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Plundering and the Prisoner’s Dilemna

DeletedUser10415

Having two or three rogues in very specific defensive armies used on occasion can be effective, but in general rogues are useless for defense.
 

cbalto1927

Active Member
Yes, but you cant "beat" him.....plus why would you want to bother?

Are you talking about having a good enough defence to stop him winning that fight...........or are you talking about being able to beat HIS defending army?

Whichever way round it is............you still have higher troops than he has..........and you cant beat him in either scenario. And it hasnt anything to do with Rogues.
Rogues are useful as ATTACKING troops......

Lets say you get some rogues tomorrow.....how would that help you??

probably in both cases. I tried to come up a better defense against his attacking rouges. On the bright side the player account appears to be banned by INNOgames. Yesterday morning i found out his city is gone and only Late middle ages townhall and Tree of Love remains. I was shocked because all the GB's and watchfires he had was gone too. The hood merge came and went and had no change in the merge at least for me. I checked the rankings for towers, the player's name was removed also. Now i can maximized my goods productions once again. I.AM.UR.KING has fallen, Long Live the Empire :)
 

DeletedUser10517

probably in both cases. I tried to come up a better defense against his attacking rouges. On the bright side the player account appears to be banned by INNOgames. Yesterday morning i found out his city is gone and only Late middle ages townhall and Tree of Love remains. I was shocked because all the GB's and watchfires he had was gone too. The hood merge came and went and had no change in the merge at least for me. I checked the rankings for towers, the player's name was removed also. Now i can maximized my goods productions once again. I.AM.UR.KING has fallen, Long Live the Empire :)
Yes, we know as you have said on every thread.

But......there will be another guy like him that comes along before too long......and youll be back to complaining about someone else being on the game 24/7 and being unfair and having too many event buildings.....and using rogues as an unfair advantage.

As I asked previously.....even if you had rogues.......what difference would it have made to you? You were higher than he was. Your troops were already better than his. You already had a good defence..............and he still beat you.
 

DeletedUser24156

Unjustifiable Conclusion: It’s better for everybody if no one plunders. But since that ain’t gonna happen you should be plundering.

Dang. This is similar to a conclusion that real modern economists come up with in regards to war. However, they're a little more optimistic than you. They still believe they can convince society as a whole to simply stop all wars altogether by themselves. So tell me, what are your thoughts regarding real life war?
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
Crazy Gaston, that is a great question. And this particular forum is so the wrong place to ask it. Tavern is for fun stuff.

Try asking me in the Debate Hall Forum.
 

DeletedUser17558

Unjustifiable Conclusion: It’s better for everybody if no one plunders. But since that ain’t gonna happen you should be plundering.


My reply is: who cares what is better for everybody. It is better for ME if I plunder, so why wouldn't I do it?
 

DeletedUser24156

My reply is: who cares what is better for everybody. It is better for ME if I plunder, so why wouldn't I do it?

Because what is better for society as a whole can ultimately better you. For example, when you plunder someone's house, you gain whatever coins the house contains. If this house is lesser of value than the lowest value producing house in your city, then ultimately you got a worse deal than if the same person you plundered motivated one of your houses (doubling its production output). So you see, you would have been actually better off had you not plundered than had you actually did (in terms of earnings efficiency).

My personal opinion on plundering: I don't really care if it happens to me. I've got so much gold, I couldn't possibly spend it all. If someone else wants to plunder it, they can go ahead and take it.
 

DeletedUser10517

Because what is better for society as a whole can ultimately better you. For example, when you plunder someone's house, you gain whatever coins the house contains. If this house is lesser of value than the lowest value producing house in your city, then ultimately you got a worse deal than if the same person you plundered motivated one of your houses (doubling its production output). So you see, you would have been actually better off had you not plundered than had you actually did (in terms of earnings efficiency).

My personal opinion on plundering: I don't really care if it happens to me. I've got so much gold, I couldn't possibly spend it all. If someone else wants to plunder it, they can go ahead and take it.

Thats all fine and dandy, but the majority of plunderers want your goods.

If someone Aids my town, all I get is a Mo/Po on one of my buildings.......yippeee.....as you say, why do I need that if I have coins and supplies coming out of my ears?

But....attacking them...(which means they might not Aid me) I get Tower Points AND I can plunder AND the chance of a Blueprints. Tower Points = Medals = Expansions.

So no. If its a choice between Aid or no Aid, and for Aid I have to give up plunder rights.......then no, it isnt a better deal at all.
 

DeletedUser24156

Thats all fine and dandy, but the majority of plunderers want your goods.

Then are my plunderers going to be disappointed. :laugh:My goods production is on a 24 hour schedule, with the completion time set for a specific time I would almost always be at my computer to collect. It would be nearly impossible for them to actually collect goods from me. So for the most part, they just take my useless coins.

But....attacking them...(which means they might not Aid me) I get Tower Points AND I can plunder AND the chance of a Blueprints. Tower Points = Medals = Expansions.

I see, and indeed that is a good point. Though PVP medals have lost their luster with me ever since I got the Mad Scientist's Lab. I've been pumping out Medals 'round the clock. In a week, I can triple the amount I would normally win through the PVP tower.

Ultimately, I agree with plundering. To those complaining about plunderers, just set your goods production on a similar schedule to what I have. All they can take at that point is useless coins.
 

DeletedUser17558

Because what is better for society as a whole can ultimately better you. For example, when you plunder someone's house, you gain whatever coins the house contains. If this house is lesser of value than the lowest value producing house in your city, then ultimately you got a worse deal than if the same person you plundered motivated one of your houses (doubling its production output). So you see, you would have been actually better off had you not plundered than had you actually did (in terms of earnings efficiency).

My personal opinion on plundering: I don't really care if it happens to me. I've got so much gold, I couldn't possibly spend it all. If someone else wants to plunder it, they can go ahead and take it.


Then it is too bad that this game does not reflect society as a whole. In this game, if no one plundered then obviously things would get better for the plunderee, but that doesn't make it better as a whole. I can take Player A's goods by force, or trade with that person, in which case it may cost me an FP. I would also have to put up a bunch of goods buildings, which I don't normally do (I have some up right now for the new era, but they won't last longer than the tech tree). If I only aid someone, then I get 20 gold. Anything else I may get from that neighbor I can get cheaper and easier with guildmates and friends.

Also, if everyone plundered, then most people would still have to have goods buildings. You can't assume that because someone plunders they don't have a goods building. You may or may not break even depending on what you plundered and what got plundered from you.

I disagree that not plundering is better for FOE society. Of course there are more goods for me to take since not everyone plunders, but in this game, what happens in the rest of your hood has little to no effect on the other players. You can aid them or you can attack them (and plunder) or you can do nothing at all. Those are your options. I occasionally put a few FP into a hoodies GB if I think there is a chance I can poach some points, but otherwise my FP's stay in the guild.
 

DeletedUser24156

Then it is too bad that this game does not reflect society as a whole. In this game, if no one plundered then obviously things would get better for the plunderee, but that doesn't make it better as a whole. I can take Player A's goods by force, or trade with that person, in which case it may cost me an FP. I would also have to put up a bunch of goods buildings, which I don't normally do (I have some up right now for the new era, but they won't last longer than the tech tree). If I only aid someone, then I get 20 gold. Anything else I may get from that neighbor I can get cheaper and easier with guildmates and friends.

Also, if everyone plundered, then most people would still have to have goods buildings. You can't assume that because someone plunders they don't have a goods building. You may or may not break even depending on what you plundered and what got plundered from you.

I disagree that not plundering is better for FOE society. Of course there are more goods for me to take since not everyone plunders, but in this game, what happens in the rest of your hood has little to no effect on the other players. You can aid them or you can attack them (and plunder) or you can do nothing at all. Those are your options. I occasionally put a few FP into a hoodies GB if I think there is a chance I can poach some points, but otherwise my FP's stay in the guild.

So then what happens when you try to plunder people like me who have goods production on a strict 24 hour schedule? 99% of your attacks against me would end up fruitless. You'd have to try to figure out when the exact collection time occurs, which of course is highly unprobable. Therefore, plundering for goods is just as pointless as aiding someone.
 

DeletedUser10517

Then are my plunderers going to be disappointed. :laugh:My goods production is on a 24 hour schedule, with the completion time set for a specific time I would almost always be at my computer to collect. It would be nearly impossible for them to actually collect goods from me. So for the most part, they just take my useless coins.



I see, and indeed that is a good point. Though PVP medals have lost their luster with me ever since I got the Mad Scientist's Lab. I've been pumping out Medals 'round the clock. In a week, I can triple the amount I would normally win through the PVP tower.

Ultimately, I agree with plundering. To those complaining about plunderers, just set your goods production on a similar schedule to what I have. All they can take at that point is useless coins.

Good luck with that later down the line.
my next expansion costs something like 80,000 medals. With a Mad Scientist pumping out....lets call it 100 a day. its going to take an awful lot of days to get anywhere.
Even if it was 1000 a week, it would take over a year to get it LOL

Its ok if youre at the 500 medals an expansion stage......but once you get to 30,000.....you need more ways to get medals than just Mad Scientists and Deal Castles.

Towers = thousands per week. Add the GB donations into that, and it doesnt take as long to get them.

Mad scientist is best for forge points I think......3 a day is pretty good.

- - - Updated - - -

So then what happens when you try to plunder people like me who have goods production on a strict 24 hour schedule? 99% of your attacks against me would end up fruitless. You'd have to try to figure out when the exact collection time occurs, which of course is highly unprobable. Therefore, plundering for goods is just as pointless as aiding someone.

It isnt fruitless.
Every attack = Points. and points make medals.

There are two things to do with a neighbour......attack them or Aid them.

Aid = 20 coins and a chance at a BP.
Attack = Points in Towers (might be different towers all week, increasing chances of more medals) + chance of a BP from Plundering. + the plundered items be it forge points, guild power, coins, supplies, medals or goods.

If a plunderer gets goods its the icing on the cake.......if not, he still gets more than he would had he Aided.
 

DeletedUser17558

So then what happens when you try to plunder people like me who have goods production on a strict 24 hour schedule? 99% of your attacks against me would end up fruitless. You'd have to try to figure out when the exact collection time occurs, which of course is highly unprobable. Therefore, plundering for goods is just as pointless as aiding someone.

As stated so eloquently by Ruby, 0% of my attacks would be fruitless. You still contribute to my point total, you still contribute battle points to my tower which gets me medals which gets me expansions, and then there is the bonus opportunity to possibly get your goods if I am lucky. I get that rather than 20 gold and an aid from you (which I may still get anyway) that would probably be useless because of my full friends list and large guild. I may not get your goods, but I find that the most hatemail I get is from the player who is religious on collections and missed one day so I got something. Now they tell me how lucky I was to get anything and it won't happen again. No matter what, I am still better off attacking and trying to plunder you than mindlessly aiding you every day.
 

DeletedUser24156

As stated so eloquently by Ruby, 0% of my attacks would be fruitless. You still contribute to my point total, you still contribute battle points to my tower which gets me medals which gets me expansions, and then there is the bonus opportunity to possibly get your goods if I am lucky. I get that rather than 20 gold and an aid from you (which I may still get anyway) that would probably be useless because of my full friends list and large guild. I may not get your goods, but I find that the most hatemail I get is from the player who is religious on collections and missed one day so I got something. Now they tell me how lucky I was to get anything and it won't happen again. No matter what, I am still better off attacking and trying to plunder you than mindlessly aiding you every day.

Then you're not plundering. Plundering is attacking a person for the expressed goal of stealing their goods (as was defined by the OP). So if you're just attacking me for points, then you might not even use the "Plunder" action! That's what the OP was saying. Ultimately, plundering is inefficient.
 
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DeletedUser10517

Then you're not plundering. Plundering is attacking a person for the expressed goal of stealing their goods (as was defined by the OP). So if you're just attacking me for points, they you might not even use the "Plunder" action! That's what the OP was saying. Ultimately, plundering is inefficient.
No. Plundering is the taking of goods or other items from a neighbours town after a successful attack........Attacking someone doesnt = Plundering. Its a choice.

But, in order to plunder, one must attack first.
The Attack in itself gives more than an Aid does................as I said above.......the Plunder aspect is gravy....the icing on the cake, whether one gets goods or coins or whatever.

The OP also states........."Unjustifiable Conclusion: It’s better for everybody if no one plunders. But since that ain’t gonna happen you should be plundering"
 

DeletedUser17558

Then you're not plundering. Plundering is attacking a person for the expressed goal of stealing their goods (as was defined by the OP). So if you're just attacking me for points, they you might not even use the "Plunder" action! That's what the OP was saying. Ultimately, plundering is inefficient.



I don't understand how plundering is inefficient. As has been repeatedly stated, I get more out of attacking you (including the ability to plunder) than if I aided you, and I agree with that statement. The attacking is GOING to happen. If you are in my hood, and you have a defense I can get by, and you have stuff I want, I WILL attack you at some point. Once I get through your defense, if something comes up that I want, and I am on, I WILL plunder you. If I don't plunder you, that doesn't mean the attack was wasted. I still get other stuff above and beyond the 20 gold, the possibility of a reciprocal aid, and the goodwill I may get for aiding you. It is ALWAYS advantageous to attack someone, and that is made all the more justifiable if I am able to plunder ANYTHING, but especially goods.


I use plundering as my main method of goods collection. Which is more efficient: having 10 military buildings and attacking and plundering multiple hoodies daily, or putting up an 10 goods buildings? For simplicity, if I am doing daily productions I will get 200 goods a day of whatever I am producing. I can easily get more than that in one day by attacking and plundering. It is more time intensive, but I think the tradeoff is worth it. If you don't, then make your goods buildings, but I think the space is more versatile when it is used for military rather than goods.


In the long run I have collected more goods from my hoodies than I have ever produced.
 

DeletedUser13452

WoW...u guyz even argue about it over here, lol. I rarely check the tavern and I came looking for off game discussion.
 

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
Let me toss an ethical aspect into this discussion:
Does the player community consider a player that plunders non-good (coin or supplies) differently than someone who goes after goods?
 

DeletedUser17558

Let me toss an ethical aspect into this discussion:
Does the player community consider a player that plunders non-good (coin or supplies) differently than someone who goes after goods?


As someone who plunders, I don't. If I come by your city with an hour or two left and know I will never come by before the ability to plunder wears off, I will take something, even if the goods aren't available. I would think that most people who get plundered often would prefer pretty much anything but goods gets plundered, I know I would.
 

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
The reason I'd asked is that, on the world in which I tried my (pathetic) hand at PvP, there were a couple of players who, no matter what defense I tried, always managed to defeat me. Even if I had goods available to plunder, both of them hit only my lowest gold residence every time. I know that, in the quest chain that requires you to plunder a building of another player, that is exactly what I did, trying to cause the least damage to the other player as possible because this wasn't done by choice.
 
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