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Slavery

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DeletedUser38439

There is a part story line that condones slavery as economically needed for this country. I find it to be offensive and have another player that actually read it and is so offended she may quit playing the game.I would like to address this issue to where I do not lose any more members of my guild!
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
What Quest are you talking about? Dee's Destiny?

"Your Grace! General Dee's ambassador told us about the independent South. The industry is not as advanced as in the North, and the high tariffs are deadly for its economy. They rely heavily on slave labor - but it is necessary to keep their economy running. "

If that is not it could you quote the Quest?

If that is it, what is it you find offensive about that?
 

DeletedUser29726

It is reflective of history. As told from within that history. You do have the option of siding with the north and waging war on General Dee and the south. (or siding with the south, or waging war on both (darn colonials), or playing peacekeeper between the sides - they were a lot more ambitious with story back then!)
 

Graviton

Well-Known Member
There is a part story line that condones slavery as economically needed for this country. I find it to be offensive and have another player that actually read it and is so offended she may quit playing the game.I would like to address this issue to where I do not lose any more members of my guild!

You have addressed it. Open a support ticket I guess, if you really want to. But maybe people offended by references to actual history in a history-themed game shouldn't be playing history-themed games. I mean, it's one thing to be surprised by something you don't like, quite another to choose to play a game about history and then choose to be offended by...history.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
There is a part story line that condones slavery as economically needed for this country. I find it to be offensive and have another player that actually read it and is so offended she may quit playing the game.I would like to address this issue to where I do not lose any more members of my guild!

Really no need for that. Why don't you just all quit. That will solve your problem much faster.
 
What Quest are you talking about? Dee's Destiny?

"Your Grace! General Dee's ambassador told us about the independent South. The industry is not as advanced as in the North, and the high tariffs are deadly for its economy. They rely heavily on slave labor - but it is necessary to keep their economy running. "

If that is not it could you quote the Quest?

If that is it, what is it you find offensive about that?
I find it offensive because not only is that not true, to say so suggests that slavery was/is justifiable - an inevitable act borne of need, which is culturally insensitive, historically inaccurate, and highly offensive. It essentially provides an economical justification that affirms slavery which, while an economical institution, was also a socio-cultural and political institution - one which preceded the Civil War. The statement doesn't acknowledge that, which I find short-sighted. I'm fine with playing a game that uses historical rdferences, but if it's going to do so, then I think those references should be historically accurate and culturally sensitive. For example, this same line of quests keeps using veiled and loaded language that characterizes Native Americans as limited and slow. We now that's not true, so how does it enhance the game or the game experience to reference them as such? All it does is providec a platform for the ignorant propaganda from that time. I don't deny that the perspective did exist, but since we know it's damaging and inaccurate, why not at least present a more comprehensive perspective? That storyline needs to be updated and, in addition to including a more historically sensitive approach to writing, there needs to be a more historically accurate approach if nothing else.
 
Okay, so you're offended about a reference to slavery being economically needed for a fictitious country in a game. What are you doing about the real Chinese slave labor, often children, that made the phone you're playing the game on?

Outrage over the fictitious, silent on the reality. Well played.
How do you know that he's silent on reality? Using ignorant assumptions to support a flawed argument, when all you have to do is simply say you disagree. Well played.
 
It's one thing to say that the South exploited a people and a system to further it's political end. It's another thing to frame it as a necessity. Doing so absolves the actors of fully acknowledging their free will, and it disregards not only the sociopolitical context of slavery (as if it were only a political or economical institution), but it doesn't speak to the motivation of slavery before the war.

I found the reference offensive, insensitive, and historically inaccurate and incomplete, and I am fine if I stand on that island by myself. Or, in this case, with McClurek - thank you McClurek. I find it odd, though, that there are some people who find the core issue too irrelevant to be broached, and yet reacting to someone who is interested in the conversation is worth their time and energy. If you really don't care, then why reply at all? If you care and just happen to disagree, why reply with sarcasm as if doing so strengthens your position? Why not just move on to a different discussion that is more worthy of your time?
I get that everyone isn't going care or agree, but if one really doesn't care or agree, why respond with such vehemence? if it's a non-issue for you, then the fact that I care should also be a non-issue, especially since I'm not asking anything of you - not your support or agreement, not one thing.
 
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barra370804

Well-Known Member
It's one thing to say that the South exploited a people and a system to further it's political end. It's another thing to frame it as a necessity. Doing so absolves the actors of fully acknowledging their free will, and it disregards not only the sociopolitical context of slavery (as if it were only a political or economical institution), but it doesn't speak to the motivation of slavery before the war.

I found the reference offensive, insensitive, and historically inaccurate and incomplete, and I am fine if I stand on that island by myself. Or, in this case, with McClurek - thank you McClurek. I find it odd, though, that there are some people who find the core issue too irrelevant to be broached, and yet reacting to someone who is interested in the conversation is worth their time and energy. If you really don't care, then why reply at all? If you care and just happen to disagree, why reply with sarcasm as if doing so strengthens your position? Why not just move on to a different discussion that is more worthy of your time?
Keep in mind that the narrative is coming from the perspective of a fictional character, not Inno's opinion on slavery. I think that they are trying to appropriately demonstrate the political viewpoint of someone from that time, they're not condoning it.

Also, not talking about it doesn't change the fact that it happened.
 

Graviton

Well-Known Member
It's one thing to say that the South exploited a people and a system to further it's political end. It's another thing to frame it as a necessity. Doing so absolves the actors of fully acknowledging their free will, and it disregards not only the sociopolitical context of slavery (as if it were only a political or economical institution), but it doesn't speak to the motivation of slavery before the war.

It's not a history lesson. Your expectations are way out of proportion. I don't want to have to read a doctoral thesis on the Civil War to complete a quest. In fact I don't read quests at all, other than what I have to build/buy/fight/donate to complete it.
 
I don't know what quest specifically you're referencing, but native Americans were primitive compared to locals, and unsurprisingly, didn't know English.
the Native Americans were actually the locals. I'm referring to repeated references of them as "inferior" - as a people, their technology, etc. There were multiple characterizations of them as inferior. Delayed technological advances and inferiority are not the same thing.
 
It's not a history lesson. Your expectations are way out of proportion. I don't want to have to read a doctoral thesis on the Civil War to complete a quest. In fact I don't read quests at all, other than what I have to build/buy/fight/donate to complete it.
If you don't want to read them at all, and my expectations differ from yours, why do you care that I care? I do want to read the quests, and their content matters to me. I'm not trying to convince you that your standards are sub-par. So why do you care about my standards at all? If doesn't have to be a dissertation to be more accurate or sensitive, and I know that from lived experience since I've written two dissertations and have two doctorates. One sentence of clarity would have been enough.
 
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barra370804

Well-Known Member
the Native Americans were actually the locals. I'm referring to repeated references of them as "inferior" - as a people, their technology, etc. There were multiple characterizations of them as inferior. Delayed technological advances and inferiority are not the same thing.
Their technology was inferior, colonials would have won if it came to war.
 
Keep in mind that the narrative is coming from the perspective of a fictional character, not Inno's opinion on slavery. I think that they are trying to appropriately demonstrate the political viewpoint of someone from that time, they're not condoning it.

Also, not talking about it doesn't change the fact that it happened.
The reminder of this being a character's perspective is a good one - thank you for that, as it helps me have a little more emotional distance. However, I don't want the writers to act like it didn't hapoen. I asked for a more comprehensive view, not for blinders. That view could simply come from another "character" who offers up a counterview in the form of another one-liner.
 
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Their technology was inferior, colonials would have won if it came to war.
then why call people inferior instead of just talking about the technology? And since many white men died while trying to figure out how to survive in North America, and more would have died with help from the First Nations , why not acknowledge that there were "inferiorities" on both sides which out both at disadvantages? To just call an entire people inferior is wrong.
 
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