Proposal for Inno to Fix its Shit

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sloppyjoeslayer

Well-Known Member
I guess I just have lower expectations than Mucka. or simply have come to expect the expected in that I've played many online games for 20+ years and honestly don't see anything out of the norm here than that of other online games. One of the longest running games I played was WoW for 8 years, back when you had to pay $15 a month and more for every expansion and they have a much bigger staff and game warchest so to speak and experience and if you spend anytime on their forums it's the same thing, they still got things on there they haven't got to since 2004!:eek:

I also see forums and other sources of communication; Q & A, events, etc game companies provide as a privilege, most companies never provide such communications with their customers, lots of 1-800 numbers to India though.
 

Manda the first

Well-Known Member
I do not believe Inno has kept me up to speed with what is going on ... sending a player mod to the forum 4 hours after a complete crash to say Inno knows about the problem is not, to me, customer service. Panacea later getting on and saying they are sorry, without ever once explaining what happened and what has been done to fix the issue, to me, is not customer service. Addressing the flash issue with repeated statements to clear a cache and change my browser is not, to me, customer service.
That was a very well worded and eloquent explanation of how you feel and why, easily understood and respected regardless of what side of the fence you happen to fall on with this issue.

While the decision is of course ultimately left up to you on your decision to quit or not I would like to try to bring your attention to two things that may sway your mind a bit. I couldn't agree with you more that feeling like a valued customer to a company, and that you are being heard increases your loyalty more so than tokens. My 2 examples, though they both come from beta will hopefully show that they seem to be beginning to understand the divide between the nameless face "inno" and the customer has grown too deep and it is their lack of communication and responsiveness that is to blame:

1) https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/great-buildings-level-up-window.6953/ This is an announcement thread for a new feature in beta, while it's not the feature that is important it's the change in delivery where they talk about the Whys behind some of the decisions.
darkstar said:
We noticed that changes we make don't always get the reception we're aiming for here on Beta, and we think we can do better. We'd like to improve cooperation with you guys, and this type of post is one of the things we want to do. We'll explain some changes and our reasoning for some changes we've made to the Great Building level up screen, in the hopes that we can show you why we think it's cool and gather feedback about aspects that you think should still be improved.
I think this post and the effort behind it shows they are making steps in the right direction as far as communication goes.

2) Shortly after that they also implemented a new policy where their daily change log also gets it's own feedback thread
darkstar said:
Hey all,

Starting this week we'll be creating a designated thread where you can post feedback regarding the daily changelogs. Should you have any comments or suggestions regarding what is posted in the daily changelog, please let us know here.
And semi 3) but it was already mentioned: https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/facebook-q-a-february-9th.7035/ live facebook Q and A.

I know this doesn't fix everything you're talking about and maybe for you it may feel it's too little too late, but all of this was within the last 30 days. I think it shows they see the communication issue and are taking steps to bridge the gap.
 

Daisy the Benevolent

Active Member
LOL....Seriously.? FYI, they are in Germany and they get plenty of e-mails and it is not even that person reading their own e-mails. I am a former CEO of a Public Company and I know the procedure very well and what happens. Yes, some times this works, but here this might either get me a nice DO NOT do that again or some type of warning, but you want to try, GO FOR IT. Here are the TOP Board Members and their REAL e-mail addresses. If you think I have not e-mailed them before with ZERO results, then you might understand that I know the system better than you think. Again, go for it.

Hendrik.Klindworth@innogames.com - CEO, Eike.Klindworth@innogames.com - CCO, Michael.Zillmer@innogames.com - COO, Armin.Busen@innogames.com - CFO, Christian.Pern@innogames.com - CMO, Gerhard.Florin@innogames.com - Executive Chairman

Now for a response to my response as above, Jaelis, you know the truth and you know the real deal. Please.
Their canned response and go to phrase is clear your cache and change your browser. We all know this and like Mucka said, they can SPAM or POST up announcements on the front page, they could easily put up something saying how they are working on things. Again, you are missing the point here, the point is, THEY WOULD HAVE TO ADMIT they have an issue and they are way too arrogant to admit their is anything wrong with the game. I posted in bugs last week and many responded, did I ever get a mail from anyone about it, GUESS that answer, NO I didn't. NOT even a simple response about any of it. But it is OK, roads can disappear, cities can vanish, people can lose access (at the discretion of the game, which is well within it's right for custody of it) YET, once these things happen frustrations like Mucka has and so many more just get tired of it and quit. This is a FACT and everything I have stated before, you know you fight me over certain things and then in private you say different things as well. Not accusing you of anything, just saying BE FAIR and know being a Company Man ONLY gets you so far and lessons your own credibility. I like you and appreciate you being one who takes a lot of heat by people like myself, but the truth is the truth and even if you don't want to admit it this is NOW A TIME WHEN THE GAME IS FULLY (100%) WRONG and they should at least stand up for all of us players and just do what is right for all of us.

Or is that so hard of the game to do.? How about those effected, they give them 1 - 10 FP packs. FYI, I was NOT effected at that time, I was earlier and I do NOT want any FP Packs from them, give it to someone who really deserves it by being effected, as I was not. Still, the thought and a nice gesture does go a long way for the games players, or does the game even realize that WE ALL are the life blood of this game and without US, there is NO GAME. Sure, there is a game with NO ONE to play it, pure Capitalism at it's finest.

Steve - LordStevie

Disclaimer: No part of my above written or otherwise implied statement is improper and/or in violation of any and all rules or agreements as set forth by the rules, as provided to all of us players of said game. That said, the posting of proper names and e-mail addresses, are public in nature and in reality. As such, anyone with some free time and with a computer/internet (working browser with cleared cache) would be able to access INNO Games website and therefore be able to acquire said names and e-mail addresses as provided above. Again, this post DOES NOT violate any and all rules as set forth and provide within this forums.
Thanks LS! I didn't say it always works but it does work a good part of the time. I'm sorry I did not know you had already emailed management and I'm more sorry that they didn't respond. That said, my point was that if enough people write to them to formally complain (as opposed to complaining on here, which I doubt the senior managers ever see (even though in an interview with the CEO, he says he reads the forums every day) or complaining to support who has no power or authority to effect any change), they might begin listening and doing something about these issues.

As you know, this is a social media world and social media is a powerful "consumer complaint" vehicle. There have been books written about the importance of companies paying attention to consumer complaints lest they get lambasted on social media or consumer complaint sites. www.amazon.com/Satisfied-Customers-Three-Friends-Angry-ebook/dp/B001ANUOOS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1486690912&sr=8-1&keywords=satisfied+customers+tell+three+friends.

Inno's CEO got his MBA at Stanford so he is at least aware of this stuff. If he starts hearing from many players who all say similar things, it might compel him to make some changes. Sure, it might not but at least we, the players, know we tried and can then choose to vote with our wallets or not.

I'm not sure what you meant by "might get me a nice DO NOT do that again or some type of warning". I suggested that anyone who decides to write should be sure to be polite, respectful and professional. Why would that result in being chastised by the CEO? If you ran a consumer products company and that is how you treated your customers, I can tell you that you would be in the minority. I have worked as a senior brand marketing manager for 25 years, for 10 companies that ranged from the number 4 consumer goods company worldwide to a tiny baby food startup and I have had close interactions with many CEOs, COOs, CMOs, etc. throughout my career. Most of those managers take consumer complaints very seriously, especially when they see a large number of them about the same issues.

I also apologize if my post sounded patronizing to you. I had not intended it to be and certainly did not suggest that you don't know the system or the procedures for making complaints. I was simply trying to suggest to other players an alternate way to get their voices heard. If you already knew and/or had done what I suggested, great! Of course you know what to do since you were once a CEO yourself. You can just disregard my suggestion. My post was for those people who are equally frustrated but don't know what else they can do about it.

Anyway, have a lovely evening and I do hope as much as everyone else that Inno addresses some of the more serious issues sooner rather than later.
 

Daisy the Benevolent

Active Member
I'm a little confused by this. I've read through all the changelogs and there have been a lot of performance related fixes and improvements. "Lag" becomes a catch-all phrase so there are issues that can occur in GvG not directly related to GvG that get fixed that solve that particular issue.

jesus you people really can exaggerate. "vague reference" he directly says it lol. obscure? IT'S INNOS FACEBOOK PAGE LOL. It's not like I had to scoure the depths of the darkweb for months to find it, good grief.

Ah, so anything short of the CEO coming to your house with a tech team and going over the issue is clearly inno not addressing it, my god man.
Oh SJS, you are my idol ;)!
 

lemonwedgie

Well-Known Member
I'm wondering if people like you only use the internet for this game. How many times has it been down in the 5 years that you have been playing exactly? A several hour outage is not the end of the world. A several hour outage is 'whew crises adverted'. And for the last outage a portion of people, we don't know how large or small, were still able to play. In the time I have been playing my internet has been down for longer periods than this game has been down.
To ask that, you obviously have not been playing that long ... server outage is part of this game ... although I will agree that several hours isn't as bad as several days .... like the JSON (funny, its like "where were you when JFK was shot" in FoE we ask "Where were you when JSON appeared") ... As for some being able to play and some not - that is true, and rather unfair when it comes to GvG ... especially for those who spent diamonds only to be unable to defend their sectors against the one who were able to log on. I was actually able to log on, and my guild took sectors (and did not lose any) so don't for one minute think I am crying foul ...

You need to switch providers - my internet has been down once for longer than 20mins in 10yrs of my contract with them :)
 

jc821

Active Member
Proposal
Inno fixes its shit.

Current System (if applicable)
Inno's shit is broken.


Details
Unable to log in every other day, for long periods of time. Serious lag issues.

Abuse Prevention
If game actually worked, it might get played.

Visual Aids
Unknown - game is down so often, it is currently unknown if current visual effects actually work.

Conclusion
This is ridiculous.

I love this dude so much I created a forum account just so I could reply here. Well to be 100% honest i am bored atm, I was banned in g world for saying a bad word again. I know kids play here and I shouldn't do that but I am also a parent and very agitated at the mobile versions e12 rating. I wouldn’t expose my 12 year old to this game if it was the last game on earth. We all are a bunch of psycho adults being forced to chat as children so not to get banned and lose access to the game. On another note that reminds me why does one get banned for bad language in the game to begin with? Can’t you just time out and ban there chat. Each time I get banned I find myself questioning why I play this game and spend money to enable a company to take advantage of us. I have on many encounters seen inno mods and devs take over old accounts in this game and rename them and play them and often starting trouble. Is this their way to drum up new funds to start wars and get people to spend or what? Or is it another way to falsify there number of active unique accounts so they can create hey we hit 100mil users. If this game hit 100mil users not a single user would be able to login let alone be able to find 10million nuts dumb enough to volunteer their time to babysit us for the cost of a dinner out with the family worth of diamonds per month. Heck even sweat shops in china pay there people more than inno does.

Ok so I lost my train of thought and got off track so let’s try this again. I havbe played with mucka for 4 years and have been friends, enemies, reportMonkeys, and even idiot tavern jockies at times. So I can honestly say better than anyone having known all sides of mucka that his integrity and honesty is bar none in this game. This game doesn’t just have issues as he has pointed out they are self-infected ones to solve a small issue only to create a bigger one. Inno devs has done most of the damage here to bend to the whiners and cry babies who spend the time to come to forums and complain. They are the equivalent of American snowflake liberals. They want foe to be fair for everyone and demand that the faster more intelligent players get handicapped so they can compete alongside with equal footing. Now just like any liberal snowflake infested country falls when they take over so will foe. That’s not a opinion but a fact. Yes these no diamond buyers might make up the masses of the game but let me tell you they don’t pay the bills even with all innos hidden pixel tags and madID’s they use to scam another rbuck from us playing. By the way you want to opt out of that garbage visit their main supplier http://www.mediamath.com/privacy-policy/ go half down site and choose opt out to get out of that sleezy scheme(imo gmaemalware).

Now that said lets start by giving examples. When this game first came out it was developed by a great dev we shall leave him nameless to not offend and also because he is gone. They developed a cost of units per siege. They soon realized that the cost was too high for and slowed gvg down drastically. So they removed it and for years made the gvg game super exciting. It also create a ghosting problem that they made 10 updates to try to counter and yes this cost does block them but stops real guilds from being able to fight as well. So after they made this change and they saw the massive diamond revenue loss they came up with another brilliant idea of making some new attack gb’s like the AO, but soon realized that it was 2 powerful and many high end players could destroy the armies with it, but instead of correcting the horribly tested and thought out GB they decided to change the ai stats and behavior to counter it. There by making bonuses almost useless in many battles. They slipped this update in so no one would see and think we are to dumb to realize it but after fighting for over 4 years now and know the combos and stats like the back of my hand can tell you not only did they change it they broke it and in many cases the bonuses don’t even apply correctly. That is why people with over 120att and def can easily get beat in a ge battle with a 35% bonus and crappy units defending. That’s just 1 example and I can give you hundreds more after doing this for over 55k battles I do know what im talking about.

Second major inno glitch done on purpose to stop us super-fast Siegers they couldn’t figure out a way to make everyone play on a even lag speed as some were faster than others they decided to try to program in a 4sec delay but did so badly it actually crashes most players game when they siege. Not only that per battle this delay gets backed up so bad that the game freezes due to more poor coding losing its sync with the server. Don’t be fooled that the servers just suck and that’s why it does this it happens all times of the day even when no one is on and server lag just makes it worse at reset.

Third major issue is and has always been inno’s cheap way of running this game, and what triggered mucka to give up on this game. We all know for a very long time all worlds were on 1 server and innos idea of fixing lag was to create another world and thereby bringing more people to the game and server slowing it down even more. How many diamonds does one company have to sell to be considered a greedy evil corporation only looking at their bottom line? I mean seriously its ridiculous and is exactly what we have asked for years for them to fix. So last week inno decided to finally do something and in doing so broke the routing of the game that allowed some people in and others couldn’t. This was them changing their ip’s around to in my opinion now after playing after the change to give the appearance of additional servers because it didn’t fix crap. So as a IT consultant myself I can only conclude they either added more network interfaces to their 1 server or they did make 1 server per world however ignoring the database side that processes the data is still over loaded. Ge competition is a joke and no one in 1 world cares about the others in another so why wouldn’t they just separate each world to have its own servers for front end and back end processing. Why greed and because we the people who knows what’s going on never say anything because why give advice for something we don’t get anything back for in return.

Fourth we are not stupid and your little quizmaster pr stunt doesn’t fool anyone. You give out crap prizes for stupid questions to begin with.

Now I could go on for days and never stop typing but I will spare you all the details on what else is broke in this game and really pisses me off they don’t fix it. My first suggestion is force the devs to play the game with limited resources like 1 11k diamond pack per week and other accounts that play for totally free. Because the way you guys test if you even do it at all is about as worthless as this new snowflake everyone gets a trophy stupid achievement update. I mean seriously who the heck cares to show what you have done here as we don’t get anything but a stupid graphic to display in our city msg that no one reads now because its limited to 500 characters and I can’t even complain properly about inno in 500 characters.


Your friend and most spoken out banned friend,


( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ʝɕ™ ƤũṗṗŷḾoƞķễŷƁἇḇŷ
 

lemonwedgie

Well-Known Member
lmao off JC ... if it isn't enough that you spew all day long on global, when you're banned now you spew here. You are consistent if anything my friend! ;)
 

jc821

Active Member
lmao off JC ... if it isn't enough that you spew all day long on global, when you're banned now you spew here. You are consistent if anything my friend! ;)
oh hunny bunny its because the mods took my post rights away in support channel. I was trying to talk to someone to let my daemons out. I tried H world but they are so boring I almost fell asleep mid typing. So then i tried a hey lets get to know one anothe rpost in the mods support ticket system and they kicked me out and locked me out of support now. So I figured I spread my love in teh forums as I heard this is teh best place to let everyone know what you think.
 

jc821

Active Member
Oh and btw I will have you know I tried to apply to be a mod, but the application only has 3 characters space for how many times have you been banned. I created a ticket to see if they could up that 1 more digit so I could apply.
 
Let's address a few of JC's points:

1. "you were banned in g world for saying a bad word again" - let's emphasize "again." JC821 knows the rules. If he refuses to exercise self control, that's not an issue with Inno. That's an issue with - you guessed it, JC821! JC complains about "liberal snowflakes" but if he's taking the position of a conservative here, he needs to own his personal responsibility - and it is evident that he is not behaving in a responsible way, or he wouldn't be banned.

2. "we are all a bunch of psycho adults being forced to chat as children" - how about no, you're being held to the rules you agreed to when you created an account. If you don't like those rules and prefer a more adult environment where you can swear and rant, feel free to try another game. Inno's under no obligation to make this game a "safe space" for the "psycho adults" as you call them. Inno wants a game all people can play and increases the use of their product - "power players" with an attitude are not the mainstream of the market they want to capture.

3. JC821 and Mucka Smash's attitude is the exact thing that makes this game less hospitable to newcomers and all ages. They want to come on and claim high ground, but the fact is that people with their attitude have a view that their play accomplishments on a game make them worthy of special consideration on the part of the game developers and customer service - and an outsized role in the global chat community, including pushing the bounds of good taste and then complaining that they shouldn't be banned for it because it should be allowed. Well again, snowflakes, you knew the rules!

4. If anything, my issue with Innogames is not their overenforcement but in some cases, lack thereof. Global chat is often a cesspool of narcissists who think that the dominating factor of the chat day should be whatever particular political, social or anti-Inno spiel they wish to embark on that day, and repeat every day thereafter. It's lunacy to think that you get to come into Inno's house and take a dump on the company or employees. Regardless of your technical awareness or legitimacy of your concerns, the way you express them is hostile and irritating to others and not conducive to encouraging others to take you seriously, or desire to address your complaints with extra effort.

Inno doesn't provide a free product, open chat, or a forum for you to make it about YOU. Play nicely and recognize the limitations, or play elsewhere. Frankly, the absence of some of these obsessive complainers would make the game nicer for the rest of us who treat it like what it truly is - a game, a diversion and a pleasant way to spend some time.
 

Daisy the Benevolent

Active Member
Let's address a few of JC's points:

1. "you were banned in g world for saying a bad word again" - let's emphasize "again." JC821 knows the rules. If he refuses to exercise self control, that's not an issue with Inno. That's an issue with - you guessed it, JC821! JC complains about "liberal snowflakes" but if he's taking the position of a conservative here, he needs to own his personal responsibility - and it is evident that he is not behaving in a responsible way, or he wouldn't be banned.

2. "we are all a bunch of psycho adults being forced to chat as children" - how about no, you're being held to the rules you agreed to when you created an account. If you don't like those rules and prefer a more adult environment where you can swear and rant, feel free to try another game. Inno's under no obligation to make this game a "safe space" for the "psycho adults" as you call them. Inno wants a game all people can play and increases the use of their product - "power players" with an attitude are not the mainstream of the market they want to capture.

3. JC821 and Mucka Smash's attitude is the exact thing that makes this game less hospitable to newcomers and all ages. They want to come on and claim high ground, but the fact is that people with their attitude have a view that their play accomplishments on a game make them worthy of special consideration on the part of the game developers and customer service - and an outsized role in the global chat community, including pushing the bounds of good taste and then complaining that they shouldn't be banned for it because it should be allowed. Well again, snowflakes, you knew the rules!

4. If anything, my issue with Innogames is not their overenforcement but in some cases, lack thereof. Global chat is often a cesspool of narcissists who think that the dominating factor of the chat day should be whatever particular political, social or anti-Inno spiel they wish to embark on that day, and repeat every day thereafter. It's lunacy to think that you get to come into Inno's house and take a dump on the company or employees. Regardless of your technical awareness or legitimacy of your concerns, the way you express them is hostile and irritating to others and not conducive to encouraging others to take you seriously, or desire to address your complaints with extra effort.

Inno doesn't provide a free product, open chat, or a forum for you to make it about YOU. Play nicely and recognize the limitations, or play elsewhere. Frankly, the absence of some of these obsessive complainers would make the game nicer for the rest of us who treat it like what it truly is - a game, a diversion and a pleasant way to spend some time.
Applause!!! Well said!!
 

jc821

Active Member
That was a very well worded and eloquent explanation of how you feel and why, easily understood and respected regardless of what side of the fence you happen to fall on with this issue.

While the decision is of course ultimately left up to you on your decision to quit or not I would like to try to bring your attention to two things that may sway your mind a bit. I couldn't agree with you more that feeling like a valued customer to a company, and that you are being heard increases your loyalty more so than tokens. My 2 examples, though they both come from beta will hopefully show that they seem to be beginning to understand the divide between the nameless face "inno" and the customer has grown too deep and it is their lack of communication and responsiveness that is to blame:

1) https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/great-buildings-level-up-window.6953/ This is an announcement thread for a new feature in beta, while it's not the feature that is important it's the change in delivery where they talk about the Whys behind some of the decisions.

I think this post and the effort behind it shows they are making steps in the right direction as far as communication goes.

2) Shortly after that they also implemented a new policy where their daily change log also gets it's own feedback thread


And semi 3) but it was already mentioned: https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/facebook-q-a-february-9th.7035/ live facebook Q and A.

I know this doesn't fix everything you're talking about and maybe for you it may feel it's too little too late, but all of this was within the last 30 days. I think it shows they see the communication issue and are taking steps to bridge the gap.
Nice input here and had this been done 3 years ago then maybe just maybe I can say you know what your right lets see how this goes. Lets not forget what started this war with inno. IN beta the hardcore testers use to get paid with diamonds for bugs and use to get a godo chunk of diamonds to help test there game after each update. Inno started nixing this and pissed the real testers off. 1st they a=started claiming every glitch reported was not worthy of diamonds second when they came up with this new daily change log updates. Do not be fooled they started this so they could start squeeze updates in with out getting caught what they are doing and by not paying for our testing of there updates. THey still throw us a 500 diamond bone once a month but its really a joke. We enjoyed helping better the game and we use to have a voice. IN response all the big testers have quit and left. Now were left with no offence mods who have no clue even how to play the game or can even afford to play with diamonds and that's why they are mods. They have become the beta testers and the rest of us we either quit reporting or just get ignored when we do. Now inno can make up any excuse they want.
They broke the ai, gvg, sieging, stats on purpose to make battles harder to punish those of us who have either played a massive amount of time or spent a crap load to build up. Its a slap in the face and they are doing this because of the changes they made are costing them money and they know it. 8 months ago they were rolling in the money when gvg was so busy that every single player and guild was attacking one another. They didn't all quit because they got bored they quit because the new rules they made were to cater to a few whiners. Now I'm not saying the system was completely fair and totally agree in beta to try new things before going live however they did that and we complained and we saw first hand what it did to gvg in beta and they still went live.
Last and the most fair point of all. Each world has around what 50k players maybe 5% active and they cant afford to rent real servers for each world to handle the load is just amazing. I run a donor portal for a non profit that gets 50k users per year at best and have a minimum of 4 servers running it.
Its just amazing to see this company destroy this game every day and I and others continue to put money in this game expecting them to come around and fix it. As mucka pointed out after 4 long years of waiting and he just gave up and I don't blame him tbh I'm right behind him.


Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting the same result. Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different result. So by that I would say its insane for us to keep trying to explain to inno what's wrong. To quote mucka's best 1 liner "we can explain it to them but we can't make them understand it".

JC
 
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