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New Message Center Feedback

Tony 85 the Generous

Well-Known Member
It's a difference of definition then. To me, any unread message is new until it's read. But yeah, that makes sense if you don't see them that way.
Accoring to Inno's programming of the yellow dot indicator versus the highlighted envelope, this is how it is defined or the differentiation.
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
Accoring to Inno's programming of the yellow dot indicator versus the highlighted envelope, this is how it is defined or the differentiation.

I see. What you want is for the dot to go away once you have opened a tab. But if the dot is meant to represent unread messages, why would it go away if you haven't read them all? If the dot is meant to represent new messages, then either Inno agrees with me and considers all unread messages to be "new" until read... OR Inno agrees with you and considers unread messages to no longer be "new" after the tab has been accessed... and it's a bug. So, like I said... it's a definition thing. Because the way it works now, Inno appears to consider the dot to mean that you have unread messages, regardless of whether you've opened the tab or not. The blinking message center button says you have new messages since the last time you opened it while the dot says you have unread messages -- period. That makes sense to me because they are different. It's good to know that you still have unread messages waiting, in my opinion.
 
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Don’t care for it, but there truly isn’t anything I can do about it. The new is here to stay so there is no point in complaining about. We did have a situation yesterday where a leader deleted the entire set of swaps threads because he didn’t realize it would be deleting them from everyone. We got it fixed and did some research to discover the same happens with some but not all of the “titles” that can be assigned, I.e. leader, moderator, inviter, etc.
 

Papabear07

New Member
Are you on mobile? Someone else will have to explain this if so because I don't play mobile. But in the browser version, it is very clear which "inbox" you are in -- Guild/Social/Official -- and if you toggle a tag, the tag becomes white. Simply toggle it again and you are out of that filter. If it doesn't work that way on the mobile version, then I can understand the frustration.



Some of us would prefer that it open exactly where we left it. That's quicker for us. Just like how some people want their army management to remain showing the filters they choose, because that's quicker for them. Persistence is an efficiency thing. I wouldn't oppose a checkbox allowing/disallowing filter persistence or even a "reset" button such that, if you want to go back to the "main" view, you could just click that. Wouldn't mind that in any part of the game that employs a persistence element.



Like I said earlier, I can't speak for mobile, but in the browser it's already clear.

I use both mobile (iPhone) and PC. I’m glad it’s clear to you, but that doesn’t seem to be the case for all of us. Still not sure why there isn’t a label for the “Main” inbox in each of guild/social. Yes the toggle helps and let’s you know if you are in a separate folder but there should also be a main folder and/ or start in the main. Everything else spins off that. The lack of a label is confusing. Not sure why it was omitted. I’ve payed other Inno games like Grepolis So know they know how to make a good user friendly interface on both browser and mobile.

As I’ve already said, there are some great aspects to this update and I like that it is customizable. Just seems like adding a “main” inbox tag would be easy and help many users to more clearly identify what folder they are in.

Your comment that it is clear is your experience. I’m posting because it is not clear for me as originally posted and I’ve seen many players in multiple guilds struggle with basic navigation that could be made easier. Since many seem to like it to open where left off, then creating a “main” tab or folder would seem like the better option.
 
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Tony 85 the Generous

Well-Known Member
Inno appears to consider the dot to mean that you have unread messages, regardless of whether you've opened the tab or not. The blinking message center button says you have new messages since the last time you opened it while the dot says you have unread messages -- period. That makes sense to me because they are different.
I see you understand what I am saying and how it works (per Inno). That is exactly what I am describing.

Unread messages are unread and new messages are new messages since you last accessed the message center. That is the definition. MS Outlook, GMail, and Yahoo mail all work the same way (though I do try not to compare anything to MS products when I can help it).

I am proposing the dot act similar to the message center button but specific to the tab. I have threads that are more important than others. Ie., swap threads are important but only when I have fp I want to spend, otherwise I do not read them. I do not care whom swapped or when.

Just working to have the same understanding of the two features. You prefer the current display. That is fine.
 

Papabear07

New Member
I see. What you want is for the dot to go away once you have opened a tab. But if the dot is meant to represent unread messages, why would it go away if you haven't read them all? If the dot is meant to represent new messages, then either Inno agrees with me and considers all unread messages to be "new" until read... OR Inno agrees with you and considers unread messages to no longer be "new" after the tab has been accessed... and it's a bug. So, like I said... it's a definition thing. Because the way it works now, Inno appears to consider the dot to mean that you have unread messages, regardless of whether you've opened the tab or not. The blinking message center button says you have new messages since the last time you opened it while the dot says you have unread messages -- period. That makes sense to me because they are different. It's good to know that you still have unread messages waiting, in my opinion.
There is the option to mark all as read, another nice feature if you like to clean up your yellow dots and envelopes.
 

Freshmeboy

Well-Known Member
I don't like the fact you have to tip the container at an angle to get the last amount of liquid with your straw and it still leaves little bit at the bottom...the bottom of drink cups should be offset AND convex...
 

Tony 85 the Generous

Well-Known Member
There is the option to mark all as read, another nice feature if you like to clean up your yellow dots and envelopes.
My preferred indication of the yellow dot, means marking as read on both tabs every time I see the message envelope light up. That got old real fast. Also getting old is having to check both tabs to see which tab has the new message as indicated by the envelope. That's my way, not Salsuero's :D

Edit: New/modified suggestion.

1599502447575.png

Red for new messages (Guild has new message)
Yellow for unread messages (Social had new messages and was red, but since I clicked on it so now yellow to indicate unread messages)
 
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Salsuero

Well-Known Member
I’m posting because it is not clear for me as originally posted

Still? Even after this conversation? Because it seems to me that it only takes a few uses to figure it out and a lot of this game is "figuring it out" for some folks. For many others, it's "not a big deal". I dunno.

Since many seem to like it to open where left off, then creating a “main” tab or folder would seem like the better option.

Ok? Do you have statistics to provide Inno? Because I am fine with the way it is now and don't believe you've offered a "better" option -- simply a different one. It works fine... and you've presumably figured it out. I'm sure it took you all of a few minutes at most to do so.

There is the option to mark all as read, another nice feature if you like to clean up your yellow dots and envelopes.

Yes, there is. I don't need that option because the yellow dot doesn't bother me, but that's certainly something that would work for someone it does bother.
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
Unread messages are unread and new messages are new messages since you last accessed the message center.

That's an important distinction.

MS Outlook, GMail, and Yahoo mail all work the same way (though I do try not to compare anything to MS products when I can help it).

Ok, but I use programs that don't change until I actually open items. Thunderbird, for example, displays a "new message waiting" counter in my dock until I actually open (or mark as read) the items sitting in my inbox. If I don't actually do that, they will continue to show as "new" even if I've opened the inbox itself. Other apps also function this way... including many apps on my phone. So -- it's a matter of coding choice.

I am proposing the dot act similar to the message center button but specific to the tab.

I understand that. I would like it to stay the way it is now. So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

I have threads that are more important than others. Ie., swap threads are important but only when I have fp I want to spend, otherwise I do not read them. I do not care whom swapped or when.

I've marked these as "hidden" -- which leaves them available to me, but only when I choose to look at them... and never notifies me of updates. Love this feature!

You prefer the current display. That is fine.

Agreed.

Red for new messages (Guild has new message)
Yellow for unread messages (Social had new messages and was red, but since I clicked on it so now yellow to indicate unread messages)

I can get on board with color-coding them separately. Let no one say I am unwilling to compromise. :p
 

Yanshi

New Member
Only guild notifiers should be able to create new whole guild messages. Kind of defeats the purpose of having that guild notifier setting toggled or not.
Also message window should be scrollable, not clicking next page to see a new row of message threads.
That's all I would really want. Thanks.
 

boeffie

Member
I am getting used to the new message system, am in different guilds, and see different approaches, and am sure over time most will adjust to some system that works for them. I don't particularly like the actual visual side of the messages themselves, uses a lot of room, and the old layout was good.
But
Guild threads are updated automatically, overall a great plus;
Swaps can be hidden, instead of people having to leave them all the time if not interested.
Leader or Alliance threads can be in favorites in the Social tab, same with personal contacts you use a lot.
etc etc
Basically, we've gotten some folders, just adjust to them.

Only problem I have is with guild threads created without admins on it, so they can't be disabled or closed. I am thinking here of individual Sticks threads, welcoming threads, event threads, etc. Even the creator can't close them.
So if there is a possibility for creator + guild leaders to become automatic thread admins, on whatever guild thread that gets created, that would help a lot.
 

Papabear07

New Member
Still? Even after this conversation? Because it seems to me that it only takes a few uses to figure it out and a lot of this game is "figuring it out" for some folks. For many others, it's "not a big deal". I dunno.



Ok? Do you have statistics to provide Inno? Because I am fine with the way it is now and don't believe you've offered a "better" option -- simply a different one. It works fine... and you've presumably figured it out. I'm sure it took you all of a few minutes at most to do so.



Yes, there is. I don't need that option because the yellow dot doesn't bother me, but that's certainly something that would work for someone it does bother.

Salsuero, are you the gate keeper for Inno, because I've been told this is where communication should be provided to Inno for game improvements? You have one data point and I have another. Obviously your data point seems to be more important.

The comment about the Yellow dot was a response to another poster - but didn't help him. I didn't think you had a problem with the yellow dot.

It's not just about figuring out things - although obviously that is part of any new feature/benefit that any game offers. The current system offers a negative (no information highlighted) when in the main inbox. I don't have any data but I'm sure that most people would agree that a lack of any kind of marking in any system is less clear than providing a marker. What kind of data would you like? I'm simply a player making a suggestion - you personally don't seem to think my idea is a good one and I guess that is your right. But I don't feel that you have actually heard me and only seem to think its clear enough for you and that should be sufficient for everyone else.

I'm a slightly more than average player on the game - get on regularly but am not a hard core forum hound. I've only come on here to follow-up and continue the conversation. Sometimes it feels that big business doesn't listen to their consumers very well. Sometimes its because of a low level gate keeper who doesn't feel the consumer feed back is relevant. Such is life. I'll move on and Inno will have my opinion recorded here on the forum if they ever choose to look at it. I will of course deal with it one way or another but its too bad that another opinion has to be disregarded because it is different from yours. I feel fairly strongly of course that providing a simple tab for the "inbox" would be a simple solution and that it would actually provide more clarity. I believe there are quite a few players who would appreciate this additional guidance. You of course don't believe it necessary, do you also feel that it would be counter to some other aspect for you personally or is your job just to shoot down suggestions?
 

nsiebold

Member
As it stands right now, when a player creates a thread and posts a trade or two in it, and the second trade that was posted is taken, that trade offer is replaced with the words "The attached trade offer does not exist anymore". This is the text that is displayed when someone opens the Message Center. For the most part, that player will see that, assume there is nothing else in that thread, and pass right over it, not knowing that there is an additional trade posted in that thread that they may need. Therefore, I propose that when "The attached trade offer does not exist anymore" is the last post in a thread is displayed, that it be deleted, so that other trades can be seen upon the initial opening of the Message Center.

For example, when a player creates a new thread and posts three trades (A, B, and C, respectively), and when someone else opens the Message Center, they can see the thread title with the text "Attachment: Trade Offer" (C). When trade C is taken, the text "The attached trade offer does not exist anymore" is displayed, concealing the fact that there are two more trades (A and B) still available in that thread. Under my proposal, the post with the text "The attached trade offer does not exist anymore" would be automatically deleted and the displayed text would be of trade B.

Additionally, if trade B is taken first, the text for trade C would still be displayed until it has been taken. After that, the posts for trades C and B would be deleted, leaving the text for trade A displayed. Once trade A has been taken, no further deletions are necessary, as there are no more trade offers in that thread.

In my opinion, this would help players to get more trades fulfilled, because when I post a long list of trades, and someone takes the last one in the list, I have to repost the remaining trades to remind people that there are still other trades to be had. I have been getting around this somewhat by posting trades with a higher number of iterations after ones with lower iterations (i.e. posting one for 2x 10 Copper for 10 Gold after the one for 1x 10 Ebony for 10 Iron). That way if someone takes only one of the Copper for Gold trade's, the trade offer is still displayed under the thread title (I still have to repost when someone takes the remaining Copper for Gold trade, however).
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
Salsuero, are you the gate keeper for Inno

Yes. Ask a silly question, get a silly answer.

Obviously your data point seems to be more important.

More important to me, maybe.

I don't have any data but I'm sure that most people would agree

That's not scientific. That's just a guess... an assumption... a theory. Back it up or it's mostly irrelevant to say.

What kind of data would you like?

Relevant statistical data. I don't think you can provide it. But if you can, great. If not... I'd prefer that you stop making claims that can't be backed up.

I'm simply a player making a suggestion - you personally don't seem to think my idea is a good one and I guess that is your right.

I'm simply a player rejecting your suggestion - and yes, that is my "right" I suppose.

I don't feel that you have actually heard me and only seem to think its clear enough for you and that should be sufficient for everyone else.

This is a poor emotional response because I've responded to you very clearly. If I weren't "hearing" you, I would have no clear way to respond.

I'll move on and Inno will have my opinion recorded here on the forum if they ever choose to look at it.

Correct. They will also have mine.

its too bad that another opinion has to be disregarded because it is different from yours

Why? People disregard MANY of my opinions because they are of zero interest to those disregarding them. I'm offering my response to your feedback with feedback of my own. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean Inno will take my side in the matter. And just because you provide an opinion doesn't mean it can't be responded to and/or rejected by others. It sounds like you just want to leave your opinion and not have anyone disagree with it. That's fine, but that's not good feedback, because Inno would have no way of knowing if your suggestion is actually popular or not. Agreements and disagreements give them that valuable feedback. I may not respond in the best way, but my posts are just as relevant as yours.

I feel fairly strongly of course that providing a simple tab for the "inbox" would be a simple solution and that it would actually provide more clarity.

Point taken. Feedback left. I don't like it. Feedback left. We good?

I believe there are quite a few players who would appreciate this additional guidance.

Great! Get them to chime in here in support.

is your job just to shoot down suggestions?

Yes, that's my job. Like I said... ask a silly question, get a silly answer.
 

lemur

Well-Known Member
With the old system, non-administrator participants on a thread could see who the administrators are. That information appears to be hidden with the new system. Why? Is this simply a mistake by the developers, or is there a reason for this change?
 

DevaCat

Well-Known Member
Yes. Ask a silly question, get a silly answer.



More important to me, maybe.



That's not scientific. That's just a guess... an assumption... a theory. Back it up or it's mostly irrelevant to say.



Relevant statistical data. I don't think you can provide it. But if you can, great. If not... I'd prefer that you stop making claims that can't be backed up.



I'm simply a player rejecting your suggestion - and yes, that is my "right" I suppose.



This is a poor emotional response because I've responded to you very clearly. If I weren't "hearing" you, I would have no clear way to respond.



Correct. They will also have mine.



Why? People disregard MANY of my opinions because they are of zero interest to those disregarding them. I'm offering my response to your feedback with feedback of my own. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean Inno will take my side in the matter. And just because you provide an opinion doesn't mean it can't be responded to and/or rejected by others. It sounds like you just want to leave your opinion and not have anyone disagree with it. That's fine, but that's not good feedback, because Inno would have no way of knowing if your suggestion is actually popular or not. Agreements and disagreements give them that valuable feedback. I may not respond in the best way, but my posts are just as relevant as yours.



Point taken. Feedback left. I don't like it. Feedback left. We good?



Great! Get them to chime in here in support.



Yes, that's my job. Like I said... ask a silly question, get a silly answer.
It's a feedback thread for the message center, not for your feedback on other peoples feedback. We've gotten your opinions -- repeatedly. How about giving it a rest, please?
 

Papabear07

New Member
Yes. Ask a silly question, get a silly answer.



More important to me, maybe.



That's not scientific. That's just a guess... an assumption... a theory. Back it up or it's mostly irrelevant to say.



Relevant statistical data. I don't think you can provide it. But if you can, great. If not... I'd prefer that you stop making claims that can't be backed up.



I'm simply a player rejecting your suggestion - and yes, that is my "right" I suppose.



This is a poor emotional response because I've responded to you very clearly. If I weren't "hearing" you, I would have no clear way to respond.



Correct. They will also have mine.



Why? People disregard MANY of my opinions because they are of zero interest to those disregarding them. I'm offering my response to your feedback with feedback of my own. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean Inno will take my side in the matter. And just because you provide an opinion doesn't mean it can't be responded to and/or rejected by others. It sounds like you just want to leave your opinion and not have anyone disagree with it. That's fine, but that's not good feedback, because Inno would have no way of knowing if your suggestion is actually popular or not. Agreements and disagreements give them that valuable feedback. I may not respond in the best way, but my posts are just as relevant as yours.



Point taken. Feedback left. I don't like it. Feedback left. We good?



Great! Get them to chime in here in support.



Yes, that's my job. Like I said... ask a silly question, get a silly answer.

Thanks for the response, since this is your job - I'll continue sharing my thoughts on why I believe this is a good idea. Other than you don't like the idea I don't have any reason why you think an "inbox" wouldn't be helpful other than you don't think it is needed, or that you think I can figure it out whether there is a label for folder or tab I'm in or not.

First, I'll remind you why I started this discussion and then I'll provide you some data points and a further discussion on the use of data to back up a position. Yes, I can figure out what box I'm in and I understand how the folders and tabs work. They were initially more confusing than they needed to be but I did figure it out. After figuring out how they worked I apparently selected a sub-folder and didn't realize that I had. I missed a select event in my guild because I was bouncing back and forth between guild and social but didn't see the newly created topic.

In this particular case (one data point) - I knew how they worked but that wasn't sufficient. Why? maybe it's because I'm now have fewer years left in life than are behind me and my eye sight isn't as good as it used to be. This is not an ADA issue - but if a website is wanting to make it easier for people with slight vision impairment it would head in the direction of ADA approved websites.

I personally believe that I would have realized what folder I was in if it had been properly/clearly labeled instead of having no label. I also think it would have been helpful if when I went from one tab to the other it actually defaulted in the main folder again. This would certainly have prevented me from losing my way. But I also have read and understand others actually like it this way and I accept that there is a good reason for not continuing to pursue this part of the conversation.

Other than your personal belief that a label for the main inbox is unnecessary I'm not sure why this isn't a good idea. If Inno would like data I suppose they or someone could conduct a survey or try it with and without and see if people like it better or not. You are right, I don't have any official numbers to say that out 100 people surveyed 82 can more easily identify which folder they are in when it has a label vs a folder that doesn't have a label.

Since we don't have an official survey we can sight and I couldn't readily find a survey of comparable quality I apply the next available option - logic. Would a label allow me to more easily identify where I am. If I'm on a street and what to make sure I'm going the right way the first thing I look for is a street sign. If there is one I can know if I'm on the right road or not. If there is not, I have to guess. Or if there is partial information, I can deduce. Depending on the quantity and quality of information I can figure it out easily or with a some effort. Sometimes I get it right, sometimes I get it wrong.

When it come to playing the game, yes a very large part of the game is figuring things out and yes, that is in fact part of what makes the game interesting and fun. However. for me, figuring out how to properly navigate and communicate with my fellow players should be something that is easy and effortless. I've already indicated that as a whole I like the new message system and it would seem that Inno has been listening to players and working to make the message center easier to use and a place players can interact with each other as effortlessly as possible.

I still don't understand why Inno skipped providing a label for the main inbox in each of Guild or Social sections of the message center. What is your opinion on why it was skipped or why you don't feel it is needed? I've outlined the best I can why I believe it would be helpful. Is this an oversight? Or does Inno actually think it to somehow be unimportant part of user interface for some reason?
 
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