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should we stop plundering ????

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
I'm still not sure when it is sniping and when it is just adding FPs.
If it’s a unsolicited contribution with the intent to take a spot I’ll call it sniping

If the owner is using swaps with the intent to secure spots and then bump the swap partner off, and hasn’t informed the swap partner will be bumped down then I’ll call it organised sniping.

And finally - I've been told to ask a player before putting FPs on a building not posted for swap. Normal procedure for most people?
if they’re a guild member you should always ask first. If they’re a friend it depends on your relationship with that player and what you’re intending the friends list to be. Neighbours you don’t need to get permission from (even the game says neighbours could be friends or enemies) but don’t expect them to be happy about you adding FPs if you don’t ask
 

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
More plundering topics :rolleyes:
No. Plundering is an important and rewarding part of the game. Any plunder is won fair and square, because the attacker's army is better than the defenders. The defenders allow themselves to be plundered by not placing a strong enough city defense and not collecting from their buildings.

If by "fair and square" you mean that the Attacker wins 97% of the time.....

People hate it because they think they are being stolen from, they think it is unfair. In reality, it is part of the game rules, 100% fair. It can be an opportunity to help players get better, as being plundered isn't fun and the player being plundered will change their strategy.
For me, plundering is almost something I live off of. It is extremely helpful to plunder 30 goods from somebody, especially in a resource that isn't boosted for me. Coins and supplies... meh.
Special buildings that produce FPs and goods buildings... hell yeah.

But there is really no way for a defending player to "get better"...not when a 500%, 600%, 700% or more Defensive boost is as near to being meaningless as makes no difference.

Agreed. I manual battle on PvP, and I get so disappointed when I see 2 spearfighters. Now, I don't see why you don't plunder everybody, you beat them, you deserve to.
I don't usually feel bad plundering, but when the player has a COLISEUM, I'm gonna lose any guilt I would've had.
And then there's the dumb people who put a ton of rogues in their defense....

With this part of your post, I find that I cannot disagree.

If a player puts forth an honest attempt at a defensive Army, I tend not to Plunder them. If I see 2 Spearfighters, though, all bets are off.
 

Graviton

Well-Known Member
But there is really no way for a defending player to "get better"...not when a 500%, 600%, 700% or more Defensive boost is as near to being meaningless as makes no difference.

I have to call this out for the misleading mischaracterization that it is.

Just because there's somebody out there who can beat a 600% defense doesn't mean your 600% defense is worthless. Anecdotal evidence: I've had two attackers this week surrender after initiating an attack when they saw my 507% defense. That's the opposite of "worthless". Sure, a couple of times a month my defense is beaten. At least as often, it is not. And there's no way to know how many attacks aren't even attempted because they gauge my defense and decide not to try at all.

What's worthless is calling a high defense worthless because it's not impregnable to literally everybody. That's allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good.
 

Aggressor

Active Member
If by "fair and square" you mean that the Attacker wins 97% of the time.....
No, I mean what I said. If an attacker can beat a defender, thats fair. If they powerleveled their Zeus, CoA and CdM? Still fair. They chose to invest into those GBs do make their armies better, so they could beat people like their neighbors.
But there is really no way for a defending player to "get better"...not when a 500%, 600%, 700% or more Defensive boost is as near to being meaningless as makes no difference.
Uh, yeah they can. They can dedicate better troops to city defense, start making smarter productions in their goods buildings, maybe even learn to attack better themselves so they can take revenge on their attackers. And like what @Graviton said, a 600% defense isn't worthless just because somebody can beat it.
With this part of your post, I find that I cannot disagree.

If a player puts forth an honest attempt at a defensive Army, I tend not to Plunder them. If I see 2 Spearfighters, though, all bets are off.
I don't see why attackers don't just go ahead and plunder though. It is within the game rules and very beneficial. And if I had a Voyager and Atlantis I would be rich :D
 

DevaCat

Well-Known Member
I agree with the concept that it provides an opportunity for players to get better -- at the game.

Think about all those newcomers who start the game and all they want to do is build their little city, maybe do a little trading (if they can learn how to make anything), they've got their pretty little Oracle up, barely built any military tech tree buildings, haven't set up a DA, don't attack their neighbors (and some smugly advertise that they don't while condemning those who do) -- and their cities are stalled. Until they open that magic tech that opens them up to attacks and plundering by others, and a whole new dimension of the game opens up to them.

It forces them to consider and maybe build GBs they had not even examined before, to try to get those special buildings that boost this and that, to try this and that to help themselves out. To further explore the game. It encourages them to fight back, and in the process discover that: hey! Fighting battles and winning actually improves my ranking and it's moving me higher in the hood, imagine that! They battle in the hood and improve, and don't even have to plunder. But it's absolutely fine if they do. The game is designed this way.

I frankly don't understand this gnawing of the bone of high defense boost being meaningless. It's demonstrably not meaningless, if for nothing more than acting as a deterrence for many attacks as has been pointed out. Continuing to make post after post about this is beginning to seem a bit obsessive imho. If it's that disturbing, why not propose an Idea and get it out of your system?
 

DeletedUser12889

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The only problem I have with plundering is when advanced players plunder far less advanced players. I think that is bad form and frankly shouldn't be allowed. But whatever, I don't see it as an Inno problem, it's just that there are assholes out there and there is just no avoiding that reality.
 
I keep seeing the advice not to rely on "the two spearfighters". Having just started this game about 2 weeks ago, that's all I have. How do you add more units to city defense?
(by the way, after being plundered once, I took the advice here and switched to making sure I get my goods and production buildings are on 24 hour cycles so there is nothing plunderable. and I get them right away.) I have added defense thru the tavern, but I don't see any option on how to add to the defensive army, I have seen the little "video" of the attacks and they are the same 2 spearfighters. I've tried aging out to avoid the guy but although I'm now in EMA, and he's in Iron, he has a bunch of GBs that are way beyond his age (he has Alcatraz in iron age. I also did a little mini quest where I obtained a couple of watchtowers, but the guy is persistantly attacking.
 

Reese7990

Active Member
I keep seeing the advice not to rely on "the two spearfighters". Having just started this game about 2 weeks ago, that's all I have. How do you add more units to city defense?
(by the way, after being plundered once, I took the advice here and switched to making sure I get my goods and production buildings are on 24 hour cycles so there is nothing plunderable. and I get them right away.) I have added defense thru the tavern, but I don't see any option on how to add to the defensive army, I have seen the little "video" of the attacks and they are the same 2 spearfighters. I've tried aging out to avoid the guy but although I'm now in EMA, and he's in Iron, he has a bunch of GBs that are way beyond his age (he has Alcatraz in iron age. I also did a little mini quest where I obtained a couple of watchtowers, but the guy is persistantly attacking.
Unfortunately there are players who like to camp a very long time in Iron Age. The antique shop being added did finally make some budge, as you have to be a quarter of the way into EMA to use it. There is no defense against a player who has been in an era 8 months to a year plus. Save for collect on time and get as much polished and motivated as you can.
 

DevaCat

Well-Known Member
I keep seeing the advice not to rely on "the two spearfighters". Having just started this game about 2 weeks ago, that's all I have. How do you add more units to city defense?
(by the way, after being plundered once, I took the advice here and switched to making sure I get my goods and production buildings are on 24 hour cycles so there is nothing plunderable. and I get them right away.) I have added defense thru the tavern, but I don't see any option on how to add to the defensive army, I have seen the little "video" of the attacks and they are the same 2 spearfighters. I've tried aging out to avoid the guy but although I'm now in EMA, and he's in Iron, he has a bunch of GBs that are way beyond his age (he has Alcatraz in iron age. I also did a little mini quest where I obtained a couple of watchtowers, but the guy is persistantly attacking.
You are going to run into players who camp in every age/era; some folk just like being the big fish in a little pond. Some camp for a while for different reasons, some seem to stay there forever lol. You probably have already figured out that aging up to avoid one just exposes you to a new set of campers and doesn't really solve the problem.

Sounds like you're doing the right things re plundering, so all I'd add is advice to slow down for a bit and work on the city. Two weeks to EMA isn't very long. Put the best units you can into that defensive army, and let us know how it's working. Good luck!
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
You are going to run into players who camp in every age/era; some folk just like being the big fish in a little pond. Some camp for a while for different reasons, some seem to stay there forever lol. You probably have already figured out that aging up to avoid one just exposes you to a new set of campers and doesn't really solve the problem.
Yeah, especially as the only way forward campers have is the next age. Funnily enough there's as big of a gap in the last age(s) of the techtree between player cities as there is in the lower ages when you come across campers.
 

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
I have to call this out for the misleading mischaracterization that it is.

Just because there's somebody out there who can beat a 600% defense doesn't mean your 600% defense is worthless. Anecdotal evidence: I've had two attackers this week surrender after initiating an attack when they saw my 507% defense. That's the opposite of "worthless". Sure, a couple of times a month my defense is beaten. At least as often, it is not. And there's no way to know how many attacks aren't even attempted because they gauge my defense and decide not to try at all.

What's worthless is calling a high defense worthless because it's not impregnable to literally everybody. That's allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

If it is such a "mischaracterization", why do we see so many posts on the subject?

To be clear: my objection to the way Inno implemented City Defense isn't with the fact that a high defense can be beaten. I would expect that, under some circumstances (as well as a bit of luck), there is no such thing as an "impregnable" defense. Nor would I want such a thing.

My objection is with one 'strategy'- not really deserving of the name- that does, in fact, render any defense- the high defensive boost I've seen posted that was beaten by it was something like 850%- worthless.

I've had players attack and, upon seeing my defense, retreat as soon as it is possible for them to do so. But I have never had anyone use "1+7" and retreat because they knew they didn't have to.
 

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
Uh, yeah they can. They can dedicate better troops to city defense, start making smarter productions in their goods buildings, maybe even learn to attack better themselves so they can take revenge on their attackers. And like what @Graviton said, a 600% defense isn't worthless just because somebody can beat it.

Okay...but let's narrow that advice down a bit.

"Start making smarter productions in their goods buildings" is not active defense. It is avoiding the topic at hand rather than addressing it.

"Learn to attack better themselves"- again, this is going to do nothing to prevent being Plundered.

"Dedicate better troops to city defense"- setting aside those who use the default defensive Army, even putting forth the best troops you can acquire in whatever Age you happen to be doesn't matter to those who employ "1+7". They're going to defeat your worst troops. They're going to defeat your best troops. While the combination of troops you use >should< matter, it really doesn't. My eight Hover Tanks are no more useful than if I used 2 Spearfighters.
 

Plain Red Justice

Active Member
Don't bother. They are going to do all sorts of mental gymnastics to defend that city defense is in any way, alright. Just be very relieved that your sanity and mind is still secured
 
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Dominator - X

Well-Known Member
i believe the same but it seems like the players in this game are having problems with this option .so i wonder if in the near future if INNO would ever get rid of it ?
It is up to the plunderers to educate the plundered on how to play the game the way it was designed to be played. Or, at least, how many of us have figured out how to play it, in conjunction with the plunder option.

On another note: I just had a neighbor tell me he does not like it when I plunder him and asked me if I would please stop. I laughed so hard that I was speechless. I prefer being called nasty names and told to get out of my mother's basement as well as being accused of having same sex attraction (let the reader use discernment). All of which I have experienced. I can live with those comments, because they motivate me to continue, since they indicate that I am playing the game right. But when they tell me that they do not appreciate being plundered, and ask me to stop... Well, I guess that motivates me to continue too. Either way, I now am enriched off of the backs/labor of the truly ignorant.

So.... No.... Inno should not take the plunder option away. I would prefer they devise a GB that increases the amount plundered. I would call it the V1A Museum or something like that. Crazy, I know, but I am big on the plunder option.
 

Graviton

Well-Known Member
If it is such a "mischaracterization", why do we see so many posts on the subject?

A mischaracterization remains one no matter how many repeat it. "Worthless" is a mischaracterization. Some people find value in not building it up, but that doesn't make it worthless, that just means some players value other things more.

I've had players attack and, upon seeing my defense, retreat as soon as it is possible for them to do so.

So, not worthless.

But I have never had anyone use "1+7" and retreat because they knew they didn't have to.

I find it hard to believe that your DA has never won an actual battle, but okay. Mine has.
 
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