Proposal for Inno to Fix its Shit

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lemonwedgie

Well-Known Member
Lemon's only mistake was taking any side with me (and she knows better, lol) because I play the biggest Richard on the world and its just my style of play.

JC
Yes you do ... and you know how you and I are ... and yet I still chose you over #whoamitoday ... doesn't that tell you something?
 

Daisy the Benevolent

Active Member
Nice input here and had this been done 3 years ago then maybe just maybe I can say you know what your right lets see how this goes. Lets not forget what started this war with inno. IN beta the hardcore testers use to get paid with diamonds for bugs and use to get a godo chunk of diamonds to help test there game after each update. Inno started nixing this and pissed the real testers off. 1st they a=started claiming every glitch reported was not worthy of diamonds second when they came up with this new daily change log updates. Do not be fooled they started this so they could start squeeze updates in with out getting caught what they are doing and by not paying for our testing of there updates. THey still throw us a 500 diamond bone once a month but its really a joke. We enjoyed helping better the game and we use to have a voice. IN response all the big testers have quit and left. Now were left with no offence mods who have no clue even how to play the game or can even afford to play with diamonds and that's why they are mods. They have become the beta testers and the rest of us we either quit reporting or just get ignored when we do. Now inno can make up any excuse they want.
They broke the ai, gvg, sieging, stats on purpose to make battles harder to punish those of us who have either played a massive amount of time or spent a crap load to build up. Its a slap in the face and they are doing this because of the changes they made are costing them money and they know it. 8 months ago they were rolling in the money when gvg was so busy that every single player and guild was attacking one another. They didn't all quit because they got bored they quit because the new rules they made were to cater to a few whiners. Now I'm not saying the system was completely fair and totally agree in beta to try new things before going live however they did that and we complained and we saw first hand what it did to gvg in beta and they still went live.
Last and the most fair point of all. Each world has around what 50k players maybe 5% active and they cant afford to rent real servers for each world to handle the load is just amazing. I run a donor portal for a non profit that gets 50k users per year at best and have a minimum of 4 servers running it.
Its just amazing to see this company destroy this game every day and I and others continue to put money in this game expecting them to come around and fix it. As mucka pointed out after 4 long years of waiting and he just gave up and I don't blame him tbh I'm right behind him.


Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting the same result. Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different result. So by that I would say its insane for us to keep trying to explain to inno what's wrong. To quote mucka's best 1 liner "we can explain it to them but we can't make them understand it".

JC
Just a couple of comments re: your post:

1) I have ADHD and am still able to organize my thoughts and write in complete sentences and paragraphs. Please don't lump people with ADHD together as if none of us are able to write or speak properly.

2) Inno's business is not suffering yet. In 2015, their year over year sales were up 25% and mobile game sales doubled. In 2015, Inno hit $100MM Euro in sales. https://press.innogames.com/innogames-hits-100-million-euros-in-2015-grows-mobile-100.

Yes, this is aggravating bc they clearly have the money to improve FoE, however, in your post, you claim the issues with the game are costing them money. It may be costing them money from long-term players, however, it seems they are more than making up for those losses from players on mobile (even though the mobile version is a red-haired stepchild of the browser version as it is missing many key features). Inno has forecasted continued growth for 2016 (their financials are not out yet). According to Inno, 60% of FoE players are playing on mobile (at least some of the time) and earlier this year, Inno ran a huge ad campaign to attract more mobile users. This article also says that Inno has over 150MM players across all their games, Tribal Wars 1 & 2, Grepolis, Elvenar and FoE. I'd bet that at least 40% of those 150MM are playing FoE (my reasoning is that there is no mobile version of Elvenar and if you look at the number of reviews in the Apple App store, FoE reviews are more than three times those for any of the other games). In short, Inno is not hurting for money and this is probably why they choose to ignore player complaints. It may be cheaper for them to run marketing campaigns and get new players than it would be for them to completely overhaul the game.

3) I am not sure where you came up with the 50K and 5% figures. If Inno has 150MM users and 40% are playing FoE (this is a SWAG), that would mean that 60MM people are playing FoE. Even if you believe that only 5-10% of that number are active (and I'd bet it is much higher than that), that still means about 3-6MM people are actively playing. I know next to nothing about server capabilities but that seems like a big number to be able to house it all on one server. When the game went down, Grepolis and Elvenar also went down (don't know about Tribal Wars). This means that, in fact, Inno's servers are hosting a sizeable portion of their 150MM users.

4) Finally, you said Mucka, you and other avid players have been complaining for the past 4 years about all these changes that Inno has made. FoE was only launched in April 2012. It sounds like everyone was happy when it launched, beta testers were rewarded, etc. I find it difficult to believe that Inno then decided to implement a bunch of changes that negatively impacted the game and the players within a year of launch. This is the timeline you are suggesting since FoE will have only been in existence for 5 years this April. It sounds like the changes they made that really upset players were about 8-16 months ago, not 4 years ago. I also don't know of anyone who would continue to play a game that was completely ticking them off for 4 years.

While I understand your overall point and your passion for your argument, the huge exaggerations and lack of real facts will only make people disregard your opinion. Just like a lot of folks on the forums, I, too, can get caught up in the "Why the he!! won't Inno listen?" threads but I think we all need to take a deep breath, step back and remember this is just a game. If a game is causing you anger and stress from playing it, perhaps it is time to move on to something that will be more enjoyable.
 

jc821

Active Member
Just a couple of comments re: your post:

1) I have ADHD and am still able to organize my thoughts and write in complete sentences and paragraphs. Please don't lump people with ADHD together as if none of us are able to write or speak properly.

2) Inno's business is not suffering yet. In 2015, their year over year sales were up 25% and mobile game sales doubled. In 2015, Inno hit $100MM Euro in sales. https://press.innogames.com/innogames-hits-100-million-euros-in-2015-grows-mobile-100.

Yes, this is aggravating bc they clearly have the money to improve FoE, however, in your post, you claim the issues with the game are costing them money. It may be costing them money from long-term players, however, it seems they are more than making up for those losses from players on mobile (even though the mobile version is a red-haired stepchild of the browser version as it is missing many key features). Inno has forecasted continued growth for 2016 (their financials are not out yet). According to Inno, 60% of FoE players are playing on mobile (at least some of the time) and earlier this year, Inno ran a huge ad campaign to attract more mobile users. This article also says that Inno has over 150MM players across all their games, Tribal Wars 1 & 2, Grepolis, Elvenar and FoE. I'd bet that at least 40% of those 150MM are playing FoE (my reasoning is that there is no mobile version of Elvenar and if you look at the number of reviews in the Apple App store, FoE reviews are more than three times those for any of the other games). In short, Inno is not hurting for money and this is probably why they choose to ignore player complaints. It may be cheaper for them to run marketing campaigns and get new players than it would be for them to completely overhaul the game.

3) I am not sure where you came up with the 50K and 5% figures. If Inno has 150MM users and 40% are playing FoE (this is a SWAG), that would mean that 60MM people are playing FoE. Even if you believe that only 5-10% of that number are active (and I'd bet it is much higher than that), that still means about 3-6MM people are actively playing. I know next to nothing about server capabilities but that seems like a big number to be able to house it all on one server. When the game went down, Grepolis and Elvenar also went down (don't know about Tribal Wars). This means that, in fact, Inno's servers are hosting a sizeable portion of their 150MM users.

4) Finally, you said Mucka, you and other avid players have been complaining for the past 4 years about all these changes that Inno has made. FoE was only launched in April 2012. It sounds like everyone was happy when it launched, beta testers were rewarded, etc. I find it difficult to believe that Inno then decided to implement a bunch of changes that negatively impacted the game and the players within a year of launch. This is the timeline you are suggesting since FoE will have only been in existence for 5 years this April. It sounds like the changes they made that really upset players were about 8-16 months ago, not 4 years ago. I also don't know of anyone who would continue to play a game that was completely ticking them off for 4 years.

While I understand your overall point and your passion for your argument, the huge exaggerations and lack of real facts will only make people disregard your opinion. Just like a lot of folks on the forums, I, too, can get caught up in the "Why the he!! won't Inno listen?" threads but I think we all need to take a deep breath, step back and remember this is just a game. If a game is causing you anger and stress from playing it, perhaps it is time to move on to something that will be more enjoyable.
Well said and as I do not agree I wont say much here.

1. The numbers you are quoting are from pressers and it only proves my point they are fake numbers at least in number of users. Anyone can look up how many players are there by checking the player list. Most servers run around the 50k mark and yes is very exaggerated; however, stating 5 % active is pretty reasonable because most players come last a few days get bored and move on. That said there is a actual site collecting data and A server is the oldest server here and based on numbers that I'm quoting from a unknown source so I can't speak to its validity only has around 5500 active players and of that only half did 1 battle in the last 24hrs. foedb.com So lets assume all servers are somewhere close to these numbers and there are only 23 worlds its safe to assume were only talking about at best 125k players and then take from that the fact we have some real hard core players who play on at least 5 or more servers would bring us closer to around 25k active players. So sure please drink the coolaid and assume foe has millions of users. Even if you take all the countries combined and add them up they don't reach even a million I bet. So to quote me numbers from a company who has spent more time on graphics for this game then they have for the underlying infrastructure just shows me your lack of knowledge to even reply to my comments are not justified. I'm sorry to sound coldhearted but just because you can write with good grammar and in nicely worded and coherent sentences while struggling with your adhd does not make your context any better then my thrown together rant that took me less then a minute to write.

2. Further more to claim a higher ground you should know what your talking about when responding to someone's comment. It was a obvious joke and the fact you spent so long writing this response to inform me of you superior intellect just shows me how special you are. "ADHD is not a disorder of knowing what to do but of doing what one knows". Now its not that I cant spell, use proper grammar, make coherent sentences or paragraphs the root of my issue its that I do not care to use any of it when speaking to a bunch of people in all honesty I feel are inferior to my own intellect. So next time you want to bash someone for saying a joke about their own disorder make sure you fully understand it yourself. For you I would suggest you read up on the Barkley's model of ADHD and maybe just maybe you might get my joke.

3. Now for the technical details that to be honest I didn't share not because I'm making it up but only that I don't think anyone would understand what I was talking about. Just a few months ago the entire us foe world's were all hosted by 1 ip address. Last week they made some changes and now each world has its own ip and which I would totally be thrilled about if it actually fixed the issue. Sadly it has not so it tells me either they just added virtual network interfaces to the host or they did split each server into its own web front end most likely hosted on the same host. So based on the new performance I think they just separated the ip's out for each published web site hosted on the one host. Why did they do this? Well its very possible they did it because I blasted them for past month on every single chat room I could find about how pathetic the system runs when many of us have paid to play here. They do use a cdn service hosted out west though to deliver up there special pretty graphics they spend so much time on because heaven forbid those don't work right as to most players here if it looks cool then it must be cool. Why didn't they pay this company to host all the content? So forgive me if like innos games graphics don't impress me your nicely worded reply didn't impress me either. But I would bet half the snowflakes(my term for inno noobs) who read this probably thought you was very knowledgeable. Also last week was a network issue its why some could get in and others could not. They made a major change and in doing it they broke the routing if I had to guess what it was based on my own experience as this is what I do for a living.

4. Last and not least and to the only part I will give you credit for, yes I was speaking about the more recent lag issues, but also to the long complaints we have had about the system as a whole for years. This is due to the fact it takes us nearly six months to a year to get them to do anything and the current issues were not the first nor will they be the last. Its been a ongoing struggle for many of us who have a passion for the game and feel attached to it by the amount of time or money we spent on a game that we do love. If you play this game and you look at the top 100 players they all have done this so do not say you do not know anyone. Many of us have been hoping and wishing for the major issues to be resolved for a very long time maybe not 4yrs for everyone but I personally have been. For a lot of us each time we see one of these new ads or commercials trying to find new suckers a small part of our passion dies with it. That is what happen to mucka and its what's happening to each of us day by day. My bull headed and addictive personality has kept me going for this long but its not too much longer and I will depart as well. For my final point and also what really pissed mucka off is the lack of respect inno showed by not even acknowledging there was a issue after it was fixed.

As to the way I am and why I write the way I do I say only this I just don't really care what anyone thinks about me. I like to say what's on my mind and if I had to slow down to form my rants in nice little powder-puff pieces I would most likely never send it, and almost deleted this whole reply just because I got bored explaining. My mind runs like a locomotive with one speed and no brakes so you either hop on with it or get out of my way.

With All my love to all my snowflakes,

JC
 
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ITown

Well-Known Member
4) Finally, you said Mucka, you and other avid players have been complaining for the past 4 years about all these changes that Inno has made. FoE was only launched in April 2012. It sounds like everyone was happy when it launched, beta testers were rewarded, etc. I find it difficult to believe that Inno then decided to implement a bunch of changes that negatively impacted the game and the players within a year of launch. This is the timeline you are suggesting since FoE will have only been in existence for 5 years this April. It sounds like the changes they made that really upset players were about 8-16 months ago, not 4 years ago. I also don't know of anyone who would continue to play a game that was completely ticking them off for 4 years.
I started playing in May of 2012, and no. Everyone was not happy with the game when it launched. Most of the players who were playing then have quit because the game was riddled with bugs, was frustrating to play, and got stale after a short period of time.

When I started you had to click each building individually to collect. Your neighborhood on day 1 was static. There was no friends list, and no guild. In fact, the only way you could trade with anybody was to get lucky with neighbors and have one who actually played the game past iron age and had different boosts. Otherwise, you had to produce all 5 types of goods yourself. And best of all, once you reached the end of tech (Late Middle Ages) there was absolutely nothing to do besides collect and attack neighbors. There wasn't even a way to spend FPs.

FoE didn't start to resemble the game as it is today until the beginning of 2014, when GvG was released.

People love to complain about the game, but in my experience, as veteran players leave, new ones come along to replace them.

Quitting the game changes very little. I've seen dozens of friends and forum posters quit over time, but it makes no difference. Inno will carry on. Because as much as some people dislike many changes, new players don't care. New players don't remember how things used to be, nor feel the effects - after all, they have never known any different.

Case in point - even though many people are upset with the weakened rail gun, I don't ever see people complain bitterly about the weakened archer (they used to have 11 attack and 6 range).

I guess what I'm trying to say is - people tend to think highly of this game when it is new to them, but over time, as Inno makes changes, they all seem to think of some previous time as the "golden days".

In all honesty, I think the game is in a better place now than it was 6 months ago. And 6 months ago it was better than it was 12 months ago. 12 months ago it was better than it was 18 months ago. I periodically disagree with changes that are made (I think they went overboard on well-deserved nerfs to rail guns), but as a whole, I believe the game has been on the right track all along.
 

sloppyjoeslayer

Well-Known Member
Third major issue is and has always been inno’s cheap way of running this game, and what triggered mucka to give up on this game. We all know for a very long time all worlds were on 1 server and innos idea of fixing lag was to create another world and thereby bringing more people to the game and server slowing it down even more. How many diamonds does one company have to sell to be considered a greedy evil corporation only looking at their bottom line? I mean seriously its ridiculous and is exactly what we have asked for years for them to fix. So last week inno decided to finally do something and in doing so broke the routing of the game that allowed some people in and others couldn’t. This was them changing their ip’s around to in my opinion now after playing after the change to give the appearance of additional servers because it didn’t fix crap. So as a IT consultant myself I can only conclude they either added more network interfaces to their 1 server or they did make 1 server per world however ignoring the database side that processes the data is still over loaded.
I'm no expert on this stuff, when you say server do you mean data center? Inno has one US data center in Florida as far as I know and who knows how many servers there but I doubt it's only one Server Upgrade.

https://www.vaultnetworks.com/september-4-2013-vault-networks-hosting-cloud-servers-for-german-gaming-giant/
 
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sloppyjoeslayer

Well-Known Member
I'm surprised this hasn't come up, perhaps some problems could also be explained by this...

“We believe that most DDoS attacks against our infrastructure are actually being perpetrated by our players themselves,” explained Raimund Schlichtiger, Head of System Administration. “Due to the highly competitive nature of our games, players seek to gain an advantage any way they can. By DDoSing the game at a certain time, players try to block their rivals from responding to a move within a given window of time.” In terms of impact, a targeted 5-minute DDoS attack against two of its more competitive games, without proper mitigation, would affect 100,000 players."
https://www.incapsula.com/resources/case-studies/innogames-case-study.html
 

jc821

Active Member
I'm no expert on this stuff, when you say server do you mean data center? Inno has one US data center in Florida as far as I know and who knows how many servers there but I doubt it's only one Server Upgrade.
A server is a physical computer, but a host server can host many sites on one server. This is how hosting sites work and yes their servers are in miami florida at a hosting site. Based on this game runs and how bad the lag has been getting with each new world I can only assume based on my own knowledge as a IT consultant that these worlds are hosted on a single server, and your link shows something I have said all along that there is only 1 application server. Most likely its a database server of some sort to host the data for the players and may or may not be the actual processing host of the game. Either way as a IT consultant who has been doing this for many years I am insulted by the lack of resources they have devoted to this game to handle the load considering some of us have spent a lot of money and time here. This game was not designed to scale based on what I have seen. Most sites can operate fine with a many site to one host configuration; however, this is a time sensitive game where players compete and do so at a very fast pace. GVG is most likely innos first experience with a application that runs and real time and doesn't understand the resources it takes to deliver the game experience when scaled out. Example of this is they use the beta server a lot, but yet its not a good place to test these types of performance issues because the load isn't the same. If they shut down every single world right now and only left A world up I'm willing to bet the resources they have in place would run the game fine with little to no lag. Its in my opinion each world they create is only hurting the game by creating more lag. Again I should state fully that these are assumptions made by my own knowledge and by guessing on how the system runs. I doubt I am wrong or at least far off from how its setup. However if I am wrong in how its setup then the problem is even worse and its code related and can't be fixed without a complete overhaul to how the system works. I
FYI when that post was made in 2013 gvg wasn't even released yet, and the game was a much slower pace. real time gaming is very different then what this game was before gvg. I will say I was here before gvg and even then the servers lag was pitiful as it had lag issues when trying to serve up all the new graphics and if I'm not mistaking was same time they setup the CDN service with www.highwinds.com but its limited to just the content streaming I think. In my opinion this company is more then qualified to assist inno in fixing the problems or at least determine if its resource related or code. Just have to pay them to do it.

JC
 

jc821

Active Member
I'm surprised this hasn't come up, perhaps some problems could also be explained by this...

“We believe that most DDoS attacks against our infrastructure are actually being perpetrated by our players themselves,” explained Raimund Schlichtiger, Head of System Administration. “Due to the highly competitive nature of our games, players seek to gain an advantage any way they can. By DDoSing the game at a certain time, players try to block their rivals from responding to a move within a given window of time.” In terms of impact, a targeted 5-minute DDoS attack against two of its more competitive games, without proper mitigation, would affect 100,000 players."
https://www.incapsula.com/resources/case-studies/innogames-case-study.html
That provides more information at some of the issues they have and it also shows how my original assessment on what was wrong with the system down-age the other day was bgb routing issue. Sometimes I hate always being right. I will say though even if they are getting attacked the underlying resources of the game is still a huge issue and I don't think inno has the staff who knows how to work with real time multi user asynchronous programming.
 

sloppyjoeslayer

Well-Known Member
A server is a physical computer, but a host server can host many sites on one server. This is how hosting sites work and yes their servers are in miami florida at a hosting site. Based on this game runs and how bad the lag has been getting with each new world I can only assume based on my own knowledge as a IT consultant that these worlds are hosted on a single server, and your link shows something I have said all along that there is only 1 application server. Most likely its a database server of some sort to host the data for the players and may or may not be the actual processing host of the game. Either way as a IT consultant who has been doing this for many years I am insulted by the lack of resources they have devoted to this game to handle the load considering some of us have spent a lot of money and time here. This game was not designed to scale based on what I have seen. Most sites can operate fine with a many site to one host configuration; however, this is a time sensitive game where players compete and do so at a very fast pace. GVG is most likely innos first experience with a application that runs and real time and doesn't understand the resources it takes to deliver the game experience when scaled out. Example of this is they use the beta server a lot, but yet its not a good place to test these types of performance issues because the load isn't the same. If they shut down every single world right now and only left A world up I'm willing to bet the resources they have in place would run the game fine with little to no lag. Its in my opinion each world they create is only hurting the game by creating more lag. Again I should state fully that these are assumptions made by my own knowledge and by guessing on how the system runs. I doubt I am wrong or at least far off from how its setup. However if I am wrong in how its setup then the problem is even worse and its code related and can't be fixed without a complete overhaul to how the system works. I
FYI when that post was made in 2013 gvg wasn't even released yet, and the game was a much slower pace. real time gaming is very different then what this game was before gvg. I will say I was here before gvg and even then the servers lag was pitiful as it had lag issues when trying to serve up all the new graphics and if I'm not mistaking was same time they setup the CDN service with www.highwinds.com but its limited to just the content streaming I think. In my opinion this company is more then qualified to assist inno in fixing the problems or at least determine if its resource related or code. Just have to pay them to do it.

JC
I think you replied before I updated with a link to the data center article. It says it has..

"..a monthly subscription to vnCloud, clients buy processors, disk space and memory, then use those resources to build a “virtual data center”. Without the high cost of hourly services, companies save big. Vault Networks’ cloud hosting services empower clients to design and deploy their infrastructures in minutes, and they can scale up or down on resources in real time, at any time."

So not sure how all that fits in with what you just said lol.
 

snake11s

Game on, who can respond quicker and take up more wasted space in the forum trying to prove your point?
 

lemonwedgie

Well-Known Member
FYI when that post was made in 2013 gvg wasn't even released yet, and the game was a much slower pace. real time gaming is very different then what this game was before gvg. I will say I was here before gvg and even then the servers lag was pitiful as it had lag issues

JC
Correct ... hence why proposal after proposal after proposal was made for some type of mo/po all button (took years to get that one! lol). Prior to that you had to actually visit someones city to m/p them, it would take 30-45mins just to do your guild ... on a good day!

Fyi: I have been here since just a few months after FoE launched ... pre-GBs/GvG/Tavern/Treasure/Aid ... pre EVERYTHING ... all we could do was build cities and fight PvP, highest age was LMA ... so JC is absolutely right, lag has always been an issue. But back then, it wasn't as important just annoying. Then GvG came ... thats when lag became an issue as it can be the decider on the maps.
 

sloppyjoeslayer

Well-Known Member
FYI when that post was made in 2013 gvg wasn't even released yet, and the game was a much slower pace. real time gaming is very different then what this game was before gvg.
Correct ... hence why proposal after proposal after proposal was made for some type of mo/po all button (took years to get that one! lol). Prior to that you had to actually visit someones city to m/p them, it would take 30-45mins just to do your guild ... on a good day!

Fyi: I have been here since just a few months after FoE launched ... pre-GBs/GvG/Tavern/Treasure/Aid ... pre EVERYTHING ... all we could do was build cities and fight PvP, highest age was LMA ... so JC is absolutely right, lag has always been an issue. But back then, it wasn't as important just annoying. Then GvG came ... thats when lag became an issue as it can be the decider on the maps.
Every game has lag that's nothing new but regarding when inno moved to a new data center I'm not sure when they did that has anything to do with it because the article I linked here Proposal for Inno to Fix its Shit regarding the data center says "...cloud hosting services empower clients to design and deploy their infrastructures in minutes, and they can scale up or down on resources in real time, at any time." so it's kind of hard to believe inno hasn't taken advantage of that type of service since the move there or else why go with them and stay for so long.
 
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jaelis

Well-Known Member
Folks, lets all remember the forum rules against personal attacks. I had to delete a few posts. Of course this is a heated topic but so far it's stayed reasonably civil, let's try to keep it that way.
 

jaelis

Well-Known Member
My honest opinion is that GvG is simply too much for a flash game. GvG relies on heavy connectivity and fast timing, and I have the sense that flash is just a clunky beast that can't easily handle it. Are there any other flash games that try to do something that ambitious?
 

sloppyjoeslayer

Well-Known Member
My honest opinion is that GvG is simply too much for a flash game. GvG relies on heavy connectivity and fast timing, and I have the sense that flash is just a clunky beast that can't easily handle it. Are there any other flash games that try to do something that ambitious?
I have no idea but this don't sound good;

"Performance—
Macromedia spent thousands of hours making the required Flash plug-in for the Web as small as possible so that the maximum number of people could download it easily. But that required some sacri-fices, and the major one was performance. Flash underperforms virtually all other game-development platforms in speed of code execution and graphics rendering. On the other side of the fence, game-development platforms like Macromedia Director and WildTangent perform very well—but have enormous plug-ins. As a result, few people can view such content without being forced to download the plug-in in addition to the game."

"Real-time multiplayer games
Creating this kind of game is certainly possible, but for many reasons it is not easy to accomplish. One of the main factors is the nature of these games. Due to network latency, it would be very difficult, if even possible, to create a real-time multiplayer game like, say, Mortal Kombat. However, some real-time multiplayer games that lack interaction between players, such as a scavenger hunt, might be more feasible. We will discuss this more in Chapter 17, "Tic-Tac-Toe: Your First Multiplayer Game."
http://www.adobepress.com/articles/article.asp?p=30431&seqNum=4

edit; that info looks to be from 2003, looking for more recent address on the matter
 
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lemonwedgie

Well-Known Member
Let's address a few of JC's points:

SNIP
My post was removed because I violated the rules. Apparently I am not allowed to call you rude names, I must only reply with politeness.

So ...

My dearest Sir,

What you speak of may appear reasonable but all of us at Grefential know that you are an unreasonable hypocrite who has a dislike for all and especially Mucka because he made you cry. I am sorry nobody cared enough to wipe away your tears. What a harsh world we live in.

*casts eyes down, and curtsies*

Thank you for reading, kind sir.

Note to mods - perfectly polite :)
 
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jc821

Active Member
Every game has lag that's nothing new but regarding when inno moved to a new data center I'm not sure when they did that has anything to do with it because the article I linked here Proposal for Inno to Fix its Shit regarding the data center says "...cloud hosting services empower clients to design and deploy their infrastructures in minutes, and they can scale up or down on resources in real time, at any time." so it's kind of hard to believe inno hasn't taken advantage of that type of service since the move there or else why go with them and stay for so long.
You would be my ideal client my friend. If I believed everything I read on a puff piece trying to sell me something I would have won publishing clearing house like 10 times already. However in theory yes cloud services make it easier but it doesn't do everything for you nor does it mean when demand is high resources are there on demand. There are some clouds who can do this like amazon cloud services but you must use their system and you are limited in some parts of that. This game however is a hodge posh of flash and hidden php that gets executed on a server connected to another database server. So in some way yes i agree with your assessment and as a IT expert I am flat out telling you they are not utilizing all the resources they could to fix the issues. Im not sure if its greed or if they truly do not understand the problems well enough to fix them. Look at the employee you gave as an example he just got promoted this year. Now im not saying he has no clue what he is doing or that hes not qualified but im willing to put money on that they have a high turn over in higher level positions at inno, and hiring within might be good when you want to cater to your employees but when your team has had issues as long as inno has I would be looking at higher from outside then in. Again presumptions on my part based on info I see.


Now because you brought it up im going to give my big pile of poo on the term cloud. Cloud is a marketing term designed by some very smart marketing people. 10 years ago if I went to a client and said Im going to save you a ton of money if you let me put all your servers apps and data in the internet. Not only would I be stopped mid presentation they would call security because some wacka-a-doo got in. Now flash forward and I go into a company and say hey lets put all ur servers apps and data in the cloud so you can scale on demand and save a ton of money, you can see the executives wondering off foaming at the mouth with visions of buying that new yacht to take their girlfriends on.


So now let hop on the scale on demand aspect of the magical cloud. Lets use your home internet fiber you just bought as a good analogy. Yes that awesome you now have fiber and you can get speeds up to 1Gb now however did you get that 1Gb? Nope you bought the 50mb promo deal because it was at a price comparable to what you was paying before. Now you have a fiber line though so you can scale on demand and if you pick up the phone and say yes bill me 5 times extra for 1gb they will have u switched over before you can hang up the phone. Now lets say you are pap's in this analogy and you are content with 50mb because lets be honest you came from dial up and when you pull up your email it still shows up the exact same as it did 10 years ago so your happy. Now take me and mucka as your 2 nagging kids who constantly are fighting everyday over the computers xbox and mobile phones, and were are typical teenagers. We are constantly nagging you we need more speed papa the internet is broke. We cant play our games or do our HOMEWORK, because johnny is downloading adult material in the background and the only left of that 50mb is enough for your email to work. So you pop on you check the internet as you always do and yep your email's about how trump is making America great again is still coming down. So you just say its working fine and don't see the need to pay more for something that's working fine. So what did mucka do he got tired of it and left the house and joined a cult that had 1gb fiber and free room and board.

Last but not least quit calling it a datacenter Inno basically found a cheaper goDaddy company who provide a few extra services for less money. I know this because i had a client that had used them for hosting 1 of our DR sites before me moved it more inland. I always laugh at the idea of putting a datacenter right by the ocean next to the most hurricane and storm prone areas of the country and call it a teir 1 datacenter.

So moral of this story is don't let your kids join a cult for more speed just listen to them as most likely they know way more then you do.

Respectfully da IT Guy trying desperately to keep this conversation non technical so the masses can understand it.

JC
 

jc821

Active Member
Let's address a few of JC's points:

1. "you were banned in g world for saying a bad word again" - let's emphasize "again." JC821 knows the rules. If he refuses to exercise self control, that's not an issue with Inno. That's an issue with - you guessed it, JC821! JC complains about "liberal snowflakes" but if he's taking the position of a conservative here, he needs to own his personal responsibility - and it is evident that he is not behaving in a responsible way, or he wouldn't be banned.

2. "we are all a bunch of psycho adults being forced to chat as children" - how about no, you're being held to the rules you agreed to when you created an account. If you don't like those rules and prefer a more adult environment where you can swear and rant, feel free to try another game. Inno's under no obligation to make this game a "safe space" for the "psycho adults" as you call them. Inno wants a game all people can play and increases the use of their product - "power players" with an attitude are not the mainstream of the market they want to capture.

3. JC821 and Mucka Smash's attitude is the exact thing that makes this game less hospitable to newcomers and all ages. They want to come on and claim high ground, but the fact is that people with their attitude have a view that their play accomplishments on a game make them worthy of special consideration on the part of the game developers and customer service - and an outsized role in the global chat community, including pushing the bounds of good taste and then complaining that they shouldn't be banned for it because it should be allowed. Well again, snowflakes, you knew the rules!

4. If anything, my issue with Innogames is not their overenforcement but in some cases, lack thereof. Global chat is often a cesspool of narcissists who think that the dominating factor of the chat day should be whatever particular political, social or anti-Inno spiel they wish to embark on that day, and repeat every day thereafter. It's lunacy to think that you get to come into Inno's house and take a dump on the company or employees. Regardless of your technical awareness or legitimacy of your concerns, the way you express them is hostile and irritating to others and not conducive to encouraging others to take you seriously, or desire to address your complaints with extra effort.

Inno doesn't provide a free product, open chat, or a forum for you to make it about YOU. Play nicely and recognize the limitations, or play elsewhere. Frankly, the absence of some of these obsessive complainers would make the game nicer for the rest of us who treat it like what it truly is - a game, a diversion and a pleasant way to spend some time.
Sorry Graham but I am still busy eating my milky way. I promise when I get a few minutes to spare I will read this because Im sure you have something meaningful to say as always. Maybe next time I go #2 I will bring my phone with me so I can pull this up and read it as thats typically where i think about you the most.
I do love when you write you do so with a ((̲̅ ̲̅(̲̅C̲̅r̲̅a̲̅y̲̅o̲̅l̲̲̅̅a̲̅( ̲̅((> shows me their is still hope in our school systems these days.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ʝɕ™ left the Conversation.
 
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