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Swap threads/unsolicited donations/sniping(?), is this wrong?

DeletedUser38090

This is a perfect, exact opinion the portion of the guild who feels this way described down to the very wording. Is this an issue you and your guild have discussed?
This issue hasn't really been brought up in my guild since most folks just use the swap threads for donations. What I've said is purely of my thoughts on what swap threads are.

I can understand helping them find power levelers but unfortunately that doesn't help the portion of the guild who want to be on the receiving end of the donations. Sending people outside of the guild to donate is viewed akin to taking free points away from them. If they weren't a member they could get donations- if they are a member they can't.

Unfortunately, like you've said, it will be the GB owner receiving the free FP who will be losing out the most with my suggestions, but my idea of running a guild is to make as many guild members' experiences in the game more enjoyable, and of course you cannot satisfy everyone. However, I think my idea of finding the print-hungry guildmate some powerleveling friends so he could get cheap prints, and ensuring that the swap members never get angry over these "snipes" makes more people happy and creates a more cohesive guild than having a free-for-all where the GB owner is happy with the free points, but the swap members are not happy, and the "sniper" blows through 270 FP just to get BPs that he/she already has.
 

DeletedUser13838

We are having that convo as well. In general, if I put a GB in a swap thread I keep it there for the level. I prime my other GBs for locks. My personal opinion is that GBs posted in a public thread are "public property". I will not look to lock a spot on a guildie's GB if not posted in a public thread requesting fps.
 

Freshmeboy

Well-Known Member
Really this comes down to players who believe they "deserve" a spot on a GB because they were first or had the most, etc. Look, if you are swapping fps you haven't "lost out" on anything other than the time to post on the thread. You could have easily placed those fps on your own Gb and allowed FREE fps to fill the remainder. So if anybody, hoodie, guildie, or friend GIVES you FREE fps say thanks and move on..If a player uses the swaps to prime his GB for Arc80 players to fill the top slots and that bothers you DON'T CONTRIBUTE TO HIS/HER GB.....
 

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
It sounds like this was an area of potential conflict not foreseen by your Guild, which, given the complexity of the game, is hardly surprising; I don't think anyone can anticipate all possible situations and circumstances, rather only address them when they appear.

I can't tell you how often that I will see a GB in a swap thread with three or four players with the exact same amount of fp donated to it, the only difference being the one at the top made their donation before the others below. I'm not above being tempted to "accidentally" donate 51 fp instead of 50, or 101 instead of 100 because the difference could be tens and tens of fp as a reward......but I don't give in.
That's not being a good Guildmate. And, fortunately, few of my Guildmates give in to the temptation either, which makes for a good Guild as a whole.

I can only advise that, going forward, your Guild come up with a policy on how to deal with this situation and what repercussions, if any, befall those who violate it if the Guild decides it should not be allowed.
 

DeletedUser29623

I just quit a guild I had joined recently because the top player was using the swaps to prime his buildings, then when first and second would get close to lockable, he would stop the swaps and let his friends take the spoils. He also sniped my Arc for minimum lock that had just been unlocked and was in the process of being added to by my donor (we are talking less than a minute from unlock to snipe here). Both of those situations I believe are wrong, which is why I left. Any deals should be completed before putting the building on the swap threads so people have an idea what is available and can choose to donate or not.

I couldn’t agree more. Too many guilds allow higher level players to exploit newer players in this way.
 

DeletedUser29623

Really this comes down to players who believe they "deserve" a spot on a GB because they were first or had the most, etc. Look, if you are swapping fps you haven't "lost out" on anything other than the time to post on the thread. You could have easily placed those fps on your own Gb and allowed FREE fps to fill the remainder. So if anybody, hoodie, guildie, or friend GIVES you FREE fps say thanks and move on..If a player uses the swaps to prime his GB for Arc80 players to fill the top slots and that bothers you DON'T CONTRIBUTE TO HIS/HER GB.....

Swap threads are how most new players get prints, and it’s a fine way to get established as long as higher level players don’t take advantage of them. As for refusing to donate to someone who exploits the swap threads, if everyone does this then the thread could be held up indefinitely by people waiting for a fairer trade to be offered. It’s just not that much to ask that a guild member who plans to fill most positions on a GB via the 190 thread simply STAY OUT OF THE SWAP THREADS, at least until the positions reserved for 190 donations are filled. Why would they even need to use the swap threads?
 

Freshmeboy

Well-Known Member
If you are a new player and looking for prints, aid everyone daily (too much work-too many clicks) self level your low age GBs so they are enticing to Arc players (WHAT..? Put in a super precious, incredibly valuable forge point without getting one back..? Are you out of your mind..?) and look for bargains in GBs in your hood, friends' list and guild mates (WHAT...? GIVE super precious incredibly valuable forge points AWAY...!?! Are you out of your MIND...!?!) Sniping bargain spots for 5 fps and a print at a loss is not a crime but a strategy that pays twofold-prints for future levels and inventory fps that are more powerful than bar points. Again, there are more ways to manage and level GBs than just swap threads and there are other strategies for gaining prints, putting the onus of evil on players who are willing to give fps for free is a shame when their actions only promote growth. That is what you are trying to do, right..? Grow..?
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
If you are a new player and looking for prints, aid everyone daily (too much work-too many clicks) self level your low age GBs so they are enticing to Arc players (WHAT..? Put in a super precious, incredibly valuable forge point without getting one back..? Are you out of your mind..?) and look for bargains in GBs in your hood, friends' list and guild mates (WHAT...? GIVE super precious incredibly valuable forge points AWAY...!?! Are you out of your MIND...!?!) Sniping bargain spots for 5 fps and a print at a loss is not a crime but a strategy that pays twofold-prints for future levels and inventory fps that are more powerful than bar points. Again, there are more ways to manage and level GBs than just swap threads and there are other strategies for gaining prints, putting the onus of evil on players who are willing to give fps for free is a shame when their actions only promote growth. That is what you are trying to do, right..? Grow..?
Maybe so, but all of this has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Reread the OP.
 

DeletedUser29623

If you are a new player and looking for prints, aid everyone daily (too much work-too many clicks) self level your low age GBs so they are enticing to Arc players (WHAT..? Put in a super precious, incredibly valuable forge point without getting one back..? Are you out of your mind..?) and look for bargains in GBs in your hood, friends' list and guild mates (WHAT...? GIVE super precious incredibly valuable forge points AWAY...!?! Are you out of your MIND...!?!) Sniping bargain spots for 5 fps and a print at a loss is not a crime but a strategy that pays twofold-prints for future levels and inventory fps that are more powerful than bar points. Again, there are more ways to manage and level GBs than just swap threads and there are other strategies for gaining prints, putting the onus of evil on players who are willing to give fps for free is a shame when their actions only promote growth. That is what you are trying to do, right..? Grow..?

This isn't really relevant to my post, fwiw. If you think there's no reason for a new player to use a swap thread, then there should be even less reason for an established player to use them. If the newer players in a guild want to use swap threads to help each other get prints, why not? It's an easy system to understand. But advanced players should not be using swap threads to prime their GBs for 190 donations.
 

Freshmeboy

Well-Known Member
Sure it does..it is also a reply to Laura about those poor young noobs who are desperately trying to get prints and rewards but the big bad mean ol' vets keep giving away those ultra precious super valuable fps for FREE..damn them anyways...
 

Freshmeboy

Well-Known Member
Criminy, the biggest complaint is that they don't get the top spot..Is this really about prints or is it fp rewards...? Face it, young players tend to bite off more than they can chew. Why do noobs believe that first place in a level 22 Traz is going to happen when they generate 36 fps a day..? Get real . I tell all new players to look for small Gbs to snipe even at a loss because it can be done NOW with a certain outcome..when your city starts pumping out 100+ a day then reach for the top prize...
 

DeletedUser29623

Sure it does..it is also a reply to Laura about those poor young noobs who are desperately trying to get prints and rewards but the big bad mean ol' vets keep giving away those ultra precious super valuable fps for FREE..damn them anyways...

Pay better attention and slow your roll. The vets I am complaining about are not "giving away those ultra precious super valuable fps for free." THEY ARE POSTING THEIR GBs IN SWAP THREADS, requesting swaps. I'm not talking about sniping, for crying out loud.
 

DeletedUser29623

My roll is fine..Check the OP...the dilemma is a player sniping for prints...and what to do about it..

Yeah, I know what the OP said, but that's not what *I* was posting about and you said you were responding to me:

Sure it does..it is also a reply to Laura about those poor young noobs who are desperately trying to get prints and rewards but the big bad mean ol' vets keep giving away those ultra precious super valuable fps for FREE..damn them anyways...

I don't care one way or the other about in-guild sniping and never expressed any opinion about it. This is the statement of yours that I was contesting:

If a player uses the swaps to prime his GB for Arc80 players to fill the top slots and that bothers you DON'T CONTRIBUTE TO HIS/HER GB.....

It is a different issue. It may not be what the OP was asking about, but it's been raised several times. It has nothing to do with anyone giving anyone free fps.
 

vimesfan

New Member
I prefer the principle that if you haven't locked a slot, it's not yours (yet). Other than detaching my GB from the town hall, I have no control over who donates to my buildings. Anyone in my hood could add. So what. It's FP I don't have to try to get, especially by trading some of mine. If a neighbor or friend or guild mate wants to lock in 1st on one of my buildings, I'm ahead already.

I have a level 80+ Arc on a couple worlds, and the guilds I'm in there try to grow their buildings through the sweet spot zone by having other 80+ Arcs place 1.9 for slots 1-3. Then we give other guild members in need of prints the chance to get slots 4 and 5, which even at 1.9 would give a generous number of prints. I can level a building in that magic range multiple times in a single session, and some guild members harvest a huge number of prints. I leveled my Traz last night 4 times on one world. A guild member who really needed prints took 5th on each round and ended up with about 5 prints per round at a net cost of 1 FP per print, plus a goodly number of medals. That's how we use the high level Arcs but still benefit the rest of the guild.
 

DeletedUser36572

We have found a point of civil contention in my small, close knit guild and I’m looking for outsider perspectives.

One mate hunting prints donated a large amount to another after he saw the building on the swap threads. That mate did not benefit from a FP perspective (this is not an arc sniping issue, no arc, FP return well into the negative) but did only lock the spot once he noticed other people on it from the threads. I will post the example:

View attachment 12048
This brought about a difference in opinion of swap thread etiquette and donation etiquette where most found themselves firmly on one side or the other.

Group 1 feels that someone watching the threads to pounce for prints is wrong and view adding any additional points than through swap threads as sniping guild mates. They feel spots on GBs should be earned more through vigilance on the threads than to those who have more FP to spend. The opinion is the same if it is contributed as a single large amount of points all at once or slowly over the level. All in all the view is donating more than the swap you take, or donating anything outside of a swap and knocking a mate out of a spot is not good team spirit.

Group 2 feels that if someone wants prints there's nothing wrong with donating to a GB in addition or outside of the swaps to get a spot. As the donator is not profiting from a FP perspective, they don’t view this as sniping. As receivers of donations and as people donating for prints they view donations as beneficial. They feel the FP of swappers is paid back during the swap and positions should go to who is willing to pay more for them. They view donating as a needed way to gain prints and donating as helping mates they would rather help mates with donated points than hood or friends.

I’ve tried to write this as equal as I could to not show my allegiance to whichever school of thought I fall into. Since discussing it both groups understand that no one was attempting to harm the guild or their mates but the difference of opinion as to what proper ettiequte should be going forward is alluding me.

I cannot think of a compromise between these two opinions and welcome anyones suggestions. I’d also like to know what your personal or guilds swap thread etiquette is when it comes to unsolicited donations between mates?

If I am interested in prints, that doesn’t mean I am interested in waiting around for someone to put their Great Building back in a Swap Thread just so other people who are too cheap to invest more Forge Points can have a better chance “nickel and diming” the dang thing for 5-7 days.

To complain about someone (who isn’t getting any points from swaps that they never made) investing what they want in the building of their choice ... Is just people who lost the bid trying to make it someone else’s problem.

.
 

DeletedUser27889

Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions. My separate thread idea went on deaf ears so all I've done is now ask anyone who donates to get permission from the owner and permission from the person they are passing, then post in main about it so people can avoid that GB if they wish.

I don't know if that would fix everything and does add a layer of burden to anyone in need of prints but if everyone is being transparent and open about it I can't really see how it would be taken negatively but then again I didn't see how this would have been taken negatively either.

Do any (decent) guilds just not have swap threads? That's about where I'm at with this issue, ripping them up and having people work out their own trades if they want.

I'm looking to set up smaller trading groups to shift focus away from swap threads as a primary source of trading. Apart from arc leveling groups I've never known small trade groups to be run by the guild itself but by members in it starting their own. Seems like it would add another burden to guild leadership monitoring and setting up private trades, but I suppose that's where were at now and if it fixes things so be it. I've never been a big fan of those groups as a player because I either liked the freedom of swap threads, using arcs to lock or sticking to 1:1 trades but I do have some familiarity with the common ones, the day of the week one, the X amount per week one but what are considered the more fair variations and rules to organizing small swap groups outside of arc groups?
 

DeletedUser29623

Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions. My separate thread idea went on deaf ears so all I've done is now ask anyone who donates to get permission from the owner and permission from the person they are passing, then post in main about it so people can avoid that GB if they wish.

I don't know if that would fix everything and does add a layer of burden to anyone in need of prints but if everyone is being transparent and open about it I can't really see how it would be taken negatively but then again I didn't see how this would have been taken negatively either.

Do any (decent) guilds just not have swap threads? That's about where I'm at with this issue, ripping them up and having people work out their own trades if they want.

I'm looking to set up smaller trading groups to shift focus away from swap threads as a primary source of trading. Apart from arc leveling groups I've never known small trade groups to be run by the guild itself but by members in it starting their own. Seems like it would add another burden to guild leadership monitoring and setting up private trades, but I suppose that's where were at now and if it fixes things so be it. I've never been a big fan of those groups as a player because I either liked the freedom of swap threads, using arcs to lock or sticking to 1:1 trades but I do have some familiarity with the common ones, the day of the week one, the X amount per week one but what are considered the more fair variations and rules to organizing small swap groups outside of arc groups?

I was in weak guilds when starting both of my cities, so I set up private swaps with other new players -- although only after one of them explained to me how swaps work! They weren't for specific buildings, just whatever we happened to be leveling at the time. You could maybe start a thread in which players could advertise their interest in setting up private swap groups. It does feel like players with few GBs and all under level 10 have different needs that players with high-level GBs, so one option is to reserve the swap threads for GBs under level 10, though you would probably also have separate threads for hot new GBs like the H Castle.
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
Do any (decent) guilds just not have swap threads? That's about where I'm at with this issue, ripping them up and having people work out their own trades if they want.
The guild I'm in with 60-80 members still have swap threads. The swaps are mainly used by those that don't quite fit in with private swap groups or just don't want a private swap group. It also allows those with a higher income to have a swap group and use the threads for additional GBs to be lvl'd on the side. The important thing is what the guilds needs are. As long as the threads have use and remain viable they'll stay in the guild.

If the smallest growth players aren't able to utilise the threads from too many members consider splitting the threads into player points brackets. Also look at how many arcs are in the guild. If you have a lot of lvl 60-80 Arcs you could have 1.80-1.9 threads.

For my guild there's just a blanket no snipes within guild and no unsolicited messages asking to get in a position prior to a GB being posted. That way no ones being pressured into giving the positions to a specific player and no one has to worry about whether it's safe to organise a deal on their GB with someone.

Private self regulated swap groups of 3-6 members are a good idea for those wanting to grow GBs beyond lvl 10 or reduce strain on the main guild swap threads
 
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Dreikhelm

Member
The guild I'm in (#2 on L) dropped swap threads because it was too much work for the leadership to police. We exclusively do 1.9x Arc donations and individual ROI swaps between individual members.
 
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