Fixed Rogue with armor possible Bug

DeletedUser10076

World: B
Server: Google Chrome
Description: The special skill secret identity states, that if no other unit is left in the army without secret identity the unit dies. However, today I fought an army with both a drummer and a rogue. I saved the rogue for last but it took two hits to kill the rogue, the first doing 10 damage leaving it with one bar left.
Screenshots: If i run into this army again I will try to take a screen shot, didn't think about it till much later.
How often: Only once so far, could have been a fluke.
Search: yes/if reported i didn't find
tips: N/A
 

DeletedUser10755

I've heard of this a few days ago, however; doesn't this suggest that things are working properly?

Drummer adds 1 armor to all units. Rogue now has 11 (10+1) armor. Rogues without a unit to use "secret Identity" on take 10-10 damage, leaving the rogue with 1 armor. The last hit finishes him off.

Perhaps the animation of rogue turning into a rogue leads to confusion?
 

DeletedUser8861

Yes this is as designed...and Insanefury - your explanation is dead on...the rogue turns into a rogue with an extra hitpoint before it can be killed.
 

DeletedUser9184

The rogue doesn't take 10 damage, it ignores the damage, but then transforms. If there's nothing for it to transform into, it should die, so are you sure this isn't a bug?
 

DeletedUser10076

how can a rogue transform if its the last one left standing? Secret Identity clearly states that if there are only units left with secret Identity the unit dies. and if its transforming into itself wouldn't it brush off the first hit leaving it with 11 health bars?
 
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DeletedUser8152

I would have called this a bug too. If there is another unit on the screen, the rogue transforms on the first hit, no matter how much or how little damage that hit does. So if there isn't another unit on the screen, the first hit ought to kill the rogue.
 

DeletedUser8861

I have reclassed this as pending...although I fairly certain this is not a bug....if you are increasing every troop on the battle field by one, and the rogue is included, the rogue (when left on the battlefield by itself or with other rogues) is normally killed in one hit which would mean to give it more strength it would take two hits to kill it...Insanefury's explanation makes sense to me...

Otherwise, what is the purpose of the drummer unit...if the rogues still have the exact same characteristics with a drummer on the field what is the purpose of the drummer?
 

DeletedUser8152

Otherwise, what is the purpose of the drummer unit...if the rogues still have the exact same characteristics with a drummer on the field what is the purpose of the drummer?
They transform into units with the armor boost, that is still valuable.

But if this was a deliberate decision, that's fine. It just means there is an unmentioned special feature about how drummers interact with rogues. They didn't tell us about it, but they don't tell us about lots of things.
 

DeletedUser2382

heh, yeah they probably didn't think of that. I don't really see it mixing stuff up much though.
 

DeletedUser10755

The rogue doesn't take 10 damage, it ignores the damage, but then transforms. If there's nothing for it to transform into, it should die, so are you sure this isn't a bug?
While it does say this in the rogue description, it's a generalization of what happens and not an accurate description of the mechanics involved. Now with the introduction of a drummer, it should be addressed.

I would have called this a bug too. If there is another unit on the screen, the rogue transforms on the first hit, no matter how much or how little damage that hit does. So if there isn't another unit on the screen, the first hit ought to kill the rogue.
Although this is how it appears, I think the mechanics work slightly different and thus leading to confusion.

Rogues take 10-10 damage from any attack. If there is another unit, the rogue will use "secret identity" and transform ("poof" animation) into that unit with full life (provided the rogue had full life prior to the start of battle). If there is not, it dies ("poof" animation).

Now add a drummer and we have rogue with 10 + 1 armor. The sticking point is that no attack can do more than 10 damage. Therefore the lone rogue will always have 1 armor remaining after the initial attack and require two attacks to kill when combined with a drummer.

The "poof" animation may be the confusing part here, but necessary.

Consider if the rogue took the 10 damage, had 1 armor remaining and didn't "poof". If there were no other units, it would simply die on the second attack; no issues there.

However, take the above case and assume there were units to use "secret identity" on. The rogues would turn into that unit with 1 armor remaining which would fundamentally change the function of rogues.

I think the animation makes sense when considering rogues without units to use "secret identity" on, do not die from one attack; they take 10-10 damage. Prior to the existence of drummers, units had no more than 10 armor so this was the case and players assumed that lone rogues = 1-shot kill. Furthermore, the "poof" animation is universal in the sense that it accommodates both possibilities (secret identity or not), and I'm assuming it required less coding (less money) than a different solution.
 
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DeletedUser16869

Yes, the Rogues need to be updated to account for the existence of drummers. They are meant to be killed if there are no other units:

"Secret Identity is special ability for military units making ignores first damage and transforms into another unit of your army (dies instead, if you have no unit left without secret identity)."

The current implementation of taking ten damage needs to be up[dated] to eleven.
 

allupinya

Member
I have several people attacking me with a 7 Rogue 1 Troop configuration, and supposedly the Rogues are not supposed to attain the "special" skills (i.e., Hide in Forest, Contact feature, etc.) until the following turn - they are only supposed to transform into another troop. However, this has not been the case with the attacks against me. The single troop being used is the Contemporary Era Anti Aircraft Vehicle, which has the "Contact!" skill, and when my troops attack the 7 Rogues (first of course, defense NEVER attacks the single troop first), each Rogue transforms and then attacks the troop that attacked it. This means that my troops are at least 70-80% dead before my attacker even "fires" a shot.
 

DeletedUser10076

I have several people attacking me with a 7 Rogue 1 Troop configuration, and supposedly the Rogues are not supposed to attain the "special" skills (i.e., Hide in Forest, Contact feature, etc.) until the following turn - they are only supposed to transform into another troop. However, this has not been the case with the attacks against me. The single troop being used is the Contemporary Era Anti Aircraft Vehicle, which has the "Contact!" skill, and when my troops attack the 7 Rogues (first of course, defense NEVER attacks the single troop first), each Rogue transforms and then attacks the troop that attacked it. This means that my troops are at least 70-80% dead before my attacker even "fires" a shot.
at some point that did change.
 

DeletedUser8152

at some point that did change.
Yes, and it has changed consistently. Rogues in the forest that turn into jaegers are now hidden right away.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, the Rogues need to be updated to account for the existence of drummers. They are meant to be killed if there are no other units:

"Secret Identity is special ability for military units making ignores first damage and transforms into another unit of your army (dies instead, if you have no unit left without secret identity)."

The current implementation of taking ten damage needs to be up[dated] to eleven.
Either that or the description could be updated to be more accurate.
 

Starzaan

This issue has been forwarded to the devs (FOE-24429). It should either be resolved so that the rogue dies in one hit, or the description of Secret Identity may need to be altered.
 

DeletedUser14545

I cant believe they removed the extra armor from the rogues. This was the best thing about drummers. Now drummers are effectively useless. They do not help in anyway especially in the higher ages. The absolute best feature about drummers were they mad players have to make a decision on killing the army and then killing the rogues in 2 hits or just popping the rogues. This is what made the drummer valuable. You have now effectively taken away the most valuable aspect of the drummer. Anyone who could not understand that the drummer added an extra point of armor to the rogue obviously cant use common sense. And now they have removed the feature because of a couple guys complaining. This is absolutely unacceptable. I want to know why my rogue dies in 1 hit when it has 11 armor points. NO TROOP can do more than 10 damage points so how are my rogues being killed when they have 11 armor????? This should not have been changed.
 

DeletedUser13866

I cant believe they removed the extra armor from the rogues. This was the best thing about drummers. Now drummers are effectively useless. They do not help in anyway especially in the higher ages. The absolute best feature about drummers were they mad players have to make a decision on killing the army and then killing the rogues in 2 hits or just popping the rogues. This is what made the drummer valuable. You have now effectively taken away the most valuable aspect of the drummer. Anyone who could not understand that the drummer added an extra point of armor to the rogue obviously cant use common sense. And now they have removed the feature because of a couple guys complaining. This is absolutely unacceptable. I want to know why my rogue dies in 1 hit when it has 11 armor points. NO TROOP can do more than 10 damage points so how are my rogues being killed when they have 11 armor????? This should not have been changed.
secret identity requires said unit to die if it cannot transform, has nothing to do with the amount of damage it can take. if you dont want them to die after 1 hit, make sure there is a unit that isnt a rogue or a rogue that has already been transformed on the battlefield.