Sniping Progress

ots3

New Member
Isn't it within their right? Can you show me a game rule that says otherwise?


And you assume others should follow your made up rules? Why?


You are free to create any artificial rules you want for this game, and to live by them. Just don't get all whiny when others don't play by your rules.
INNO makes the rules. It's fair to complain if someone breaks one of INNO's rules.
I can complain and whine all I want. There are no rules against it, We may not follow the same rules but if you feel it is within your right to level a persons gb and then you should get used to people annoying you with their whining and complaining because they aren't exactly happy with what happened.
 

Nicholas002

Well-Known Member
I can complain and whine all I want. There are no rules against it, We may not follow the same rules but if you feel it is within your right to level a persons gb and then you should get used to people annoying you with their whining and complaining because they aren't exactly happy with what happened.
Congrats! You are the first person I have ever heard who is proud of being a whiner!

most people try to surpress their inner whiner. You embrace him. Well done!
 

ots3

New Member
Congrats! You are the first person I have ever heard who is proud of being a whiner!

most people try to surpress their inner whiner. You embrace him. Well done!
lol It is a super power if used correctly Most people can't stand it
 
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ots3

New Member
lol It is a super power if used correctly Most people can't stand it
But back to topic each person has their own playing style even in sniping I just don't like being annoyed if you want to snipe snipe but don't level my GBs and be arrogant about it I have no problem returning the favor and then some
 

Vger

Well-Known Member
I have an idea of what sniping is, but what is it?
sniping: the act of bidding on an item on ebay literally seconds before the auction ends. This prevents anyone from outbidding you while also ensuring that you don't bump the price up too much.

For some odd reason, the FOE community co-opted the word to mean locking (or at least investing in) a spot on someone else's GB. The "snipe" often times, but not always, means that someone else with FPs on the GB, or the GB owner end up "upside down".

I've never liked the term. This isn't ebay, and there is no clock running for GB contributions. If you lock a spot on a GB, then you just ended the auction for that spot. Time has nothing to do with it.

Silly word to use here, but it sounds sort of evil thanks to ebay. I suppose that's why it stuck.
 

weizer2

New Member
I still don't get it. If I want to put my fp's on someones GB, and the top slot has some on it already, I'm not supposed to put more than that person so I can have the top slot? I don't care who puts fp's on my GB's, I'm just happy they get leveled. How does this get turned into a 12 page discussion? I guess what I'm asking is why does anyone get mad about fp's being put on someones GB?
 

Nicholas002

Well-Known Member
I still don't get it. If I want to put my fp's on someones GB, and the top slot has some on it already, I'm not supposed to put more than that person so I can have the top slot? I don't care who puts fp's on my GB's, I'm just happy they get leveled. How does this get turned into a 12 page discussion? I guess what I'm asking is why does anyone get mad about fp's being put on someones GB?
people get mad because they have come to place a value on the reward positions of their GBs. (usually 1.9 x the reward).
if they get less than 1.9, they feel like they have been cheated out of something, while in reality, they don't even own the rewards on their GBs, much less 1.9x those rewards.
I certainly have been guilty of this way of thinking myself, but if you think about it harder, it really doesn't make any sense.
that being said, I manage my GBs in such a way that they can't be sniped for less than 1.9.
 

Vger

Well-Known Member
I still don't get it. If I want to put my fp's on someones GB, and the top slot has some on it already, I'm not supposed to put more than that person so I can have the top slot?
You are free to put your FPs on any GB slot you want. If you are smart, you will only do that if it gives you an advantage. Typically that means you are going to get back more FPs than you put in, or you are going to get BPs you need at a good price.
There are some caveats though: Inside your guild, if you bump a guildie out of a spot so you can profit, you might get called out. That's fair. Your guild mates shouldn't be a profit center.
If it's a friend, well, the worst they can do is unfriend you. Most won't. I have had friends ask me not to do that, and I respect that request, assuming they are doing aid/tavern.
If it's a hoodie? No rules. Wild wild west. Just understand you run the risk of retaliation. They snipe you or they level a GB you want to double dip or they attack/plunder. Not things you should really be afraid of.
 

mangelwurzel

Active Member
sniping: the act of bidding on an item on ebay literally seconds before the auction ends. This prevents anyone from outbidding you while also ensuring that you don't bump the price up too much.
Ebay, seriously? I kinda thought it had something to do with guns, and shooting. Like, a single precision shot that hits the target. And a person who sits back quietly, waits for the right moment, and then makes the shot. But I've only been playing for two and a half years.

I usually don't prefer to describe "contributing FP to other people's GBs" as "bidding for spots". Occasionally it's like that, as in swaps, or if you know that the GB owner will level no matter what happens, and you're trying to see how little you can pay. But for more experienced players, it's more like looking at stuff for sale in a store. Is it worth the current price? If so, take it. If not, leave it. Putting down a partial payment and hoping no one outbids you is a sucker's game. If you don't lock the spot, it's not yours.
 
people get mad because they have come to place a value on the reward positions of their GBs. (usually 1.9 x the reward).
if they get less than 1.9, they feel like they have been cheated out of something, while in reality, they don't even own the rewards on their GBs, much less 1.9x those rewards.
I certainly have been guilty of this way of thinking myself, but if you think about it harder, it really doesn't make any sense.
that being said, I manage my GBs in such a way that they can't be sniped for less than 1.9.
I feel dumb, but I guess it's just ignorance. Please clarify for this 2-month newbie what "1.9x the reward" means. Like 1.9 x 30FP (or whatever) for the top contribution spot on a GB? That's all I can come up with, but that doesn't make any sense, so I'm guessing it's not that I have been cheated if no one donates 54FP for that top spot. I mean, how could I be cheated if some kind stranger donates 20FP to my Great Building and gets a 30FP reward? It isn't as if I am paying the reward, and some stranger just saved me 20FP, so THANK YOU, INNOGODS! I have seen people donate far more than the "value" of the slot, but I assumed they had a lot of FP and had to do something with them, so they locked up a fat reward in order to bank at least some of the FP. I have done that a couple of times myself, like getting 50FP for completing some quest and donating 46FP to secure a 35FP reward, because that way I get to keep at least 35/50FP against a future need. I hate to not be getting the hourly, because it adds up over time, so I have to use the 50 pretty quickly.

But I'm raving on. Am I missing the point of the 1.9 thing?
 

Nicholas002

Well-Known Member
I feel dumb, but I guess it's just ignorance. Please clarify for this 2-month newbie what "1.9x the reward" means. Like 1.9 x 30FP (or whatever) for the top contribution spot on a GB? That's all I can come up with, but that doesn't make any sense, so I'm guessing it's not that I have been cheated if no one donates 54FP for that top spot. I mean, how could I be cheated if some kind stranger donates 20FP to my Great Building and gets a 30FP reward? It isn't as if I am paying the reward, and some stranger just saved me 20FP, so THANK YOU, INNOGODS! I have seen people donate far more than the "value" of the slot, but I assumed they had a lot of FP and had to do something with them, so they locked up a fat reward in order to bank at least some of the FP. I have done that a couple of times myself, like getting 50FP for completing some quest and donating 46FP to secure a 35FP reward, because that way I get to keep at least 35/50FP against a future need. I hate to not be getting the hourly, because it adds up over time, so I have to use the 50 pretty quickly.

But I'm raving on. Am I missing the point of the 1.9 thing?
1.9 comes from The Arc, a great building which boosts contribution rewards. At level 80, the arc gives its owner a 90% boost of the reward spots on other players GBs. In other words the investor gets the initial reward plus 90% of the reward, for a total of 1.9x the reward. So if I have a arc lvl 80, and I donate to your GB, and I get a reward spot worth 10 FPs, I will get 19 FPs instead.

since so many players have a level 80 arc, it is not uncommon for players to get their guild mates and friends to donate 1.9 on all the positions on their GBs.
 
You are free to put your FPs on any GB slot you want. If you are smart, you will only do that if it gives you an advantage. Typically that means you are going to get back more FPs than you put in, or you are going to get BPs you need at a good price.
There are some caveats though: Inside your guild, if you bump a guildie out of a spot so you can profit, you might get called out. That's fair. Your guild mates shouldn't be a profit center.
If it's a friend, well, the worst they can do is unfriend you. Most won't. I have had friends ask me not to do that, and I respect that request, assuming they are doing aid/tavern.
If it's a hoodie? No rules. Wild wild west. Just understand you run the risk of retaliation. They snipe you or they level a GB you want to double dip or they attack/plunder. Not things you should really be afraid of.
2-month player here. Double dip?
 

Nicholas002

Well-Known Member
2-month player here. Double dip?
when you level a GB, it automatically finishes the production.
so you can collect your GB, immediately level it and collect again without resetting the timer, thus getting twice the production out of a 24 hr period than you normally would.

this is known as "double dipping".
It is a big deal with high level FP buildings, Traz, and GBs that give a certain number of chances for rewards after collection.
on GBs with static boosts, like Zeus and Temple of Relics, or minimal collections like goods and coins, it's not a big deal.
 

ahsay

Active Member
Not sure why the long discussion? If you want a spot on someones GB put enough FPs on the GB to get the spot you want.
 
1.9 comes from The Arc, a great building which boosts contribution rewards. At level 80, the arc gives its owner a 90% boost of the reward spots on other players GBs. In other words the investor gets the initial reward plus 90% of the reward, for a total of 1.9x the reward. So if I have a arc lvl 80, and I donate to your GB, and I get a reward spot worth 10 FPs, I will get 19 FPs instead.
"
since so many players have a level 80 arc, it is not uncommon for players to get their guild mates and friends to donate 1.9 on all the positions on their GBs.
Ahhh, I see. I think. Just to clarify, to make sure I understand: I'm sitting here in my Early Middle Age city with an Arc (that I have gotten in some fashion unimaginable to me) and leveled up 79(?) times over the past X months/years. My incentive to devote real-world time and very limited in-game resources to this effort is that having a Level 80 Arc multiplies the benefit (to me) of my philanthropy to my fellow Royals, Dictators, and Masters of the Universe. [So far, this is very true to life. This is exactly how the US Tax Code is used to incentivize desired taxpayer behavior.] Knowing that I am getting this benefit, my friends all say, "Hey, Zerb, you get 19 for 10 when you GIVE me a thing that both of us value, so it's only fair if you give me an additional 90% out of your pocket to, you know, make up for it. Because that's the way things actually work in, you know, life and stuff." And this makes so much sense to them that they all actually do this themselves, and they will think there is something wrong with me if I don't do it, too. ... Is that about right?

This is the point at which I realize :eek: that the people I am playing with do not have MBA's or JD's. The words "fraud" and "extortion" spring to mind, as does a term from the 1950's broadcast music industry, "pay to play." Do not try this in the real world, my children, or lawyers will charge you many Diamonds to define for you the words "kickback," "felony," and "slammer.":oops:

Thanks for the explanation, Nicholas002, and a Tip of the Medieval Hat to you!
 
when you level a GB, it automatically finishes the production.
so you can collect your GB, immediately level it and collect again without resetting the timer, thus getting twice the production out of a 24 hr period than you normally would.

this is known as "double dipping".
It is a big deal with high level FP buildings, Traz, and GBs that give a certain number of chances for rewards after collection.
on GBs with static boosts, like Zeus and Temple of Relics, or minimal collections like goods and coins, it's not a big deal.
You are a regular Font of Information, Nick2! I have an Oracle and a Lighthouse, so I suddenly know what it feels like for the guy in the Early Middle Ages who meets a time traveler. Explanations raise two questions for every answer. And like that guy, I am content to know that it doesn't apply to me yet.

Thanks again!
-Zerb
 

mangelwurzel

Active Member
Ahhh, I see. I think. Just to clarify, to make sure I understand: I'm sitting here in my Early Middle Age city with an Arc (that I have gotten in some fashion unimaginable to me) and leveled up 79(?) times over the past X months/years. My incentive to devote real-world time and very limited in-game resources to this effort is that having a Level 80 Arc multiplies the benefit (to me) of my philanthropy to my fellow Royals, Dictators, and Masters of the Universe. [So far, this is very true to life. This is exactly how the US Tax Code is used to incentivize desired taxpayer behavior.] Knowing that I am getting this benefit, my friends all say, "Hey, Zerb, you get 19 for 10 when you GIVE me a thing that both of us value, so it's only fair if you give me an additional 90% out of your pocket to, you know, make up for it. Because that's the way things actually work in, you know, life and stuff." And this makes so much sense to them that they all actually do this themselves, and they will think there is something wrong with me if I don't do it, too. ... Is that about right?

This is the point at which I realize :eek: that the people I am playing with do not have MBA's or JD's. The words "fraud" and "extortion" spring to mind, as does a term from the 1950's broadcast music industry, "pay to play." Do not try this in the real world, my children, or lawyers will charge you many Diamonds to define for you the words "kickback," "felony," and "slammer.":oops:

Thanks for the explanation, Nicholas002, and a Tip of the Medieval Hat to you!
No, it's much more like the simple, old-fashioned "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" agreement. When you're on a 1.9 list with someone, you agree to put 1.9*reward on their buildings, and they agree to do the same on your buildings. If you don't like the rules, don't join the list. And if you won't give 1.9*reward, it's easy for them to find someone who will.

Think of it in economic terms. You may only want to pay a low price for an object, but the object's owner will hold out for the best price they can get. And what we have here is a standardized marketplace with standardized prices, with a lot of people willing to buy and sell at those prices.

It's like, if I go up to someone and offer to give them $5 for their car, on the theory that we both benefit, they'll laugh in my face. In this situation, I'm not being philanthropic by giving them $5. I'm offering to buy something for a price, and they're refusing my offer because they know they can find someone who'll pay more.

(None of this applies to people that you're not on a list with. And even there, there are differences of opinions regarding what to do about GB positions that weren't put on the list. But even so, some people generalize this type of behavior and expect it to apply to complete strangers. It's probably a side-effect of having lived in civilization their whole life, and never having met people who would happily kill them and take their stuff. Or maybe they're just new to computer games.)
 

Emberguard

Senior Ingame Moderator
Knowing that I am getting this benefit, my friends all say, "Hey, Zerb, you get 19 for 10 when you GIVE me a thing that both of us value, so it's only fair if you give me an additional 90% out of your pocket to, you know, make up for it. [...]
That's not remotely what 1.9 was intended for. It's just headed towards that direction as more players start to expect it prior to getting a lvl 80 Arc. 1.9 is meant to be a two-way swap not just one-way donation. There is zero benefit to a lvl 80 Arc player contributing 1.9 if they're not getting 1.9 on their GBs in return. Anyone not willing to contribute the same amount back should be willing to give back some of the profit by accepting a lower amount.

1.9 first came about between Lvl 80 Arc owners to other Lvl 80 Arc owners to skip having to do micro transactions. When you have two players swapping the same GB(s) on the same 5-100 FP swap over and over in quick succession you might as well just agree to a single lump sum swap. That's what 1.9 is. Avoiding having to reply to each other 20 times in 5 minutes for what could have been a single transaction if you knew ahead of time how many swaps you were doing.

That's why the profit is included in the transaction, it's also why the owner is expected to prime the GB with their own FPs. It's aiming to get the best result of the swaps if you saw those swaps through to conclusion (and had a lvl 80 arc). Anything kept in inventory has no value until invested. If you were already going to invest them by putting them into swaps then including them in the lump sum would speed up the process and be progress towards the aim of 1.9: completing each step in as few steps as possible

The other benefit is doing it in a few steps is it allows all parties involved in swapping between each other to guarantee they get profit from the swap instead of being sniped