Negotiation Game Feedback

[DeletedUser8420]

Ok this last time I did a negotiation it charged me for nanos showing me I didn't have enough in my inventory to cover the deal. BUT when I went back to my inventory I in fact had more then enough to cover the negotiation, therefore the system took my diamonds instead of using what I had in my inventory...Speaking of which why are the goods coming out of our personal inventory instead of the guild treasury? We should be able to tap into the guild treasury for these goods considering our Observatory puts those into the treasury in the first place.

I have contacted support waiting for an answer...which if past indicates any thing of substance will be a non-answer at best.

 

[DeletedUser8152]

Guild treasury pays to open levels, but solving the encounters is done via player resources.

The problem with your nano, I don't know.

 

[DeletedUser13942]

Too many possibilties, too few turns. Not going to be messing with this anymore. ONLY 10 diamonds for 1 more turn. yeah right, all i see is a way for Inno to leech out alot of diamonds in small doses.

Too make it more appealing they should add 1 more turn or reduce the combinations by either 1 leader or 1 good. I understand the profitability side but in it's current state I would not spend a single diamons for anything. If I was moderately sure that "1 more diamond turn" would yield a good result I'd consider paying the 10 diamonds, but in it's current state I will not

 

[DeletedUser14197]

True no you don't lose entire units but there is a cost via diamonds to heal them ...unless you win the battle and/or surrender to allow them to heal which costs time. Additionally, you have to pay coins/supplies to retrain those that you do lose in battle. So no matter what there is a cost even if you win.

I never use diamonds to heal my units. I would imagine that lots of us don't who have a traz. When I am pretty sure I will lose 1 at most, I may use all unattached, and than just use new unattached for the next fight. I do use attached, especially for the mroe difficult battles where I believe I may lose a few. So I have to pay coins and supplies to retrain them, but it is really a pittance considering how many coins and supplies I have. And reality is, that even if I used attached, I don't always lose any troops, so it doesn't cost me a thing. Actually if I use unattached and lose them, it still doesn't cost me a thing. Also, if I lose attached rogues, it also doesn't cost me anything other than time. I have no idea what the negotiations cost in comparison as I don't negotiate. I have completed level 3 a number of times now, fighting.

 

[DeletedUser26306]

I still don't see any justification that validates the difference between fighting and negotiations
fighting: if I don't make it through (yet) I can better myself with tech or GB. There is very limited luck involved.
negotiations: It is near impossible unless high doses of extreme luck to even finish level 2, way too many options. There is no way to better yourself or increase your chances without draining 200-500 diamonds EACH WEEK to finish.

For some it may be ok that it costs that many every week, for others it's not. This is in no regard anywhere near "an opportunity for those favoring trade", this is "hey, you traders don't pay up enough so we'll take it this way".
My best friend fights GE on ME level, she has a breeze finishing level 3. I was so exited finally participating but it is nothing but a huge disappointment.

If I was moderately sure that "1 more diamond turn" would yield a good result I'd consider paying the 10 diamonds, but in it's current state I will not

Even if it was 1 turn, you'd have at least 8 times you have to do it. Plus the extra round of goods it costs.

 

[qaccy]

I think this is a great feature for those who fall squarely into the 'trader' category. You can't really compare this system to having hundreds of unattached rogues thanks to Alcatraz and using them to brute-force your way through, as the game is designed around not having those things, even if it is 'easy' to acquire them. A more accurate comparison would be fighting through GE without using rogues. That would make it a fair bit more challenging, wouldn't it?

All that being said, one reasonable improvement I could think of would be to allow 4 attempts rather than 3 for the 'temple' battles.

 

[DeletedUser26154]

Once I realized the game developers don't pay attention to these forums, I stopped airing my griefs.

 

[DeletedUser9291]

Let us hear your thoughts about the new Negotiation Game for Guild Expeditions.
We are interested in hearing what you have to say!

Your Forge of Empires Team

I was saving up for a GB and didn't mind spending a few goods. It did not seem like a lot to give for the negotiation and I did not mind "guessing" over and over until I ran out of attempts. I also did not mind occasionally spending 10 diamonds to have a 4th or 5th guess. And then it asked if I wanted to spend some diamonds for Algae on my next guess. Algae - what do you mean - I should have a lot of Algae!! Then I realized - it takes your goods from you even if your guess is wrong!!!! I was losing all of my saved goods on guesses that did not pay off. I went and carefully read the directions and came across this line -
Keep in mind that the resources are taken upon offering them to the inhabitants and not when they accept your offer. So they take them away even if they don't want them!
I felt sick - all of my save goods gone. All that work for a new GB - gone. And I was having so much fun with the negotiating. I would much rather lose fighters - I get more of them for free every 24 hours from Alcatraz! Even if I didn't, fighters cost coin and supply - easy to earn. Goods are NOT easy to earn. Negotiating is not worth it if I lose precious goods for wrong guesses. I would never give someone goods or money if I knew they were going to take it and still say no. That is not negotiation, that is THEFT.

 

[DeletedUser7289]

Really, people?
I'll state clearly that I am a fighter first, but to test it for my guild I tried negotiating a sector of GE. It's a pretty basic logic puzzle (someone brought up the old Mastermind game, which uses the same process) and not all that hard to solve. Yes, it does have a cost, as does fighting. I feel that working for the rewards is part of the game, and it shouldn't always be easy or cheap. The 'negotiate' option seems pretty well balanced to me (and I doubt I'll ever use it again; I like to fight). It's not supposed to be a 'freebie' way to get the rewards.

 

[wolfhoundtoo]

@Qiller

The comparison to fighting is pretty simple actually: you lost the goods that 'died' in the negotiation game. You guessed wrong and lost what was on the table.

As for the battles themselves we don't get 3 tries at a fight for free either. We can retreat but once it's the enemy's turn we take our lumps and leave the field with what's left if we don't like the results. Same as the negotiation game.

As for some of the other issues:

Attached troops do not cost just coin/supplies. They require barracks which require free population and space in our cities. Build more goods factories if you want to guess more just as we have to build more barracks if we want to keep fighting as our units take damage and/or are killed. yes the Alcatraz great building can generate free troops but that requires quite a bit of space in our City and quite a few forge points to get them up to generating sufficient unattached troops. In addition to be able to win we've also dedicated space in our cities for the attack great buildings and the required number of forge points to get them our attack and defense boosts to useful levels. There is actually a Great Building that you can use to generate 'free goods' every day: the Dynamic Tower. Probably won't be enough by itself to pay for the negotiation game but neither is the traz by itself sufficient to win thru by attacking.

Please remember that the primary bonus of this game is meant to benefit the guild and not the individual. So you need to factor in the gain for the guild before you say it costs too much.

The game itself can be done without spending too many diamonds. I've negotiated a few times (and at the higher levels) and gotten it done in 3 to 5 turns. There is a strategy to narrowing down the options that if you employ it that can help you solve the encounters quicker. If you don't like how the game has gone because you haven't narrowed the options down enough then retreat and try again.

 

[DeletedUser14197]

@Qiller

The comparison to fighting is pretty simple actually: you lost the goods that 'died' in the negotiation game. You guessed wrong and lost what was on the table.

As for the battles themselves we don't get 3 tries at a fight for free either. We can retreat but once it's the enemy's turn we take our lumps and leave the field with what's left if we don't like the results. Same as the negotiation game.

As for some of the other issues:

Attached troops do not cost just coin/supplies. They require barracks which require free population and space in our cities. Build more goods factories if you want to guess more just as we have to build more barracks if we want to keep fighting as our units take damage and/or are killed. yes the Alcatraz great building can generate free troops but that requires quite a bit of space in our City and quite a few forge points to get them up to generating sufficient unattached troops. In addition to be able to win we've also dedicated space in our cities for the attack great buildings and the required number of forge points to get them our attack and defense boosts to useful levels. There is actually a Great Building that you can use to generate 'free goods' every day: the Dynamic Tower. Probably won't be enough by itself to pay for the negotiation game but neither is the traz by itself sufficient to win thru by attacking.

Please remember that the primary bonus of this game is meant to benefit the guild and not the individual. So you need to factor in the gain for the guild before you say it costs too much.

The game itself can be done without spending too many diamonds. I've negotiated a few times (and at the higher levels) and gotten it done in 3 to 5 turns. There is a strategy to narrowing down the options that if you employ it that can help you solve the encounters quicker. If you don't like how the game has gone because you haven't narrowed the options down enough then retreat and try again.

Really I think the negotiating is a lot worse than the fighting. I fight my way thru all 3 levels and true I have one barrks each of hovers and RGs, but that is all. It cost coins and supplies, which I have plenty of them to retrain them. I do have a traz, so have tons of unattached. I get totally enough to make it thru level 3 even if I count only those I get for one week If I lose a few it is no big deal. No one can plunder my barraks like they can goods buildings. Rogues are free to retrain. I do have the attack great buildings, but get more than just bonuses and troops from them. There is very little guess work in fighting. I may pick the wrong troops and have to surrender and retry, but it is normally pretty logical and I don't have to pay any diamonds. To me, fighting and negotiation is a totally different thing. I have never played mastermind, so don't know anything about that, and maybe people who negotiate will get to a point where they can go thru all levels negotiating and not having to pay out diamonds. If it is a skill to be learned, that is one thing. If it is random, like the events, it is totally another thing. I will keep reading the forum and if in a month or so, I see people saying that it now makes sense and no longer frustrates them, but is an enjoyable aspect to the game, I may try to learn it. However, if it stays like it is now, I wouldn't want to even waste my time on it.And taking goods when they refuse your offer simply does not make any sense at all. Charge people coins and supplies to make offers (that is all we pay to fight) and only take the goods when the offer is accepted. Than we would be closer to having 2 ways to make it thru all levels that are the same cost for both fighter and trader.

 

[DeletedUser25586]

Really, people?
I'll state clearly that I am a fighter first, but to test it for my guild I tried negotiating a sector of GE. It's a pretty basic logic puzzle (someone brought up the old Mastermind game, which uses the same process) and not all that hard to solve. Yes, it does have a cost, as does fighting. I feel that working for the rewards is part of the game, and it shouldn't always be easy or cheap. The 'negotiate' option seems pretty well balanced to me (and I doubt I'll ever use it again; I like to fight). It's not supposed to be a 'freebie' way to get the rewards.

It sounds like you tried negotiating at the very beginning and then never again. Read through this thread. It's not a "pretty basic logic puzzle" that's "not all that hard to solve" at later stages when you have 5 people, 7 or 8 resources, and 3 attempts. Since several people can ask for the same thing, there are 7^5=16,807 possibilities when it's 7 resources, and 8^5=32,768 possibilities when it's 8 resources. To succeed in this, it's just luck and/or paying lots of diamonds for more turns, and since the resources they demand get reset after each attempt, there is very little strategy about it.

 

[DeletedUser23444]

As is normally consistent with my crappy RNG luck in FoE (think scoring 4 completely useless Color Guard Camps in the Easter Event but only scoring 1 Foeberge as my over-under par) the attached screen grab below demonstrates the absolute worst possible luck for GE Negotiation.

This was my final encounter from Modern Era GE, on Level 3 difficulty. The player is presented with 10 different resources to offer 5 tribal elders.

Note that the number of turns required to solve such a puzzle is far above the 3 a player is given. And that is if we could assume (but we cannot) that the 10 possible resources would only be used a single time. However, this is not the case. And this example will illustrate how improbable solving a GE negotiation can become.

In my first turn, I chose 5 completely different resources to either rule in or rule out those 5 as possible correct resources to some elder. I saw that 2 resources were correct, but they were offered to the wrong elders. In my second turn, I once again offered 5 completely different resources, skipping the 2 resources from my first turn I knew are still in play. Once again, I chose 5 completely different resources to rule in or rule out all 10 possible resources

As my luck would have it, the 5 elders collectively only wanted 2 of the possible 10 resources—the very 2 resources that were revealed as offered to the incorrect elder in my first turn.

But I want to point out that If I had played my first 2 turns any other way, it would have been next to impossible to figure out that the 5 elders collectively only wanted 2 different resources.

 

[DeletedUser8152]

So the question is, how many times should you need to try that negotiation game (at 3 guesses per trial) in order to expect to win? Obviously more than once, but if it is less than 10 then it seems OK to me.

I could probably figure it out eventually but it seems like it would take a while

 

[wolfhoundtoo]

Really I think the negotiating is a lot worse than the fighting. I fight my way thru all 3 levels and true I have one barrks each of hovers and RGs, but that is all. It cost coins and supplies, which I have plenty of them to retrain them. I do have a traz, so have tons of unattached. I get totally enough to make it thru level 3 even if I count only those I get for one week If I lose a few it is no big deal. No one can plunder my barraks like they can goods buildings. Rogues are free to retrain. I do have the attack great buildings, but get more than just bonuses and troops from them. There is very little guess work in fighting. I may pick the wrong troops and have to surrender and retry, but it is normally pretty logical and I don't have to pay any diamonds. To me, fighting and negotiation is a totally different thing. I have never played mastermind, so don't know anything about that, and maybe people who negotiate will get to a point where they can go thru all levels negotiating and not having to pay out diamonds. If it is a skill to be learned, that is one thing. If it is random, like the events, it is totally another thing. I will keep reading the forum and if in a month or so, I see people saying that it now makes sense and no longer frustrates them, but is an enjoyable aspect to the game, I may try to learn it. However, if it stays like it is now, I wouldn't want to even waste my time on it.And taking goods when they refuse your offer simply does not make any sense at all. Charge people coins and supplies to make offers (that is all we pay to fight) and only take the goods when the offer is accepted. Than we would be closer to having 2 ways to make it thru all levels that are the same cost for both fighter and trader.

I agree that the fighting is in many ways easier than negotiating (and i prefer the fighting method although I did alternate negotiating with fighting on two worlds at the high level to check the difficulty of the negotiation game) however you don't make it through fighting GE with just 2 barracks. You are making it through by utilizing a large number of unattached that you've compiled from your Alcatraz (the build up of such units takes time, forge points and conversation of such units). You are clearly fighting multiple times and spending the time it takes (and trying again) when you realize you didn't get the start that you wanted on your 1st try.

I also disagree that it only costs coins/supplies as the 2 wave battles no doubt can cost some people diamonds to get thru both levels. It depends on their skill level in maximizing the terrain boosts/special abilities , their attack/defense boosts, the choices in picking the units that they utilize in the fight and their choice in target selection/prioritization. As for the 'other bonus' from the attack GB the Zeus has none, the COA gives a few coins which does nothing really to justify the size and the CDM gives fps (ok I'll admit that's a nice bonus). Also while true no one can plunder GBs they can't plunder you if you collect on time which running the goods buildings cycle correctly would be on the player. Lastly as I noted in my 1st post the players have a choice of getting the Dynamic Tower and leveling that up to gather goods. Yes i'm aware it's a high level age wise but there are still ways to get it if a player really wants it.

In the end my basic point is not that easy to get thru GE level III by fighting as you seem to think and for players without a Traz they need to have dedicated a fair few barracks in their city to do so.

 

[wolfhoundtoo]

Oh one more follow up: It only costs you coins/supplies to make the goods you are trading as well. Why does the idea that goods are inherently more valuable than troops when both are created by coins/supplies?

 

[DeletedUser14197]

I agree that the fighting is in many ways easier than negotiating (and i prefer the fighting method although I did alternate negotiating with fighting on two worlds at the high level to check the difficulty of the negotiation game) however you don't make it through fighting GE with just 2 barracks. You are making it through by utilizing a large number of unattached that you've compiled from your Alcatraz (the build up of such units takes time, forge points and conversation of such units). You are clearly fighting multiple times and spending the time it takes (and trying again) when you realize you didn't get the start that you wanted on your 1st try.

I also disagree that it only costs coins/supplies as the 2 wave battles no doubt can cost some people diamonds to get thru both levels. It depends on their skill level in maximizing the terrain boosts/special abilities , their attack/defense boosts, the choices in picking the units that they utilize in the fight and their choice in target selection/prioritization. As for the 'other bonus' from the attack GB the Zeus has none, the COA gives a few coins which does nothing really to justify the size and the CDM gives fps (ok I'll admit that's a nice bonus). Also while true no one can plunder GBs they can't plunder you if you collect on time which running the goods buildings cycle correctly would be on the player. Lastly as I noted in my 1st post the players have a choice of getting the Dynamic Tower and leveling that up to gather goods. Yes i'm aware it's a high level age wise but there are still ways to get it if a player really wants it.

In the end my basic point is not that easy to get thru GE level III by fighting as you seem to think and for players without a Traz they need to have dedicated a fair few barracks in their city to do so.

I said I had a traz. You don't have to get very high level to ahve enough. The thing is, it doesn't take long to have a reserve of rogues and one can use these unattached for battles and put in new ones each times they need training. One could do this also if they happened to collect enough rogues to just keep using and reusing them. My guild doesn't open up level 3 each week which is fine by me. I doubt I will do it anymore anyway. I think the entire thing is too time consuming so decided I would only do the battles I could do on auto. I found out I could do up thru level 2 on auto with only having maybe 2 battles in level 2 where I lost lots of fighters. A lot of them I can use unattached and let them retrain. I just finished level 2 today. It is true when I do level 3, I do lose a few more players because time is limited to complete it. However, I still think it cost less than negotiating and from the sounds of it, it may even take less time. I actually didn't realize that "farmers" don't get the CDM and Zeus and Aachan or any barraks. Guess I figured everyone got those. I was never told when I started that I was to decide if I was goign eto be a farmer or a fighter. At any rate, one week I lost around 12 units on level 2. I won 8 units. Therefore the loss was 4 units. Actually lower since a lot of the units I lost, were attached. Granted, I lose more on level 2 when I do it all on auto and I also lose more on unit 3 where I win 12 unattached units from fighting thru it. Of course a farmer wins those units too, though from the sounds of it, they would certainly not have use for anymore than they need to set up city defense. So that is anther negative for a farmer. The rewards of unattached units must not be really much of a reward, though actually, I don't care if I get them either anymore. I do like having some that I do not have the barraks for.

 

[DeletedUser1753]

In fighting when you go in with the wrong troops, you give up or loose your units. Then you learn and know you have to go in again with a different setup. No such thing in negotiation: what you got slaughtered with can in the next try be the winning combo. It is pure luck, no skill, no tech, no learning, no boost by GB. Luck is the only factor.
I'm not saying every encounter should be as easy as 100% succesrate in 3 tries. By no means would that be fair. But if the average tries needed to solve it is say 12 on the higher encounters, you should get say 6 free tries. If that didn't work out, you can either buy or retreat to try again.
3 Is just way, way, way, way too low for the higher encounters.

 

[DeletedUser13838]

I tried negotiating 3 of the last 4 battles in level 3 (I fought the last one). The first time I got it without the need for diamonds, the 2nd I needed 2 extra turns and the 3rd I needed 1 extra turn but I knew exactly what I had to do.

Going forward I think if I do use negotiation I will only use an extra turn if I'm guaranteed to get it right. I think people are seriously overstating the difficulty by assuming that we are guessing randomly on the 2nd and 3rd turns.

 

[DeletedUser14276]

I think I like it better now that I have a good idea how to use it. I prefer to fight, but if I think I'll lose or take too many losses, I'll mess with the negotiations some. Until this week, I was having to quit when I finished Lv2. Some of those Lv3 combos were just too tough, but with a few well placed negotiations, some persistence & some luck of course, I darn near completed Lv3 this week... & I doubled my score