going past what they ought. No way a single negotiation flips a tile unless others have already screwed it up.
 

Sharmon the Impaler

Active Member
No. Because if you're guild is cutting the hold to within two advances of flipping, you're doing it wrong. Either leadership is giving bad instruction, or the fighters are going past what they ought. No way a single negotiation flips a tile unless others have already screwed it up.
Agreed , in most sectors due for flipping the push stops at 150 with a stop sign and then a designated person walks it up with everyone else off the sector. If it is a rewards only sector not intended for flipping then the stop is usually at 140. This equals -10 from flip and -20 from flipping respectively for whatever the totals are below the diamond league.
 

The Lady Redneck

Well-Known Member
No. Because if you're guild is cutting the hold to within two advances of flipping, you're doing it wrong. Either leadership is giving bad instruction, or the fighters are going past what they ought. No way a single negotiation flips a tile unless others have already screwed it up.
No. When a lot of folks are hitting a tile fast and a few are negotiating it is very easy to run a hold of 10 or more if the players are not watching the fight count because they are in the middle of a negotiation. . Even when everyone does hit the breaks If those doing the negs do not stop and back out it can cost the tile. I do not see this problem in my main guild as it is all experienced players. But in my other world this does happen. And we are not silly enough to cut a hold to 2 advances. It is easy now to do a snapshot of who is fighting when a hold goes up. Then another after that to show the late finishers. When asked it is because they were negotiating.
 
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Kranyar the Mysterious

Well-Known Member
@Emberguard asked a very good question. Another question is how often will other players be able to sustain such a boost? There is a regressive nature to the cost of tavern boosts. Early in the game it is much more difficult to accumulate tavern silver than it is later on. If a GBG extra turn boost was available I believe it would be much more affordable to later era players than new players but all players would become subject to 10 good negos in GBG.
However, players who auto-battle extensively in GBG are likely to already have their tavern boost slot filled with a 24 hour attack boost, so now if they wanted to negotiate they would have to spend diamonds to activate the second tavern boost in order to be able to complete 8, 9, or 10 good negotiations, so I actually see this idea hurting later era players more than early era players.
 

Henrik the Seer

New Member
There is an inherent inadequacy to the negotiation mini-game in Battlegrounds. To extend a negotiation now, the cost is 10 Diamonds. There is no other alternative. In Guild Expedition, there is an alternative: a Tavern boost. Then, to further extend, Diamonds.

This is the issue that I question.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
There is an inherent inadequacy to the negotiation mini-game in Battlegrounds. To extend a negotiation now, the cost is 10 Diamonds. There is no other alternative. In Guild Expedition, there is an alternative: a Tavern boost. Then, to further extend, Diamonds.

This is the issue that I question.
And the answer that you're ignoring is that if the boost were to work in GBG, Inno would increase the possible number of goods/resources to choose from. Probably the higher the attrition, the more possible goods/resources. In GE, it goes as high as 10 resources to choose from. The real question is: Are you willing to increase the possible number of goods/resources by 67% just to have a 33% increase in turns? That sounds like a losing proposition to me, especially in GBG where speed is key for most guilds. Negotiations already take longer than auto battle with 3 turns, and now you want 4? I really hope you get it, but then I don't negotiate when I play GBG. :D