Please rework the calculation for ranking

[Algona]

My guild is the highest level on the server. We dominate GbG and GE every season. However, we are ranked #19? That makes NO SENSE.

It makes a lot of sense to me.

Since June 2020 your Guild has lost 25% of your Prestige.

If you were still at the June Prestige your Guild would be around 5th Ranked in your world. If I'm right about why your Guild lost that much Prestige, then maybe they were a top 3 Guild? Does your Guild have any time in the top 3?

Ask your Guild Leadership what happened last summer.

A prediction: Your Guild lost a lot of GvG Holdings. Prolly because some time last summer one or more key GvG players left the Guild or Guild Leadership gave up on GvG.

'Caise the only way a Guild could have gotten to lvl 94 is to have been around a long, long time and have had significant GvG holdings for a long, long time.

The only ways to lose thousands of Prestige is to lose big chunks of GvG holdings or to have dropped a long ways in GBG performance.

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Should INNO look at rebalancing Guild Ranking factors?

Hmmm. I don't quite like that question.

How about -

How is it good for the game for INNO to rebalance Guild Ranking Calculation?

Yeah, I like that question a lot more.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

How is it good for the game for INNO to rebalance Guild Ranking Calculation?

I like this question better also.

We can argue about what the proper % contribution GvG should have vs. GBG, but there is one aspect that is inarguable. If a guild is a top guild in both GBG and GvG, that guild should rank highest. Any ranking adjustments should always rank the guilds that top perform in all aspects of the game higher than those that guilds that top perform in only some areas of the game.

 

[Emberguard]

It really is semantics on whether or not FoE is a video game. It’s a game. It runs on a computer or mobile app. The better argument is what type/genre/category of video game rather then whether it’s a video game. How it’s described by Inno changes depending on where you look or what aspect you focus on. But it does boil down to simply being a Strategy game.

As to GvG, the entire point of GvG is ranking and level. If ranking is removed it’d need something to compensate for that. I wouldn’t mind if other parts of FoE had influence on ranking as well, just as long as GvGs ranking isn’t removed given the work required and current functionality

 

[Just An Observer]

In Oregon we have the Oregonian Cup, which is given to high schools for each classification that are at the top for all sports and academics. There you go, an overall ranking!

For each sport, the OSAA (the body which administers competition in Oregon) gives team and individual trophies with individual trophies depending on the sport. That would be akin to having a GvG, a GBG and a GE ranking to go with the already listed individual rankings one can bring up.

So if high school competition can be set up for a variety of recognition awards, why cannot the people at INNO figure it out?

 

[Sgt. Bothari]

My guild is the highest level on the server. We dominate GbG and GE every season.

Your saying just because you can excel at PART of the game you should be top dog, when other guilds show they can excel at all aspects of the game in unison, thus out performing your one trick pony show? LOL

 

[Emberguard]

Yeah. And if they're 19 that means they've only been beaten by a grand total of 18 guilds via GvG. That's a tiny amount given the number of guilds in the world

Thing is when you do GBG and GE you're not competing against everyone. You're competing against 6 or 7 opponents. Which means you could get the maximum score, but other guilds in your world could also have the exact same maximum score for GBG and GE (which doesn't even factor in). At which point the only two differentiating factors are Guild Level and GvG

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

Thing is when you do GBG and GE you're not competing against everyone.

And in GvG you aren't either. Even putting aside that only 5% of active players participate in it (according to InnoGames), over 70% of players are on mobile (again, according to InnoGames) and can't participate in it. Not to mention that if a guild has moved out of the landing zones, they're only competing against the very few guilds immediately adjacent to their sectors, maybe 3 or 4 at the most.

Your saying just because you can excel at PART of the game you should be top dog, when other guilds show they can excel at all aspects of the game in unison, thus out performing your one trick pony show? LOL

Most of the time I agree with viewpoints you share, but not this time. You have it completely backwards here. You know as well as I that if a guild concentrates solely on GvG they will be ranked higher than a guild of the same level that does everything but GvG. That is the exactly what you say should not be happening. GvG is "PART" of the game, not "all aspects of the game" as you imply.

 

[icarusethan]

Not to mention that if a guild has moved out of the landing zones, t

by how, can you liberate that?

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

by how, can you liberate that?

If you mean "elaborate" on that, sure. (Although you should know exactly what I mean.) Once a guild moves "inland" in GvG and gives up its landing zone sectors, it can only be attacked by guilds that hold sectors adjacent to theirs. Landing zone sectors can be attacked by anyone.

If you actually mean "liberate", then you'll have to explain what you're asking because that makes no sense.

 

[Aggressor]

My guild is the highest level on the server. We dominate GbG and GE every season. However, we are ranked #19? That makes NO SENSE.

Yes it does make sense. How do you suggest we do rankings if not thru GvG? Guild level? That's unfair, that would mean a new guild would have no shot at ever being #1. GE? That would be the opposite. A small guild with a perfect GE record would be ranked over a behemoth guild whose lost a few. Member points and GB levels? Youre not serious.

If GvG is such a dying part of FOE then when will this change? What, besides GvG can change this?

Nothing. GvG is a good, fair way to calculate ranking. Anybody can fight against anybody. Every tile you take makes a difference. No other feature of the game has this fair of a matchup. (and DONT tell me its unfair because not everybody plays on laptop, because if you cant go sit down on your laptop for 15 minutes and take some tiles, then you dont deserve a good ranking). It is perfectly fine that your guild isn't #1 because your guild hasnt put in the work.
And that leads me to my final point: GBG CANNOT decide the rankings at this point. Here's why:
-Its not any guild vs any guild, its 7 or 8 guilds vs each other.
-There is no daily recalculation for GBG. It happens every hour or every 14 days when GBG ends. Do we want a new #1 guild every hour? Or every weeks?
-It would ruin the farming game so many people love to play because the people who want to be #1 will ditch the checkerboard for their ranking.
-Going off of something like which guild has the most member battles also wouldnt work because then ranking would depend on which guilds can run the best grid, not which guild is the most powerful, and people would boycott their GBG season to deprive a guild of their rank.

In conclusion, the game is fine as it is. GBG and guild level get you all the way to top 30. Then GvG gets you the rest of the way. Seems fair to me.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

Nothing. GvG is a good, fair way to calculate ranking. Anybody can fight against anybody. Every tile you take makes a difference. No other feature of the game has this fair of a matchup. (and DONT tell me its unfair because not everybody plays on laptop, because if you cant go sit down on your laptop for 15 minutes and take some tiles, then you don't deserve a good ranking).

You like GvG, I get it. Do you realize how many FoE players don't have a computer or laptop? Almost no one I know under 30 does. Most have just a phone, some also a tablet. Will you now change your statement to,

"DON'T tell me its unfair because not everybody plays on laptop, because if you cant go buy a laptop to sit down and use for only 15 minutes a day and take some tiles, then you don't deserve a good ranking." How far do we take this game?

How about the issue of time zones? Yes, they're a thing. 8 pm Eastern is 5 pm Pacific. Are you suggesting those players in those time zones rearrange their work schedules,, commutes, time with family, to "sit down on their laptop for 15 minutes and take some tiles?" Put all that at risk, "for the guild?" That stupid game can go pretty far indeed.

Regardless of the reasons for only 5% participation in GvG, there's only 5% participation in GvG. The ranking formula was fine when GvG was the only game in town, but it's not the only game in town. Why shouldn't the weighting now reflect that? I think a reworking of the ranking formula to reflect the current state of affairs is in order. The current formula is outdated.

As for your reasons, they're just a bunch of nonsense trying to justify why GvG so disproportionately affects guild ranking at this stage of the game. It works in your guild's advantage. I get it. In a new weighting system that would still be true. I'd want that to be true. All other things being equal, any guild that does GvG should be ranked higher.

 

[Emberguard]

And in GvG you aren't either.

Sure, I can get what you’re saying there. The areas with more protection are only under fire by the opponents directly next to you. However once you’re on the map you don’t have to be next to a guild to be competing against them. Whoever takes the highest combined total worth of territory gets a bonus to their score, and you are in the end competing for the largest territories even if you’re not fighting someone directly. It’s in that manner that you’re in competition with everyone on a GvG map even if you don’t have to worry about everyone on the map

My point though was if you can‘t compete against the wider pool of guilds and there‘s a max cap on how high you can go then it makes perfect sense that a perfect score guild won’t be #1: because they’re not the only perfect score guild with that result. So anyone who got there first, or anyone with even 1 point more from any other source of points would be ranked higher

And that leads me to my final point: GBG CANNOT decide the rankings at this point. Here's why:
-Its not any guild vs any guild, its 7 or 8 guilds vs each other.

For GbG to have a higher impact on differentiating guilds in rankings there’d probably have to be a league above Diamond that handles things differently from all the leagues we’ve got currently.

It would ruin the farming game so many people love to play because the people who want to be #1 will ditch the checkerboard for their ranking.

I don’t see why it’d have to ruin the farming game if GBG determined rankings. The entire reason the farming checkers exists at all is that guilds already size each other up in the first hour of a season and know if the two top guilds went full force they’d both lose their rankings the next season because they’d have no treasury left. Checkers isn’t just for the current season. It’s a calculated move to save resources for every season that comes after it

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

Sure, I can get what you’re saying there. The areas with more protection are only under fire by the opponents directly next to you. However once you’re on the map you don’t have to be next to a guild to be competing against them. Whoever takes the highest combined total worth of territory gets a bonus to their score, and you are in the end competing for the largest territories even if you’re not fighting someone directly. It’s in that manner that you’re in competition with everyone on a GvG map even if you don’t have to worry about everyone on the map

Just did a quick survey of the FE map of GvG on 4 different worlds. Number of guilds holding territory ranged from 23 to 28. Number of guilds realistically in play for the top three spots was around 6 or 7 at most. And my previous GvG ventures have shown that it would be basically the same guilds holding territory on each of the maps in a particular world, and generally some combination of the same 5 or so holding the top 3 spots on all of them. In other words, in GvG you are also only really competing with at most 7 or 8 other guilds. And those 7 or 8 are only from the 5% of players that participate in GvG. All that is being asked for in this thread is that the rankings be updated to reflect the totality of the current game rather than the state of the game 6 or 7 years ago. There is absolutely no logical justification to have GvG be the sole determining factor in guild rankings.

And just to be clear, I absolutely do not care a whit about guild rankings. I do care about what's fair, though, and saying that GvG is in any way a reflection of a guild's worth in the current game is disingenuous at best.

 

[icarusethan]

Once a guild moves "inland" in GvG and gives up its landing zone sectors, it can only be attacked by guilds that hold sectors adjacent to theirs. Landing zone sectors can be attacked by anyone.

i guess you think someone can just seal the beach if they want to every day huh? i wish gvg is that easy

 

[Emberguard]

i guess you think someone can just seal the beach if they want to every day huh? i wish gvg is that easy

Yeah. system doesn’t allow it for the beginning beaches of each map

 

[Emberguard]

All that is being asked for in this thread is that the rankings be updated to reflect the totality of the current game rather than the state of the game 6 or 7 years ago. There is absolutely no logical justification to have GvG be the sole determining factor in guild rankings.

It’s already not the sole determining factor of rankings. It’s one of three factors. If that’s really what’s being asked then it’s already in the game.

What’s really being asked is to remove GvG from the equation or made redundant to ranking. Because it won’t matter what other things you add or change. If a guild can match you on everything that’s not GvG then the GvG score will increase it above yours even if it only counted for 1 single point

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

It’s already not the sole determining factor of rankings. It’s one of three factors. If that’s really what’s being asked then it’s already in the game

Pardon me, my bad. It's the sole determining factor in which guilds are ahead in the rankings. Although I thought that subtlety would be obvious from the context.

 

[Emberguard]

Pardon me, my bad. It's the sole determining factor in which guilds are ahead in the rankings. Although I thought that subtlety would be obvious from the context.

It’s misleading to say it’s the sole determining factor when it only gets you ahead if you first match on everything else. A guild that ignores GBG would first have to cover 18,000 prestige. A guild that isn’t a high level would have to cover that too. It’s more accurately the tie-breaker factor, not the sole factor

If GvG was truly the only determining factor on who gets ahead then their guild wouldn’t be #19. They’d likely be much lower. Just as for mobile only you can do good at GBG but be beat by guilds with a higher guild level, but you couldn’t ignore GBG and rely on level alone

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

It’s misleading to say it’s the sole determining factor when it only gets you ahead if you first match on everything else. A guild that ignores GBG would first have to cover 18,000 prestige. A guild that isn’t a high level would have to cover that too. It’s more accurately the tie-breaker factor, not the sole factor

Well, most top GvG guilds are Diamond GBG guilds, too. Simply because they have to have something to do in the 23 1/2 hours between GvG clashes, and they already have the capabilities and connections necessary to lock up GBG maps just like they do GvG ones. And it gives their mobile players (if they have any) something to do. The thing is, you won't find a top 10 guild that isn't a GvG guild. I've already found a Diamond league guild that is 81st on their world because they don't do GvG.

Quibbling over whether it's the "sole" factor or just the "major" factor is really beside the point, though. GBG can be participated in by 100% of players. Guild level can be raised by 100% of players. GE can be participated in by 100% of players. GvG can be participated in by only 30% of players, according to information shared by Inno, and less than 5% actually do. I've said this before, there is no logical reason that GvG should be equivalent to GBG in the guild rankings (Prestige) formula. And, really, there's no logical reason to completely exclude GE from being a factor, either.

 

[icarusethan]

Well, most top GvG guilds are Diamond GBG guilds, too. Simply because they have to have something to do in the 23 1/2 hours between GvG clashes, and they already have the capabilities and connections necessary to lock up GBG maps just like they do GvG ones. And it gives their mobile players (if they have any) something to do. The thing is, you won't find a top 10 guild that isn't a GvG guild. I've already found a Diamond league guild that is 81st on their world because they don't do GvG.

Quibbling over whether it's the "sole" factor or just the "major" factor is really beside the point, though. GBG can be participated in by 100% of players. Guild level can be raised by 100% of players. GE can be participated in by 100% of players. GvG can be participated in by only 30% of players, according to information shared by Inno, and less than 5% actually do. I've said this before, there is no logical reason that GvG should be equivalent to GBG in the guild rankings (Prestige) formula. And, really, there's no logical reason to completely exclude GE from being a factor, either.

nice job ignoring my question. So you saying most GVG guilds do GBG also and most GBG guilds don't do GVG, so why on earth those GBG solely guild should be ranked higher than those GVG guilds?