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Forwarded Sortable Columns

Should this be implemented?

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 72.2%
  • No

    Votes: 5 27.8%

  • Total voters
    18
Status
Not open for further replies.

Sheriff Of Rottingham

Active Member
Idea:

When in an information popup, like a user's Great Buildings, provide the ability to sort on the column headers. In this example by Name, Level, Progress, etc..

Have you Checked the Ideas section for the same idea posted by someone else? Is this idea similar to one that has been previously suggested?

I checked the Ideas section, but did not find any similar ideas.

Reason:

Makes it easier to analyze the data.

Details:

Clicking on the column headers in tabular data sorts the table asc/dec. Would conceptually work just like excel, or other spreadsheet tool.

Visual Aids:

Please see the attached image.

Balance:

I don't think anything would need to be balanced if this idea were implemented.

Abuse Prevention:

I don't see any possible way to abuse this.

Summary:

This would allow players to better view their data in all places where data is presented in table format.
 

Attachments

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
Your reason, makes it easier to analyze the data, makes me wonder what data you want to analyze and why. Is it your own data? Is it that of others?
 

Vger

Well-Known Member
Your reason, makes it easier to analyze the data, makes me wonder what data you want to analyze and why. Is it your own data? Is it that of others?
Did the makers of VisiCalc, Lotus1-2-3 or Excel ever ask users what data they wanted to analyze, and why?
Give people something that looks like a spreadsheet, rows and columns of data, and they are going to want to slice it, dice it, filter it, and sort it. Graph it and export it are optional extras.

Asking why someone wants to be able to slice and dice data is naïve.

Asking if it is worth INNO's effort to provide the tools to do that is a fair question. I would like more sort and filter and slice and dice options than INNO currently provides, so maybe a +1 on this.
 

Sheriff Of Rottingham

Active Member
Is it?

Do you really believe this proposal will be clear for everyone?
I honestly can't tell if this is for real or if it's trolling. The proposal is to be able to sort in-game tabular data, by ascending/descending order based on the selected column. I don't know how else to describe what "sorting" means, and the application of sorting in-game. Look at the attached screenshot. The data, and the method of presenting said data requires a scroll bar. Therefor it is more efficient to allow sorting to interpret the information. This was one example of many where we are presented with data, and it would be useful to be able to sort it. I believe it exceedingly unlikely that you have never used a spreadsheet application to review tabular data, and the sorting feature that is always included.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
I honestly can't tell if this is for real or if it's trolling. The proposal is to be able to sort in-game tabular data, by ascending/descending order based on the selected column. I don't know how else to describe what "sorting" means, and the application of sorting in-game. Look at the attached screenshot. The data, and the method of presenting said data requires a scroll bar. Therefor it is more efficient to allow sorting to interpret the information. This was one example of many where we are presented with data, and it would be useful to be able to sort it. I believe it exceedingly unlikely that you have never used a spreadsheet application to review tabular data, and the sorting feature that is always included.
I am trying to understand why you would need and use this. In what way would it make the game better.

I have never used a spreadheet application and I am sure I am not the only one. You are presenting it in a way where you expect everyone to understand what you are talking about and will immediately see how valuable it is. I think it needs explanation on how this can improve everybody's game. Why should we want to analyze the data. Playing for over 8 years and never did. How would it help me if I started doing so? Would this really improve everybody's game, or is it something only data freaks would like?
 

sknahsgnoL nehpetS

Active Member
I am trying to understand why you would need and use this. In what way would it make the game better.

I have never used a spreadheet application and I am sure I am not the only one. You are presenting it in a way where you expect everyone to understand what you are talking about and will immediately see how valuable it is. I think it needs explanation on how this can improve everybody's game. Why should we want to analyze the data. Playing for over 8 years and never did. How would it help me if I started doing so? Would this really improve everybody's game, or is it something only data freaks would like?
It's always nice to be able to filter/sort data in this game. Think about the filters in Event History and how much easier it is to aid from it now than it was before they were there. Or to see who attacked you...or who took your trades...etc. Just in the example the OP provided, it would be really helpful to be able to sort the entries alphabetically by name when checking other players' lists of GBs. Listing by progress would also be helpful at times. Other times it might be useful to sort by number of FP I've donated. Do you really need someone to explain this to you?

I rarely use a spreadsheet application myself, but that's because it's a pain to set up. However, in this case the developers would be doing the setup and we would just reap the benefits of their work by being able to simply click on a column head to sort the data in a table. It's a good idea and if the developers decide it is worth their time and effort to do, then I think it would make the game a little more user friendly. Keeping in mind how they revamped the Message Center, it seems that this idea fits with the direction the developers are taking with the information side of the game. I'm all for getting this idea to them and letting them decide.
 

Graviton

Well-Known Member
Would this really improve everybody's game, or is it something only data freaks would like?
"Data freaks"?

I'd bet there are more players familiar with spreadsheets than aren't. And really, I think the ability to arrange and sort the data presented in the game does suit everybody, whether or not literally everyone would use it. Not everybody uses a City Shield. Not everyone plays GBG. Not everyone does Settlements. You can choose not to use it, that doesn't make it useless.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
You can choose not to use it, that doesn't make it useless.
Not saying it is useless. I have seen plenty of players voting down ideas cause they would never use the suggested feature. Those are the ones you need to convince and that is why I think it is useful to give an explanation on the benefits of it.

Maybe I am a weird player, but I do not aid from history, I do not care who takes my trades and I never bother to look who attacked me. I don't see how knowing who took my trade, or who attacked me would make my game any better. When I look at other players GB's, they are listed by last activity. That's something I believe to be beneficial. I don't see how listing them alphabettically, or listing by progress would be any better. I am seriously curious about this.

GB's in inventory are listed alphabetticaly, but to be honest, I do not see that as really helpful. Rather confusing if you ask me. Arc for instance isn't under A, but under T, cause it is The Arc. Capitol is under C, cause it is not The Capitol. Can't say sorting is beneficial in this.
 

DevaCat

Well-Known Member
I'm neutral on this for now. But I have to say that the illustration of the player's GB list is for me quite unconvincing as a demonstration of the usefulness of this request. What data exists there that one cannot pull out at a glance? What is there to be analyzed? Or is it a case of not wanting to scroll down, but rather to simply click a button to see the gb you want to see?

You are also showing a PC view of the owner's GBG list, which is not presented in the same way for a mobile user.

But besides that, I won't call you all data freaks but maybe just members of the "if it's possible to do it I want them to do it" club. Posts in support so far aren't convincing me either. In a list of another player's GBs, already sorted by recent activity as Agent pointed out, each gb has a little progress bar next to it. I can see at a glance which ones are far enough along to be of investment interest. I don't need a spreadsheet for this.

If you can come up with a case of current data presentation complicated enough to warrent asking Inno to create a new tool to handle it and which would benefit more than members of the club, show me. I'm keeping an open mind, but inclined to vote no.
 

Sheriff Of Rottingham

Active Member
I am trying to understand why you would need and use this. In what way would it make the game better.

I have never used a spreadheet application and I am sure I am not the only one. You are presenting it in a way where you expect everyone to understand what you are talking about and will immediately see how valuable it is. I think it needs explanation on how this can improve everybody's game. Why should we want to analyze the data. Playing for over 8 years and never did. How would it help me if I started doing so? Would this really improve everybody's game, or is it something only data freaks would like?
For real???? You've never used Microsoft Excel, or Google Sheets, or any other spreadsheet application? OK, i'll go with it... In spreadsheets data is presented in tables. Tables are a presentation of data that consist of columns and rows. The first row in a table (that's the one at the top) is header information for each column. In FOE every table of data has this. In every other tool, and in most online applications, you typically you can sort in ascending and descending order on any column. The more records in the table, (the rows) the more useful it is to be able to sort on any given column. It is a generally accepted principle in the field of data analysis that if the number of records in a data set requires a scroll bar, then the ability to sort becomes increasingly valuable.
 

sknahsgnoL nehpetS

Active Member
When I look at other players GB's, they are listed by last activity. That's something I believe to be beneficial. I don't see how listing them alphabettically, or listing by progress would be any better. I am seriously curious about this.
Listing them alphabetically would enable someone looking for a particular GB among neighbors/friends to more quickly find it and lessen the possibility of simply missing it. When you are looking for BPs for a particular GB, and you have to look through 80+ neighbors and up to 140 friends, can you really tell me it wouldn't quicken the process considerably to be able to see them alphabetically? Especially with the players who have a couple of dozen or more GBs?
Listing by progress would easily show you which ones are closest to leveling.

Another point in favor of this proposal is that the current method of listing by latest activity is almost completely useless. Sorting the list by any other method would easily be more useful than the present method, and isn't that reason enough for any change?
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
For real???? You've never used Microsoft Excel, or Google Sheets, or any other spreadsheet application? OK, i'll go with it... In spreadsheets data is presented in tables. Tables are a presentation of data that consist of columns and rows. The first row in a table (that's the one at the top) is header information for each column. In FOE every table of data has this. In every other tool, and in most online applications, you typically you can sort in ascending and descending order on any column. The more records in the table, (the rows) the more useful it is to be able to sort on any given column. It is a generally accepted principle in the field of data analysis that if the number of records in a data set requires a scroll bar, then the ability to sort becomes increasingly valuable.
Yes, for real. I know how it works, no problem there, but I still do not see the benefit.

Listing them alphabetically would enable someone looking for a particular GB among neighbors/friends to more quickly find it and lessen the possibility of simply missing it. When you are looking for BPs for a particular GB, and you have to look through 80+ neighbors and up to 140 friends, can you really tell me it wouldn't quicken the process considerably to be able to see them alphabetically? Especially with the players who have a couple of dozen or more GBs?
Listing by progress would easily show you which ones are closest to leveling.

Another point in favor of this proposal is that the current method of listing by latest activity is almost completely useless. Sorting the list by any other method would easily be more useful than the present method, and isn't that reason enough for any change?
Current method of listing shows me which GB's are actively contributed to. If I am say looking for Alcatraz blueprints and it isn't in the top of the list of the particular player I am looking, it means there are no active contributions. Why should I sort it alfabettically to see if he/she has one after that? Present method is most useful the way I see it. Closest to levelling will also be at the top in the current situation if actively contributed. If not, it might be close to levveling, but without any action on it not likely to happen.
 

sknahsgnoL nehpetS

Active Member
but I still do not see the benefit.
And that appears to be your only objection to this idea. Fine. It's been noted. If you have nothing else constructive to say, why keep arguing? You've already shown that you don't care about the game being more user friendly for others, and this change wouldn't affect you at all if it were implemented. I would think a moderator would have more important things to do than perpetuate arguments for no purpose.
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
And that appears to be your only objection to this idea. Fine. It's been noted. If you have nothing else constructive to say, why keep arguing? You've already shown that you don't care about the game being more user friendly for others, and this change wouldn't affect you at all if it were implemented. I would think a moderator would have more important things to do than perpetuate arguments for no purpose.
So far nobody has been able to explain how I would benefit from this, so yes, that is an objection as far as I am concerned. That I am a moderator has absolutely nothing to do with this. As a player I am always curious about how to better my game, or the game. I don't see how this will help with that.
 

hootengoben

New Member
I can see how this is useful, but I'm a data freak for sure. I actually play this game with a companion spreadsheet open. If you're playing like me with an 80+ arc and sniping everything you spot, your GB list can get really long. Being able to organize it by player, or by the number of points invested can help you visualize how your points are spread out. I'd also really like to be able to flag or mark players on the list somehow to help keep track of them. Then I could separate hostile and peaceful donations among other things

I also look through GBs on higher players before I attack them; you can lean a lot from their building list. Putting the list alphabetically in that case would be useful.

I'm not a dev so I know it's a little presumptuous of me, but I would not like this suggestion from their side of the table. It's simply extra programming for the convenience of the top players (because new players don't have long enough lists to need to organize them). While I feel like my data collection gives me an edge as a player, I don't expect the devs to serve it to me.

So as a data person, sorting is always a plus. Overall, I don't think it's universally useful enough to prioritize.
 

Arrows of Time

Active Member
this could be very usefull, it would also make this game a wholeeeeeeeeeee lot easyer on the plus side, also the term data was not a very good way to talk about these players such as myself, sure i like looking at data, but only to improve myself and to only help me thus far, i know a lot of top players who use spreed sheets, ipenigunpat or foeelite, me, destroyer and many others, i am sure that this would be a GREAT idea
 

Flavius Belisarius

Active Member
It's always nice to be able to filter/sort data in this game. Think about the filters in Event History and how much easier it is to aid from it now than it was before they were there. Or to see who attacked you...or who took your trades...etc. Just in the example the OP provided, it would be really helpful to be able to sort the entries alphabetically by name when checking other players' lists of GBs. Listing by progress would also be helpful at times. Other times it might be useful to sort by number of FP I've donated. Do you really need someone to explain this to you?

I rarely use a spreadsheet application myself, but that's because it's a pain to set up. However, in this case the developers would be doing the setup and we would just reap the benefits of their work by being able to simply click on a column head to sort the data in a table. It's a good idea and if the developers decide it is worth their time and effort to do, then I think it would make the game a little more user friendly. Keeping in mind how they revamped the Message Center, it seems that this idea fits with the direction the developers are taking with the information side of the game. I'm all for getting this idea to them and letting them decide.
I see it as useful in your inventory where you could filter between building types (Level ups or modifiers) or ages without having to scroll through every page.
 
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