Swaps vs 1.9 (or 1.8)

[DeletedUser40311]

my guild has a 1.9 thread. I’m sure most of you have a good understanding of what that is. However, shockingly more than 75% of our guild is still using swap threads (the 1.9 has been around for months) we are trying to convince our players that 1.9 is better. People seem to think of swap threads as “I lose 50 and gain 50 so I lose nothing and have a chance at getting rewards.” But any good player knows the amount of fp you save from getting 1.9 contributions is incomparable to what you’ll get in return from swaps. I just want to know if any of you feel differently on this or maybe you agree and have a good example of how to explain it to my guild, several are still unconvinced.

Note we are trying to make this push because the guild as a whole will grow much more quickly, and it will put more gbs in circulation in the 1.9 thread.

For players wanting BP, we have also mentioned contributing 1.9 to 4&5 place, as the loss is minimal compared to the bps, but some people still seem to think the will lose more that way than swaps

Also I should add we are not advocating a removal of swap threads, as there no way to get everyone to agree, we are just creating more awareness to the benefits of the 1.9 and the possibility to mix the use of both

 

[DeletedUser37617]

My guild has 1.9 threads for those with level 20 Arcs or higher (and I am not quite there yet), but perhaps for this conversation you could explain how 1.9 threads work for those of us who are less familiar with them. : )

 

[DeletedUser40311]

A 1.9 thread is for anyone in the guild to use. They can self level their building until the first place position is lockable with a 1.9 contribution, post it in the thread and someone will lock it. Basically say on a gb the contributions rewards were 65 for 1st, 35 for 2nd, 15 for 3rd, 10 for 4th and 5 for 5th. (65+35+15+10+5) * 1.9 = 247. That means you would have 247 fp contributed to your building by other guild members completely free, you did not have to place any fp on someone else’s building, it’s just given to you

 

[Algona]

Also I should add we are not advocating a removal of swap threads, as there no way to get everyone to agree, we are just creating more awareness to the benefits of the 1.9 and the possibility to mix the use of both

Continue with that with the understanding that so many players in this game have nothing beyond the simplest grasp of FP Management and Acquisition Strategy. It can and does take months of hammering away, demonstrating, hand holding, and gentle persuasion to get some folk to look at anything beyond the simplicity (and inefficiency) of swap chains.

 

[DeletedUser33179]

Like so very many others, your guildies are conditioned to always feel they need to be in the swap threads, to a point they become dependent on them not only for winning fps but often as the only means of actively getting bps/medals (beyond just from aiding, incidents, etc). I bet most rarely peak their head out of the guild to search friends list/hoodies GBs for opportunities -- don't know how to lock a spot + by golly, it takes some effort/time.

I have a suggestion on how you may be able to get through to the swappers...

1- Focus solely on offerring to lock 1st place for them for every GB they're interested in. Talk about & provide education for that spot alone - thereby focusing their attention without sensory overload

2- Ideally, make a separate, simple spreadsheet/table for each GB, which lists what "magic number" donation amount will allow a 1.9'er to help them for 1st spot, covering only levels 1-10. If you see some guildies are taking a GB past 10, terrific - provide them with another table covering levels 11-20. Again, focuses their attention without overload + is visually presenting what they perceive as a more GB achievable goal.

3- Tell them to start in the swap threads as is their normal, familiar routine. When anyone reaches their magic number, go right to the 1.9'ers Here To Help thread. Make sure they know not to worry at all if they're over the magic number, that you 1.9ers understand on your own what to do.

4- Once 1.9ers lock 1st place, the swapper can leave the Here To Help Tread & continue on with the swap threads at their own pace. That quick huge dump of more fps at one time then the swapper's ever seen + the super-casual nature of the 1.9ers towards them that it's no big deal at all to 1.9ers (a mere drop in the bucket compared to what you each do daily)... well... it will leave an impression with the swapper, I promise. (to break their self-conditioned behavior they're going to need to literally feel this & see this in real time)

5- On their way out of the Here To Help thread, make sure each time the 1.9ers remind the swapper that the fps were free & encourage them to come back soon. And casually mention to each, "if you ever want us to give you more free fps to lock 2nd place on any GB, let us know." (Let them each choose their own pace).

6- Begin also locking 2nd place only on an individual basis when asked by the swapper. More than likely, 1.9ers are going to have to be available to do the calculations for swappers, as most of them simply won't get it & will just give up.

7- If a swapper expresses interest in learning more about the numbers/etc or wishes to primarily visit the Here To Help thread instead of swapping, will be most productive to then continue providing instructions, etc to them individually (not in a group conversation thread)

 

[DeletedUser40311]

Like so very many others, your guildies are conditioned to always feel they need to be in the swap threads, to a point they become dependent on them not only for winning fps but often as the only means of actively getting bps/medals (beyond just from aiding, incidents, etc). I bet most rarely peak their head out of the guild to search friends list/hoodies GBs for opportunities -- don't know how to lock a spot + by golly, it takes some effort/time.

I have a suggestion on how you may be able to get through to the swappers...

1- Focus solely on offerring to lock 1st place for them for every GB they're interested in. Talk about & provide education for that spot alone - thereby focusing their attention without sensory overload

2- Ideally, make a separate, simple spreadsheet/table for each GB, which lists what "magic number" donation amount will allow a 1.9'er to help them for 1st spot, covering only levels 1-10. If you see some guildies are taking a GB past 10, terrific - provide them with another table covering levels 11-20. Again, focuses their attention without overload + is visually presenting what they perceive as a more GB achievable goal.

3- Tell them to start in the swap threads as is their normal, familiar routine. When anyone reaches their magic number, go right to the 1.9'ers Here To Help thread. Make sure they know not to worry at all if they're over the magic number, that you 1.9ers understand on your own what to do.

4- Once 1.9ers lock 1st place, the swapper can leave the Here To Help Tread & continue on with the swap threads at their own pace. That quick huge dump of more fps at one time then the swapper's ever seen + the super-casual nature of the 1.9ers towards them that it's no big deal at all to 1.9ers (a mere drop in the bucket compared to what you each do daily)... well... it will leave an impression with the swapper, I promise. (to break their self-conditioned behavior they're going to need to literally feel this & see this in real time)

5- On their way out of the Here To Help thread, make sure each time the 1.9ers remind the swapper that the fps were free & encourage them to come back soon. And casually mention to each, "if you ever want us to give you more free fps to lock 2nd place on any GB, let us know." (Let them each choose their own pace).

6- Begin also locking 2nd place only on an individual basis when asked by the swapper. More than likely, 1.9ers are going to have to be available to do the calculations for swappers, as most of them simply won't get it & will just give up.

7- If a swapper expresses interest in learning more about the numbers/etc or wishes to primarily visit the Here To Help thread instead of swapping, will be most productive to then continue providing instructions, etc to them individually (not in a group conversation thread)

So I did pm one guy who said he was interested but got confused on the calculations. I pmed him and explained it. It took some effort but he finally got it and acknowledges that the method is faster and hopefully now knows how to do the numbers right. But gah lee I seriously didn’t know these calculations were that hard for people...

Edit: I’ll be honest some of that list might be useful but I only really had to use the pm, that was good advice. I think one on oneing with people has more effect than a broad message

 

[DeletedUser25795]

We use a mix:

190% Is good for players with mid/high arc's (owner saves FP's in the long run)
Swaps are good for people without ARC's or for people BP hunting and only have a few FP's coming in per day from their city.

I try and explain to people that swaps are like a lottery. Some think if they add FP's they get the same back but this only works if you end up getting in the top 5 of contributors (some can gain if they end up top and others will loose if they end up 6th/7th etc)

Forming 3 or 4 person groups works well for low ARC owners who each take turns taking 1st/2nd/3rd over time and therefore build up FP packs/BP's

 

[DeletedUser27889]

That's funny, I'm going through the same thing with my guild now. We have a 1.9 of big arcs only but recently tried to make a 1.8 for everyone else. Previously I had taught the math 1 on 1 to people as we were raising arcs prior to a thread so trying to teach the rest of the guild in 1 swoop seemed quite daunting. I broke it up into 3 parts with time for questions in between. First was introduction to the premise rules and why, second was the math where I even made a calculator they can use if they didn't want to learn https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ANaNElwed9b9fu--IVtY2IowDWgjtCwLdNMAFNtWmtw/edit?usp=sharing as I found the existing calculators a bit too advanced and would likely scare them off.

Then an example portion where me and a person from our 1.9 showed thread organization and locking to them. That was a week ago.. and no ones using it. Swap threads are still flying though.

It seems people versed in arc are very eager to switch to locks but now we have an even split, those who want arc have it and are getting locks no one else wants to make the change no matter how many people tell them how much better it is. Oh well not gonna force anyone to change. Sorry I can't help with my post since I'm facing the same issue, I more posted just to give you the calc since if my guild wont use it might as well find someone else who can.

 

[saknika]

We did a lot in my own guild to try and get folks to make the switch, but at the end of the day you aren't going to convince 100% of players (and thus 100% of your guild mates) about why locks are better than swaps. I will say though, as more see the locks thread in action and start their own go at getting a higher level Arc, more are starting to see why the locks thread is beneficial. So for some players, they don't get it until they really and truly need it because they're starting to get sniped.

I will say this though, when your GBs get to a certain point, you actually benefit from the swaps again to get FPs in there to help you make it ready for locks. It seems cruel to some, but the reality of the FP swaps is that you get the benefit of FPs on your GB. You give and get an equal amount... and when they're just general swaps it's a lottery on if you'll place (as opposed to a dedicated swap where you're presumably helping each other obtain BPs).

 

[DeletedUser27889]

I will say this though, when your GBs get to a certain point, you actually benefit from the swaps again to get FPs in there to help you make it ready for locks.

That's one thing we don't allow in my guild and we are otherwise very lenient. We have a fair mix of advanced and newer players this is seen as taking advantage of people in the swap threads but it also confuses the lockers if they are already on the building via swaps. Other guild leaders warned me about all the issues they had when they began locking with in fighting due to people priming in the swaps.

Our rules for the 1.9 and the (unsuccessful) 1.8, no priming in swaps, you may put a building into swaps after getting locks so long as their are spots still available. I think you may end up with quite angry swap threaders if people keep using them to prime.

 

[saknika]

That's one thing we don't allow in my guild and we are otherwise very lenient. We have a fair mix of advanced and newer players this is seen as taking advantage of people in the swap threads but it also confuses the lockers if they are already on the building via swaps. Other guild leaders warned me about all the issues they had when they began locking with in fighting due to people priming in the swaps.

Our rules for the 1.9 and the (unsuccessful) 1.8, no priming in swaps, you may put a building into swaps after getting locks so long as their are spots still available. I think you may end up with quite angry swap threaders if people keep using them to prime.

Maybe, maybe not. We've been pretty adamant from the start in our guild that the benefit of the swaps is getting FPs on your GBs, not getting rewards from GBs. So our mates are well aware of this, and have been for a long time (even before we had Power Arcs in the guild to make locks possible). I don't disagree with your guild's mentality, and I think many share it. Just throwing it out there that there is another way of going about it depending on how it's managed.

 

[Czari]

That's one thing we don't allow in my guild and we are otherwise very lenient. We have a fair mix of advanced and newer players this is seen as taking advantage of people in the swap threads but it also confuses the lockers if they are already on the building via swaps. Other guild leaders warned me about all the issues they had when they began locking with in fighting due to people priming in the swaps.

Our rules for the 1.9 and the (unsuccessful) 1.8, no priming in swaps, you may put a building into swaps after getting locks so long as their are spots still available. I think you may end up with quite angry swap threaders if people keep using them to prime.

Same with one of our guilds. We also have a mix of people with level 80+ Arcs and others just getting started. The leaders handled this issue by creating two sets of swap threads - one for those who plan to get locks on their GBs and one where people just use the swap threads and aren't planning for locks. It is working very well.

 

[Emberguard]

1.X is only worth using as your sole GB lvling technique if you can afford the expenditure. If your guild doesn’t have the players with the FP lending power then it won’t work.

Low GBs are better for swap threads as that allows the player to build up their packs so they can then reciprocate 1.X once they have the arc to make that viable. Mid to high lvl GBs need the 1.8-1.9 just so it doesn’t take forever

 

[Mustapha00]

I have an aversion bordering on pathological to spending FP on my own GBs. Sure, if my GB is >thisclose< to levelling, I'll put a handful of points to get it over the top. But to spend several hundred (potentially) FP to entice others to donate to my GB? I'll not pass judgement on them what do, but I what don't.

 

[RazorbackPirate]

I have an aversion bordering on pathological to spending FP on my own GBs. Sure, if my GB is >thisclose< to levelling, I'll put a handful of points to get it over the top. But to spend several hundred (potentially) FP to entice others to donate to my GB? I'll not pass judgement on them what do, but I what don't.

Since this thread is about 1.8 - 1.9x swaps, this is not a discussion about trying to 'entice' others to donate to your GB. It's about preparing your GB to ensure players who are waiting to donate to your GBs at the agreed upon rate have their giant donations locked in by you, the GB owner. This is not roulette, It's an agreed upon arrangement under a mutually beneficial set of very strict rules.

While you're free to hang onto your pathological aversion, you might consider running the math to see the thousands of FPs you're not saving by limiting yourself to conventional swaps.

 

[DeletedUser13838]

I have an aversion bordering on pathological to spending FP on my own GBs. Sure, if my GB is >thisclose< to levelling, I'll put a handful of points to get it over the top. But to spend several hundred (potentially) FP to entice others to donate to my GB? I'll not pass judgement on them what do, but I what don't.

It takes 1880 fps to level a cdm from 49 to 50. It pays 855 in rewards. If you can get everyone to donate a 1.9 you only need to put in 255 fp (13.5%). If instead you used swap threads with a 1.9 arc you'd to earn (100%-13.5%)/1.9=45.5% from your swaps to make your fp expenditure equivalent. It's really hard to do that consistently. Even if people are just taking the top 2 spots and you prime to 1.8 you are paying 344 fp (18.3%) to level your cdm and your breakeven ratio is 43%.

Once your GB hits the sweet spot it is much cheaper to self-level and prime GBs. Unfortunately it can take more time depending on who is taking your spots.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

my guild has a 1.9 thread. I’m sure most of you have a good understanding of what that is. However, shockingly more than 75% of our guild is still using swap threads (the 1.9 has been around for months) we are trying to convince our players that 1.9 is better. People seem to think of swap threads as “I lose 50 and gain 50 so I lose nothing and have a chance at getting rewards.” But any good player knows the amount of fp you save from getting 1.9 contributions is incomparable to what you’ll get in return from swaps. I just want to know if any of you feel differently on this or maybe you agree and have a good example of how to explain it to my guild, several are still unconvinced.

Note we are trying to make this push because the guild as a whole will grow much more quickly, and it will put more gbs in circulation in the 1.9 thread.

For players wanting BP, we have also mentioned contributing 1.9 to 4&5 place, as the loss is minimal compared to the bps, but some people still seem to think the will lose more that way than swaps

Also I should add we are not advocating a removal of swap threads, as there no way to get everyone to agree, we are just creating more awareness to the benefits of the 1.9 and the possibility to mix the use of both

I've never tried to push people out of other methods of spending their points. In general if you have a critical mass of people such that the 1.9 thread is used, and they see the thousands of FP being dropped in a blink of an eye it will create curiousity on its own and more people will join in and become advocates towards some of the holdouts.

In terms of being more efficient, it's only so because the prizes tend to go to those who have the high arc - and if the high arcs participate in swap threads that's probably also the case there as they have the FP to post more frequently on the buildings with good prizes to take top spots.

What it is is more fair to the building owners who're giving out almost the entire levelling cost in potential prizes (including arc bonus) and would quite likely be paying for it in swaps to low level buildings that give out little in prizes. If a high arc takes 1 and 2 after swapping for them it's just as many points refunded as if they paid 1.9 to lock spots - it's just the points go to the swapper and the building owner is guaranteed nothing from what they spent on others buildings. If they don't have an arc themself they're likely to get far less than they would've from setting up for 1.9 donors - but it's not like points were destroyed, they were just transferred.

If they do have a high arc they could of course make this up through their higher spending power and taking all the good spots they could in the thread and this *would* be efficient for them - but then there's also the wrinkles of snipers taking the good prizes on their high level buildings that are appealing to outsiders - transferring the points *outside* of the group - and the distress it tends to create when people see one or two high arc owners taking *every* 1st in the swap thread.

Ideally what happens is once a player has an arc into the region where it's really fast to level by setting up 1.9 locks they experience how cheap and easy they fly through to the 70s on it, and after that leave the swap threads alone for people who haven't reached that point yet. Some people *will* understand the math and move to it earlier rather than later and start taking the 10 FP to get 5 FP back and 5 blueprints deals as well as setting up their own buildings.

 

[DeletedUser38784]

As my guild is trying to move from swap chains to a 1.85. We hare running into two major problems.
First, we have 15 arcs at level ten without bps to advance.
Second in all post on the 1.85 the same two player take positions one and two. Then the building move in to the 100 and 50 fp swaps effectively making it impossible for lower players to be getting bps for arc. My guild has 3 or 4 players with arcs for 1.85 to be break even, 4 of mid level (40-60), 15 at level 10 and 10 below 10. None of the 25 lower level arc owner have the bps to advance past level 10 as of right now.

So as a player I see the good of the 1.9 for faster leveling but I am seeing the large problem of acquiring bp for players without high arcs.
I am as a player unsure of how people find snips for fp as I look three times a week at all friends eat, gab list and have in three months found one snip for a gain of more then 10 fps, mosh are break even.

 

[saknika]

As my guild is trying to move from swap chains to a 1.85. We hare running into two major problems.
First, we have 15 arcs at level ten without bps to advance.
Second in all post on the 1.85 the same two player take positions one and two. Then the building move in to the 100 and 50 fp swaps effectively making it impossible for lower players to be getting bps for arc. My guild has 3 or 4 players with arcs for 1.85 to be break even, 4 of mid level (40-60), 15 at level 10 and 10 below 10. None of the 25 lower level arc owner have the bps to advance past level 10 as of right now.

So as a player I see the good of the 1.9 for faster leveling but I am seeing the large problem of acquiring bp for players without high arcs.
I am as a player unsure of how people find snips for fp as I look three times a week at all friends eat, gab list and have in three months found one snip for a gain of more then 10 fps, mosh are break even.

Those players with the BP issues should be in a group together. Instead of being in the general swaps, they should trade 3/4/5's so that they can get BPs. So a dedicated swap -vs- the general ones. That way they're guaranteed to get the BPs they need.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

Or... some of the higher arcs should stop using swaps for 3/4/5 and just set them up for people to take at 1.9 (including special effort to make sure cheap 4s and 5s go to the people who need the prints). Not something you can really *make* them do - but if a few start, others will start to follow.