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Now that it's out, let's talk about a Wealth Tax

DeletedUser3

In this thread --- click here --- a long, drawn out discussion eventually returned to a point of National contention, referred to as a wealth tax. This was imposed, in a somewhat different form, in France and it exists in other countries. It's a tax based on assets, not the change in assets. There are more detailed descriptions and I encourage others to present them.

Anyhow, there it is. The Federal government is in debate about this particular potential change to taxation. What are your insights and opinions?

Please speak freely, within the framework of the Debate Hall rules and guidelines.
 

DeletedUser2501

The best example we have right now (in my opinion) to a wealth tax would be the yearly property tax on home owners, and the registration fees on vehicles. Both are "supposed" to be for specific purposes; utilities and road maintenance. It's a tax based on the value of your property. Big picture: The fear is that a wealth tax would apply to liquid assets like savings accounts and retirement funds, where the tax might "offset" a percentage of the "growth". My fear: Our tax system is still a little crazy with loopholes, exceptions etc., that a change like this would just make it worse. Local tax or federal, I think a wealth tax would end up being an additional tax, not a replacement. I don't think this would work for us.
 

DeletedUser2259

The problem isn’t the tax. It’s the government.
On the one hand we have the war mongering republican that if left unchecked will spend all of our wealth on world domination... Just Google wolfowitz cabal, a bunch of right wing crazy people who actually have a written doctoring of world domination. If left to them, we would never build bridges, or schools, we would spend all our money on bombs and bombers.
On the other hand we have the socialist Democratic Party, who believes that it is government’s job to control everything and want to create systems where sameness is the rule rather than equality. Bottom line they stand for big government for government. In their point of view everything should be so called “fair” according to their doctrine, not according to human inclinations of free markets. Fair, as long as they can exempt themselves from it. Crooks.
In the end both of them know just how to do one thing. Spend, Spend, Spend, and then... Ooops... We spent too much... lets figure out a new tax, a new way to reach a little deeper in peoples pockets.
Then they do what all politicians do. LIE.
Every one of them will tell you that they won’t tax the middle class... Every one of them aims squarely at the middle class with every tax increase. It’s simple; there is more money to be had by taking a little from every middle class person then by taking a lot from the few rich.
This could be made a lot better.
1) Take away congresses power to spend. Make everything a proposition voted by the people 1, man, 1 vote on the internet.
2) Move to a consumption tax. A national sales tax say 17%. Exempt food, energy, health care and housing. Tax everything else, extra tax on things like luxury cars, and other luxury items.
3) Have a 1 page income reconciliation return. If your income is below a threshold... (Say 50K) you get back a pre-calculated amount of the sales tax you paid or may have paid.
4) Add a small alternative minimum tax (say 3%) for incomes above say $500,000 Joint.
This way, the poor pay nothing, everyone else pays more the more they spend. The rich and the ones near becoming rich, pay a little extra.
Create a constitutional amendment that prohibits congress or any faction of the government from EVER increasing those set percentages. If they need more, figure out how to get the country to grow so there will be more.
Probably not the answer but just an idea.
Just taxing, will only lead to them spending that money too and then coming back around asking for another new tax.
Left unchecked government is ultimately corrupt.
Just look at NY State. They have the MTA a private train company. They didn’t have enough money, so NY made people who lived hundreds of miles away, and never used the train pay a special MTA tax.... It was struck down in the Supreme Court 2 year latter as unconstitutional... Do you think they gave the money back..... Na...
 
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DeletedUser

Taxing the wealthy while rewarding the poor for being poor by not taxing them anything does nothing but inspire the masses to become and/or remain poor. This current trend of forcing the wealthy to pay for everything that's being handed to the poor (spreading the wealth) is an evil system designed to make everyone (rich and poor) slaves of the government.

Everyone should be paying exactly the same amount of tax... period. If the only tax is an across the board 10% income tax, then the man that makes only $1,000 a month only has to pay $100 and the man that makes $1,000,000.00 has to pay $10,000. This truly is the only FAIR way to handle taxes. And there should be NO exemptions or loopholes.
 

DeletedUser

Taxing the wealthy while rewarding the poor for being poor by not taxing them anything does nothing but inspire the masses to become and/or remain poor.

Do you truly believe that statement? Really think about it. Think of a poor person, do you know any? You are saying that person wouldn't aspire to be anything more than poor if tax relief was applied so that instead of, say, foregoing heating during the winter months the person was allowed to stay warm or a mother could employ childcare to enable her to work. Just a couple of basic examples. To state tax relief would inspire the masses to become/or remain poor is a joke, right? If there are masses involved then even more reason to adjust finances to encourage upward mobility, what world leader would want masses of poor in their country?

This current trend of forcing the wealthy to pay for everything that's being handed to the poor (spreading the wealth) is an evil system to make everyone (rich and poor) slaves of the government.

Taxation is essential. Your statement is incorrect and simplistic as the wealthy are not being asked to pay for everything they are being asked to pay a larger percentage which they can well afford. It's not going to break their backs or kill their lifestyle. The money is not being handed to the poor, that is an incorrect and inflammatory statement. As to being slaves of the government we have representation and should use it to lobby and vote to ensure this doesn't happen.

As to your last paragraph if that is what you think then that is why you are not in government.
 

DeletedUser

Do you truly believe that statement? Really think about it. Think of a poor person, do you know any? You are saying that person wouldn't aspire to be anything more than poor if tax relief was applied so that instead of, say, foregoing heating during the winter months the person was allowed to stay warm or a mother could employ childcare to enable her to work. Just a couple of basic examples. To state tax relief would inspire the masses to become/or remain poor is a joke, right? If there are masses involved then even more reason to adjust finances to encourage upward mobility, what world leader would want masses of poor in their country?

Yes I truly believe that statement and it is no joke. When I was raising my 4 children as a divorced mother the government offered me all sorts of "incentives" to remain under its control. Food stamps, healthcare, housing, daycare, etc, etc. It all looked very nice but it all came with strings. I was even told that if I would just sign my parental rights over to the state, they would take my handicapped daughter into a facility here and give her all sorts of things I couldn't give her. When I refused to comply, the threats to take my daughter and even my other children away started coming in. Fortunately for my children they were born to a fighter.

This younger generation is being brainwashed into believing that those strings don't matter. They're being told don't worry that the gov can now tell you what you're allowed to feed your children. Don't worry that the gov can now tell you which schools you can send your children too. Don't worry that the gov can now tell you what you can and cannot do in your home or keep in your home. And don't worry that the gov can now tell you that you have to subject your children to medical testing that is inhumane. As long as the gov is using someone else's money to provide all these things for you and locking you up all snug and comfy in our care, you will live as the gov says and do what the gov says. I don't want a "world leader" controlling my life. I want people in government that actually work for and represent me. Look around.. open your eyes and see what's happening. It's all about control. And without all these extra taxes that they're extorting from the wealthy they'd never be able to get that control. It was just on the news this morning that more than 1/3 of the state of Rhode Island is now on food stamps. And if that gov program ends, businesses will fail that depend on them. The people and businesses should never depend on the government, it should depend on them... period.

Taxation is essential. Your statement is incorrect and simplistic as the wealthy are not being asked to pay for everything they are being asked to pay a larger percentage which they can well afford. It's not going to break their backs or kill their lifestyle. The money is not being handed to the poor, that is an incorrect and inflammatory statement. As to being slaves of the government we have representation and should use it to lobby and vote to ensure this doesn't happen.

You obviously have no clue what the difference is between correct and incorrect. The fact is the wealthiest 3% of the U.S. population does in fact pay more than half the taxes in this country. More than half of the population pays no taxes. That is NOT fair. This government, especially this administration would love for everyone to believe that making the wealthy pay more, and more, and more is fair. But the fact is, it's socialism and it only works until the wealthy run out of money. Then who's gonna pay that half of the taxes?

As to your last paragraph if that is what you think then that is why you are not in government.

What makes you think I'm not involved in government? Perhaps not at the federal level, but...
 

DeletedUser

Yes I truly believe that statement and it is no joke. When I was raising my 4 children as a divorced mother the government offered me all sorts of "incentives" to remain under its control. Food stamps, healthcare, housing, daycare, etc, etc. It all looked very nice but it all came with strings. I was even told that if I would just sign my parental rights over to the state, they would take my handicapped daughter into a facility here and give her all sorts of things I couldn't give her. When I refused to comply, the threats to take my daughter and even my other children away started coming in. Fortunately for my children they were born to a fighter.

You are saying that anyone who takes help offered by the state is under their control due to the strings imposed. Obviously the state wants to ensure welfare is being paid for the correct reasons. There is an argument that some "strings" are draconian, however, your statement supports my argument that anyone in their right mind would want to get off welfare as soon as possible and never go on it in the first place.

This younger generation is being brainwashed into believing that those strings don't matter. They're being told don't worry that the gov can now tell you what you're allowed to feed your children. Don't worry that the gov can now tell you which schools you can send your children too. Don't worry that the gov can now tell you what you can and cannot do in your home or keep in your home. And don't worry that the gov can now tell you that you have to subject your children to medical testing that is inhumane. As long as the gov is using someone else's money to provide all these things for you and locking you up all snug and comfy in our care, you will live as the gov says and do what the gov says. I don't want a "world leader" controlling my life. I want people in government that actually work for and represent me. Look around.. open your eyes and see what's happening. It's all about control. And without all these extra taxes that they're extorting from the wealthy they'd never be able to get that control. It was just on the news this morning that more than 1/3 of the state of Rhode Island is now on food stamps. And if that gov program ends, businesses will fail that depend on them. The people and businesses should never depend on the government, it should depend on them... period.

FOX News by any chance? I could argue that it is the wealthy meganopoly Corporations that run the government which is why gun control didn't get through despite well over half of the population of US wanting it but that's another subject. Morally bankrupt Banks and Corporations have run the world into the ground and governments that have allowed the rich to gamble with our lives, use and abuse nation states by ruining the economies are paying the price.


You obviously have no clue what the difference is between correct and incorrect. The fact is the wealthiest 3% of the U.S. population does in fact pay more than half the taxes in this country. More than half of the population pays no taxes. That is NOT fair. This government, especially this administration would love for everyone to believe that making the wealthy pay more, and more, and more is fair. But the fact is, it's socialism and it only works until the wealthy run out of money. Then who's gonna pay that half of the taxes?

Analysis using total tax per capita as a measure of tax burden on the citizens of a particular state can be misleading and misinterpreted. Different states use different approaches. When you make a statement like that you must back it up with something other than rhetoric. I would argue that if over half the population pays no taxes then the country is in a pretty fine mess and something drastic needs to be done to help those at the bottom make their way out of the mire so that they can start contributing and aim for a better life. You can be damn sure if they are just left with the economy being what it is with no jobs and little prospect bettering themselves it can only get worse.

What makes you think I'm not involved in government? Perhaps not at the federal level, but...

Then taxes pay your salary.
 

DeletedUser

You are saying that anyone who takes help offered by the state is under their control due to the strings imposed. Obviously the state wants to ensure welfare is being paid for the correct reasons. There is an argument that some "strings" are draconian, however, your statement supports my argument that anyone in their right mind would want to get off welfare as soon as possible and never go on it in the first place.

Your statement supports my argument that more and more people are accepting government control over their lives in exchange for the basic needs they should be providing for themselves and their families. And the fact is, they aren't in their right mind. That's why I said they've been brainwashed into thinking the way they do. You see the problem is that so many are so easily bought off. Why bother doing more for yourself when the nanny government will take care of all your basic needs?

FOX News by any chance? I could argue that it is the wealthy meganopoly Corporations that run the government which is why gun control didn't get through despite well over half of the population of US wanting it but that's another subject. Morally bankrupt Banks and Corporations have run the world into the ground and governments that have allowed the rich to gamble with our lives, use and abuse nation states by ruining the economies are paying the price.

Government mouthpiece MSNBC by any chance? You may be willing to trade one fictional evil (big bad corporations) for a very real evil (big bad government) but most of us aren't falling for it. If corporations damaged people it's because the people weren't watchful, not because the government didn't do its job. The government isn't your mother and the only thing it's supposed to protect you from is invasion, the very thing this current administration is supporting and supplying. And on that note, there is no way half the population of the US wants to give up their 2nd Amendment rights. NO WAY. That is a lie perpetrated by those who wish to take our weapons away so they can have even more control over us. If you'd study history 101 you'd find that every dictatorial government that's ever existed first took the right to bear arms away from its citizens. The founders of this country did not write that amendment into the Constitution to protect our right to shoot rabbits and battle wildlife. They wrote it to protect our right to always stand strong against any government or enemy agent without or within that thought he/she could rule over us. And right now, those who wish to rule over us are using tax money (because there's not enough taxes being paid) to buy extremely large stockpiles of ammunition for weapons intended for use against us.

Analysis using total tax per capita as a measure of tax burden on the citizens of a particular state can be misleading and misinterpreted. Different states use different approaches. When you make a statement like that you must back it up with something other than rhetoric. I would argue that if over half the population pays no taxes then the country is in a pretty fine mess and something drastic needs to be done to help those at the bottom make their way out of the mire so that they can start contributing and aim for a better life. You can be damn sure if they are just left with the economy being what it is with no jobs and little prospect bettering themselves it can only get worse.

First you claim "anyone in their right mind would want to get off welfare as soon as possible and never go on it in the first place" and now you're saying we need to help them with welfare? Do you often argue both sides of the coin or are you really just that confused about where you stand on this issue?
Then taxes pay your salary.
Nope.. wrong again.
 

DeletedUser

I brought the gun control element into the debate just to see your reaction. I am not surprised by it. We agree to disagree on all counts.
 

DeletedUser

I brought the gun control element into the debate just to see your reaction. I am not surprised by it. We agree to disagree on all counts.

You're kidding, right? That's all you have to say now?
 

DeletedUser

Absolutely, I can't deal with dogma. I try to weigh up evidence, such as it is, question everything that is put to me and then make my mind up with reason and proven facts, hopefully, and can admit when I am proven wrong. I can't argue a point with a pro-gun conspiracy theorist who stands for everything I am against with theory and belief systems that even a sledgehammer of reason couldn't dent.
 

DeletedUser3

(( please continue the gun control debate in a different thread, thanks ))
 
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