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syringes and needles

Discussion in 'Debate Hall' started by Hero Tactician, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. "Many illicit drug abusers inject drugs such as heroine directly into the blood stream with syringes or needles. For many users, sterile syringes are not readily available and drug paraphernalia laws in some countries make it an offense to distribute or possess syringes for non-medical purposes.

    As a result, many drug users share needles, which contributes to the spread of diseases such HIV and Hepatitis C, which have become near pandemics in countries and communities around the world. The spread of these diseases among drug users has become so concerning that, starting in the 80s, some activists and cities began opening needle exchanges. These government funded programs supply clean needles to drug addicts, so that they are at a lower risk of sharing needles and spreading diseases.

    Opponents argue that needle exchange programs condone illicit and immoral behavior and that governments should focus on punishing drug users, discouraging drug-use, and providing treatment for quitting.

    In 1998 a ban was placed in the U.S, preventing the funding of needle exchanges using federal resources, however in 2009 this ban was overturned with 46 states participating in needle exchange programmes as of 2006. Due to the controversial evidence regarding the efficacy of the policy whether the government should fund needle exchanges is a contentious issue in the U.S. as well as worldwide."
    ~ http://debatepedia.idebate.org/en/index.php/Debate:_Needle_exchanges
     
  2. Dominotx711

    Dominotx711 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Not sure where you are going here.........
     
  3. Hellstromm

    Hellstromm Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    He's attempting to initiate a debate regarding syringes and needles. I.e., what is your personal stance on this? Should they be provided without charge? Should they be prescription only? Should they be limited only to those with a documented medical condition requiring the use of injections? Etc...
     
  4. Diggo11

    Diggo11 Guest

    Those addicted to drugs are unlikely to stop using drugs due to an unavailability of clean needles, neither is it likely anyone else will decide to begin using drugs only since they can get the needles for free. Of course, theory doesn't always work so well in practise.
     
  5. well i think that providing free needles would encourage people to use drugs who would have been afraid of dirty needles before.
    but if you dont provide the needles for free then the already hooked druggies will just use dirty needles and spread dieseases.
    so maby a solution is to give away free needles in exchange for some information and their name maby give them a quick survey about their addiction.to help find more solutions and awnsers that can be implemented down the road.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2012
  6. Dark Lotus

    Dark Lotus Guest

    lol liberals!!!! Right now it is illegal to have sex with animals. If they made it legal tomorrow would you run out and get some sheep? Do you not have sex with animals because it is illegal or you do not have easy access to them, or do you not do it because it is wrong in your eyes? People will follow laws they agree with and break those they do not. I am not going to start shooting up just because I have access to a clean needle.

    I do not want my tax dollars to go to clean needles. I really do not care about their reasons why either. The only solution I care about is when it crosses over. If they wanna shoot up and give each other AIDS, then so be it. I am a pretty much a live and let live kinda guy. If they donate their tainted blood, or infect others who are not sharing needles with them. Then lock em up and throw away the key. I want my tax dollars going to more prisons.
     
  7. i have been a long time drug user myself. i smoke crysatalmeth but i dont shoot it up because of dieseases and aids so speak for yourself.loland i know lots of people sick with things like hippotitis C that could have been prevented with clean needles.drugs are an epidemic and just throwing people in prison isnt going to solve the problum.but by providing clean needles you could help save lifes when you start on drugs like crysatal its not if your gonna use a needle its when. and having a clean needle makes a world of differance i have seen people use dirty needles while i passed and have caught dieseases i just wish i could have made a differance and offered a clean needle in its place . because offering clean needles is just the first step in laying the foundation for bigger and more permanent solutions and it is definitally a step in the right direction.it is building on that foundation and finding more permanent solutions to the problum and thinking of new ways to help save lifes to help make the world a better and safer place
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2012
  8. Dominotx711

    Dominotx711 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    or maybe the solution is to find out why Americans are so determined to do drugs, and be proactive instead of reactive. Just a thought. Anyone know the cost value of clean vs dirty needles? That would be interesting for me.
    did you seriously compare needles to animals? I'd derep you if Hell would allow it.

    The way I feel about needles is this: The catholic church doesn't believe in birth control, but how many catholics are on food stamps. Seems to me, society is carrying the bulk of the cost of that "belief". So if you are saying no to clean needles on some principle, wellllllll, that seems a bit like chopping off your nose to spite your face. If it is more fiscally feasible to supply clean needles than care for those who are sick from dirty needles, well then it is a no brainer....I would think.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
  9. Dark Lotus

    Dark Lotus Guest

    No I compared the ludicrous concept that people who never did drugs, will now do them if clean needles are available to the ludicrous concept that people will have sex with animals if they were more available or if laws were changed. NEVER have I heard anyone say "You know I would love nothing more in life then to be strung out on drugs. Screw my life up, ruin my family and all the other wonderful things that come with shooting up drugs. It is just that you can not get a clean needle that is ruining it for all of us wannabe addicts".

    Hero, it is not that I do not feel for you or your friends situation. It is that I do not want to fund it. I have no problem with liberal ideas. I have a problem with the fact that they want to do everything but pay for their ideas. Raise funds, start a non for profit, do whatever you have to do to gets those that support your ideas, to pay for them as well. Quit trying to have everyone who feels you reap what you sew, pay for it as well.

    Make me up a list of the people who had guns placed to their heads and were forced to be addicted and I will cut them a check. It is so easy for liberals democrats to spend other peoples money. lol I found out who the "rich" are. They are every one making 1 dollar or more then the people saying "tax the rich" make. It does not matter if they make 10 million a year. They are not talking about themselves, they are talking about the people who make "over" 10 million.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2012
  10. Daniel

    Daniel Guest

    And without fail, yet another random jab at liberals.
     
    Diggo11 likes this.
  11. Hellstromm

    Hellstromm Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    (( Please stay on topic or I'll start handing out syringes, thanks ))
     
  12. Dominotx711

    Dominotx711 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    I'd say guns were put to these folks heads....both literally and figuratively...now put your money where your mouth is and pay up....
    I'd also like to note:
    As many Vietnam veterans know, substance abuse often goes hand in hand with PTSD. Among Vietnam veterans seeking treatment for PTSD, 60 to 80 percent have alcohol-use disorders, according to the National Center for PTSD. And things are not looking much better for our current troops.

    Hep C in vets

    The Robins Study

    Patterns of Addiction

    Now, I am the biggest basher of liberal politics, but neither will I sit quiet while my own kind play the same BOGUS and just as obnoxious card in the name of conservatism. So, being as Republicans ARE military supporters, I'd like to see how you explain THIS?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
  13. Dark Lotus

    Dark Lotus Guest

    How do I explain it? H-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y! And if ABC asked everyone in prison, they would all have a sob story to tell. And if they asked every hooker, they would have a sob story to tell. Everyone if the ghetto, on the streets, in a gang, had a car or house taken away by a bank, got kicked out of their apartment cuz they could not pay the rent, they would all have a sob story to tell. Then we have to throw in the BILLIONS of people who were born into things by being in the wrong country. Now google who owns ABC and NBC. Look how long GE had control of one and Walt Disney the other. Then look what their profits were/are. Surely they could have a huge impact on all these tragedies with the BILLIONS they make each year. Yet they do not, they live in big mansions and say people should do something about this. Then people watch it, then come here and log on to their computers, with their highs speed internet connections, as they watch all these horrible things on their dish networks or cable TV's, and turn their central AC down a little lower cuz 72 is not quite cool enough. Then they post how people should do something about it (as they adjust the gold and diamond rings on their fingers).

    Every time you point a finger at somebody there are three pointing back at you. The only difference between us is I am honest about it. Not my problem, to many billions of people in the world, I have enough family and friends who need a helping hand to worry about. A lot of "you" people, just like to say how it is "my" problem (as you do NOTHING but talk about it). Were are the all the post from people telling us they have seen the light. They realize all they need is one pair of shoes. They will not be around anymore cuz they are selling all their computers and smart phones cuz it turns their stomach knowing how they waste and so many others want/need? President Obama is real good at telling us the needs of others as he pulled in 7 million in a year for himself. The people here are just as good at saying it lol just not as rich.

    I want a list of documented cases of people who were forced at gun point and I promise I will cut them a check. In the meantime put your money where your mouth is and stop talking and start DOING!!! No more do as I say, not as I do attitude. I dont see how you can sleep at night. Wait yes I do lol cuz you watch The View in the morning and feel all good about yourself after seeing them talk about what all "we should do" to help people (as they pull away in limos).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2012
  14. Dominotx711

    Dominotx711 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Are you done grand standing? I gave you a list. 90% of your post made no sense to this topic, or if it did, you epically failed to bring it together in the end and your parallel was lost.

    FYI, I don't watch the view...however Pierce Morgan last night had an excellent program. Obama = catastrophe; Romney = devastation. Both options suck. Both are buildings on fire, and neither has what it takes to truly get us out of the hole.
     
  15. Dominotx711

    Dominotx711 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    hmmmm sorry to double post, but I am still waiting to hear back from dark lotus.....did I scare you?
     
  16. Diggo11

    Diggo11 Guest

    <begin uninformed assumptions to provoke an informed response>
    As far as I'm aware, neither Obama nor Romney have a documented stance/policy on the distribution of clean needles, nor how best to address the "drugs issue" as a whole. Probably figures though given the economy is down the toilet, that tends to lead to a few more pressing social issues to worry about...
    </begin uninformed assumptions to provoke an informed response>

    Back on the original topic: if you look at the original link Hero cited, there are a striking amount of points listed against the "cons". What should really sell everyone, from both sides of the political spectrum, is that there are no cons listed under the economics aspect of the debate; it appears to be unquestionably cheaper to distribute clean needles than pay the health costs of broke drug addicts seeking hospital stabilisation for various infections, notably HIV/AIDS. Which, btw, would make their whole argument that needle exchanges don't help fight HIV/AIDS completely bogus.

    The cons seem to have other weak points in their arguments, notably the section on crime. If we allow the assumption that people won't say "yippee, free needles" as the deciding factor in their decision on whether or not to take illegal drugs, then distributing clean needles should not increase overall drug use (and hence mitigated crime) at all, merely concentrate it. This has the effect of keeping users away from the majority of the public and within closer eye of the police, indeed not so great for some but best for the majority and the government's pockets. I mean, you wouldn't implement a needle exchange program in the middle of the suburbs anyway, would you? You would target the notorious red-light districts, where drug dealing would be just one of the questionable services on offer.
     
  17. Dominotx711

    Dominotx711 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    I have never had an opinion on this issue, mostly because it has never come up, but after reading this thread, I think I probably stand with the "pros". Not because anything has steered me in that direction, but because my opinions and values on other areas filter into my thinking onto this topic. IE: fiscal and common sense. This is one of those issues that will not erode my ethical nor moral belief system either way I go, so it would seem more prudent to side with those who find giving clean needles for the greater good and less cost to be a wiser choice. Besides all that, having come to the conclusion I have come to on this issue, Diggo's post then cemented with valid and logical points.

    Diggo :D I don't think either candidate has come up with a personal opinion on anything other than their thoughts on the other candidate in question :D....*sigh*
     
  18. nuhvy

    nuhvy Guest

    1. I'm all for making clean needles harder to access if anything it would at least reduce drug use which was the idea of the proposal in the first place....

    2. Another advantage is that we would be putting less metal and plastic resources to producing bunches and bunches of needles and syringes and use resources in other areas of the economy

    3. An unprovided con less needles = less production = less jobs slightly off topic though

    4. We would not have to worry about diseases like that getting spread to us through this decision or at least I won't it cant get donated in blood because lots of blood gets checked and a lot of people get checked before they donate (I don't know who made that argument earlier) but something that gets checked for twice has a highly reduced chance of hiding and I am personally abstinent both sexually and needle-ly

    so personally this decision wouldn't effect me

    and offtopic P.S. to dark lotus in the time it would take you to start your modem get on here and write your lengthy post you would have used up about twice the energy it would of taken someone to watch whatever show it is you speak of that im guessing is an hour long but at least ill admit to my consumerism :)
     
  19. Hellstromm

    Hellstromm Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Meh, free syringe/needle dispensation has been initiated in some places to reduce the spread of diseases (specifically HIV).

    So, what's the rebuttal against that?
     
  20. Dominotx711

    Dominotx711 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    I'd like some back up to this, because it has been proven to be false.
    The effect of Clean Needle Exchanges

    You do realize that hospitals can't reuse ANYTHING right? So for every person who comes up with a disease from a dirty needle, the hospital wastes more "plastic and metal" than a NEP right? Not to mention the chemicals and such right?

    Will not respond lest I get a nasty gram on skype for short cutting remarks......@%$^@%^%^@ at the mods :D

    and you know you can get AIDS by having an open wound and an AIDS patient bleeding on you right? Heaven forbid you get in a fight or an accident....just saying. How about Hep C? This logic is BOGUS!!!!

    till you get a girlfriend who isn't a virgin and didn't know her exes ex was a needle user 10 years ago...etc etc...
     

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