Oceanic Future - Part 6 Feedback

Konrad the mediocre

Well-Known Member
For what it's worth, the double collection can also work with wishing wells (and their counterparts). So while extremely slight odds, this is going to become the 3rd GB that can 'produce' diamonds, behind the Chateau (via quest rewards) and Seed Vault (directly).

Anyway, just going to repeat that, much like the Kraken, this GB isn't designed to be impactful until well beyond level 10. New GBs are no longer designed to scale well until level 10, then slowly afterward anymore. Inno caught on that GBs are very commonly levelled well past that point and have adjusted the bonus scaling accordingly. Myself, I don't consider the Kraken to start being worthwhile until around level 50 when the activation chance approaches 90%. At level 10 and only 32%, that's pretty bad. The Blue Galaxy is really no different.
Seed Vault is probably the GB that scales the worst. You have to level it to around 20 to double its production.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
Seed Vault is probably the GB that scales the worst. You have to level it to around 20 to double its production.
SV is actually the best one in terms of growth. Between levels 10 and 80, the % goes from 2.9 all the way to 12.5...an increase of about 330%. Over the same period, the Kraken only increases by about 200% and the Orangery by about 240%. Data is lacking for Atlantis and the Galaxy but they're both already shown to be lower than the growth of the Kraken so they'll definitely be worse than the SV as well. However, this is due in large part to the fact that the SV has a far lower overall activation chance, meaning even small gains translate into a larger percent increase.
 

Konrad the mediocre

Well-Known Member
SV is actually the best one in terms of growth. Between levels 10 and 80, the % goes from 2.9 all the way to 12.5...an increase of about 330%. Over the same period, the Kraken only increases by about 200% and the Orangery by about 240%. Data is lacking for Atlantis and the Galaxy but they're both already shown to be lower than the growth of the Kraken so they'll definitely be worse than the SV as well. However, this is due in large part to the fact that the SV has a far lower overall activation chance, meaning even small gains translate into a larger percent increase.
From levels 10 to 80 (arbitrary starting point) the Kraken goes from 8 fp/day to 64 at level 80 (800%) and AO goes from 10 to 80/day (800%). Or did you forget that?
 
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qaccy

Well-Known Member
From levels 10 to 80 (arbitrary starting point) the Kraken goes from 8 fp/day to 64 at level 80 (800%) and AO goes from 10 to 80/day (800%). Or did you forget that?
I didn't, it's just not really relevant because we're comparing the active bonuses.

But since you brought it up, the supply growth rate for the SV is better than the FP growth rate for the AO and Kraken as well...much better. Going from 50,600 to 670,170 at level 79 (couldn't look at a level 80) is a growth of about 1220%. But again, it's not really relevant to the discussion.
 

Konrad the mediocre

Well-Known Member
Serious;y, the supply boost? No one is building the SV for the supply boost. And I don't know about you but I compare GBs based on all their benefits.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
Serious;y, the supply boost? No one is building the SV for the supply boost. And I don't know about you but I compare GBs based on all their benefits.
You were the one who brought up the growth of the other bonus...so for the sake of comparison, I mentioned it. The perceived 'usefulness' of a GB's bonus has nothing to do with its rate of growth, and the SV beats all the other AF/OF GBs in terms of growth rate. Isn't that what we were talking about?
 

Konrad the mediocre

Well-Known Member
Really? At level 1 the SV produces (on average) the most refined goods of any building (aside from a level 10+ DT) and you built it for the supplies? My description only applies if you're in ME or later.

You were the one who brought up the growth of the other bonus...so for the sake of comparison, I mentioned it. The perceived 'usefulness' of a GB's bonus has nothing to do with its rate of growth, and the SV beats all the other AF/OF GBs in terms of growth rate. Isn't that what we were talking about?
Telling me that the SV scales better than AO or Kraken because its supplies boost scales better than the fp boost of the others while ignoring the lack of scaling in its primary production boost is disingenuous, IMO.
 
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ITown

Well-Known Member
SV is actually the best one in terms of growth. Between levels 10 and 80, the % goes from 2.9 all the way to 12.5...an increase of about 330%. Over the same period, the Kraken only increases by about 200% and the Orangery by about 240%. Data is lacking for Atlantis and the Galaxy but they're both already shown to be lower than the growth of the Kraken so they'll definitely be worse than the SV as well. However, this is due in large part to the fact that the SV has a far lower overall activation chance, meaning even small gains translate into a larger percent increase.
Of all the examples to pick, you somehow found some of the worst counterexamples. Why not just compare Seed Vault to St Basils? That GB only increases by 120% from 10 to 80.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
Telling me that the SV scales better than AO or Kraken because its supplies boost scales better than the fp boost of the others while ignoring the lack of scaling in its primary production boost is disingenuous, IMO.
So...now you're going back to the passive bonus, which I already pointed out grows faster with the SV than its 'peers'. Is your next post going to bring up the secondary production of these GBs again, which is also out-scaled by the SV?

Short version: SV scales the best of any AF and OF GB, in both of its bonuses. There's really nothing to debate about it, because you can see it easily in the numbers.

Going beyond that, it's actually one of the best-scaling GBs, period. What other GBs have a passive bonus that increases by 4.3x and a collection bonus that increases by 13.2x between the 10-80 range? I actually haven't checked each GB to verify, so you're welcome to go look and find one in order to give yourself something to prove me wrong on.
 

Konrad the mediocre

Well-Known Member
FIrst, why are you setting the starting point at level 10 rather than 1? Second, whether a bonus is active or passive is largely irrelevant. Anyway here are the numbers - I had to estimate AO and SV at level 80.

Levels 1/10/80
Kraken: 1 fp, 2 units / 8 fp, 3.8 units / 64 fp, 22.6 units

From 1 to 80 : 64x and 11x
From 10 to 80: 8x and 5.9x

AO: 2 fp, 4.87% / 10 fp, 6.98% / 80 fp, 23.7% (estimate)
From 1 to 80: 40x and 4.9x
From 10 to 80: 8x and 3.4x

SV: 2%, 21.4k supplies / 2.9%, 50.6k supplies / 12.5%, 700k supplies (guess)
From 1 to 80: 32x and 6.3x
From 10 to 80: 13.8x and 4.3x
 

Zatrikon

Active Member
Another way to tell that this age has gone on too long: We could build a Public Pool in the PostModern Era, but we can't build a Lifegaurd Tower until five ages later. How many people have drowned in all that time? Only in the far-distant Oceanic Future can we build a store that sells water wings and snorkels and scuba equipment. We sailed to the New World in the Colonial Age, but only in the Oceanic Future - nine ages later - can we build a Lighthouse.

Come on, Inno! Let's go to the moon, already! And give us the Lunar Age in one piece, not six separate parts! Take your time. Think it through. Figure out what you're doing first. Make sure it works and isn't overpowered or underpowered. Only then, do it. We will not be needing more than 4 different non-premium Residential Buildings, or Production Buildings, or Cultural Buildings. Nor will we need more than two Great Buildings. Nor more than 5 new military units.

Any ideas you have beyond this, save them for the Martian Age.
 

Orius Maximus

Well-Known Member
Have a better tech tree setup up. I'm nowhere near the end of the game, but I've looked ahead and both AF and OF are little more than a single straight line. I like the earlier ages better where there's more actual player choice as how to proceed through an age, does one focus on military, or domestic production? (IMO, HMA has the best setup of all). I also like the spots where a player doesn't have to research goods production to advance, or where there are dead ends on the tree; this lets smart players save some techs for later when, you know, events require them. Maybe put some crew members who aren't absolutely required on dead ends. And no avatars on the tree. Not only do people hate researching them, but there was never anything from preventing a new player from selecting up to AF avatars, nor was it problematic.
 

Zatrikon

Active Member
There really is no tech tree in this game. It's more of a tech vine - it has some branches here and there, but they all get woven back together into one long chain. Not much different from a single path - it's just about three paths braided together into one. Nothing tree-like about it.
 

Zatrikon

Active Member
I wish that I could permanently fire certain crewmen from my Oceanic Terminal (and Arctic Harbor). So they would never show up again as a selection. There are certain ones that I will never, ever, ever, ever want to hire. Unless, even after the exchange, I have to pick one to fill out the crew, because I wasn't given any of the decent ones to choose from (as happened just now).

"You're fired! You do massive damage to my ship! That costs me a lot to repair! I'm not going to hire you. Not today, not tomorrow, not next week. Stop showing up here!"