The Arc Has Ruined the Game

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
Is it just me or are the defenders of the arc always well established old players with high level arcs and multiple worlds with more arcs.
It's just you. I'm a none of the above defender of the Arc, so your "always" point just fell apart.

I never hear a new player excited about the day they will be able to get that arc.
I was very excited to go after and finally be able to build mine. I hear it all the time. Sorry, but maybe you're not listening hard enough.

The arc only benifits those with massive resources to start leveling it.
How do you suppose we get those massive resources? You think they're just handed to us? We work to earn them. Diminishing the effort is just a plain b.s. argument.
 

braeden12323

Active Member
My opinion on the ARC has been stated before, numerous times. I will state it again here, not to be repetitive, but because I agree wholeheartedly with @Salsuero

"The Arc Has Ruined The Game" is a false statement. Has the ARC changed the game? Yes. But, it has not ruined it, or even make it no longer fun to play. It has added a new dimension to a playstyle that was hard to accomplish before. It gave the ability to raise GB's to levels that would have taken months, if not years, to get to beforehand. No GB is inaccessible to any player, as long as that player has unlocked GB contribution. The ARC's influence is massive. It takes time and effort to level it to lvl 30, let alone, lvl 80.

In conclusion, the ARC is not the problem. It is the people complaining that they can't build up their GB's to the same amount, with the ease that a player with a high level arc can. I have barely started my ARC journey (lvl 7), and I look forward to finally completing the marathon that is leveling the ARC. That will take a while, but the prize will be worth it.
 

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
My opinion on the ARC has been stated before, numerous times. I will state it again here, not to be repetitive, but because I agree wholeheartedly with @Salsuero

"The Arc Has Ruined The Game" is a false statement. Has the ARC changed the game? Yes. But, it has not ruined it, or even make it no longer fun to play. It has added a new dimension to a playstyle that was hard to accomplish before. It gave the ability to raise GB's to levels that would have taken months, if not years, to get to beforehand. No GB is inaccessible to any player, as long as that player has unlocked GB contribution. The ARC's influence is massive. It takes time and effort to level it to lvl 30, let alone, lvl 80.

In conclusion, the ARC is not the problem. It is the people complaining that they can't build up their GB's to the same amount, with the ease that a player with a high level arc can. I have barely started my ARC journey (lvl 7), and I look forward to finally completing the marathon that is leveling the ARC. That will take a while, but the prize will be worth it.
Arc IS the problem. Not because it's unfair but because in one building by enabling levelling all the others it was one massive chunk of power creep. Before Arc most players would have to look at the stats of most buildings at level 10 to determine its worth and consider the work to get there. Now instead of having to make a choice of one or two GBs to take to really high levels, players simply do Arc first and then all the rest of them, and the decision on whether its worth it is made at level 60-80 for each building. Unless of course the lack of challenge that arises thereafter causes them to quit entirely (most just start playing less and less with a lack of anything meaningful to accomplish - there's a handful that just make their objective to have the biggest GBs but you can't pretend that's a game 'everyone' wants to play).

However it's a problem that isn't going to go away. It's easily the biggest income earner inno has as people rush to drop $200 to build one as soon as possible on a new world. And if you nerf it now that would be unfair to those who have not yet taken advantage of it to get a dozen level 60+ buildings as they'd never catchup to those who already have. So... we're stuck with it. If the was a new 'arc-disabled' world created for the sake of variety i'd be there in a blink because I do miss what the game was before the Arc showed up.
 

braeden12323

Active Member
Before Arc most players would have to look at the stats of most buildings at level 10 to determine its worth and consider the work to get there. Now instead of having to make a choice of one or two GBs to take to really high levels, players simply do Arc first and then all the rest of them, and the decision on whether its worth it is made at level 60-80 for each building.
I may be alone here, but I still look at the lvl 10 of a GB to determine it's worth. From that level I can see if I want to level it any further. I may have misunderstood your intent, but why is is that the decision on whether or not it is worth it made at level 60-80 a bad thing?

And ARC is the problem because it causes people to not want to play after they level their GB's and have no "challenge" anymore? There are multiple ways of challenging yourself in FoE, and not all of them involve building another city, with or without ARC. Attributing a specific building to the source of "FoE Burnout" is a cop-out. Sure, it's easy to place the blame on the ARC; but that does not make it the source.

If the was a new 'arc-disabled' world created for the sake of variety i'd be there in a blink because I do miss what the game was before the Arc showed up.
So you want to play in a world before GB's could be power-leveled? I played for 2 years before the ARC was introduced in November of 2015. I didn't get an ARC until 2017. I have played with and without an ARC. I miss nothing that I had before the ARC. I don't understand why "we're stuck with it". If you don't like the ARC, don't build it, but don't complain that it is a problem when it is not a problem.
 

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
I may be alone here, but I still look at the lvl 10 of a GB to determine it's worth. From that level I can see if I want to level it any further. I may have misunderstood your intent, but why is is that the decision on whether or not it is worth it made at level 60-80 a bad thing?

And ARC is the problem because it causes people to not want to play after they level their GB's and have no "challenge" anymore? There are multiple ways of challenging yourself in FoE, and not all of them involve building another city, with or without ARC. Attributing a specific building to the source of "FoE Burnout" is a cop-out. Sure, it's easy to place the blame on the ARC; but that does not make it the source.
Except it IS the source of a lot of the burnout. Need more troops? throw more levels on your traz. Need better sustain? throw more levels on your zeus, aachen, cdm, or orangery. Need more goods to burn on the maps? another 20 levels on a goods GB. There's very little work to achieve any of this - can be done inside a week if you're in a hurry - maybe a day if you've not been spending your arc proceeds. These weren't even remotely options before the Arc. Now they're commonplace and it's really boring.

So you want to play in a world before GB's could be power-leveled? I played for 2 years before the ARC was introduced in November of 2015. I didn't get an ARC until 2017. I have played with and without an ARC. I miss nothing that I had before the ARC. I don't understand why "we're stuck with it". If you don't like the ARC, don't build it, but don't complain that it is a problem when it is not a problem.
Competitively that's just not an option. I don't like the impact arc has on the game, but if it exists of course i'm going to build it - no sense handcuffing myself in protest over broken game design. It is technically correct in stating that the arc 'merely' changed the game - but to say for others that it isn't what made the game no fun is imposing your views on others. I can accept that some people love the game post-arc more than pre-arc. Can you not accept that I liked the game better before the Arc even though I'm someone who's made use of it (and will continue to)? And that simply 'not using it myself' doesn't change the impact it's had on the entire environment of the game? We are talking about a night-and-day change pre and post arc in the power level of players. People who just want to feel OP are thrilled by its existence. People who want to be challenged while still being competitive may not be. And thus for me, arc to some extent has ruined the game (and given the choice to play a version of the game without it existing at all, i'd jump at it).
 

braeden12323

Active Member
Except it IS the source of a lot of the burnout. Need more troops? throw more levels on your traz. Need better sustain? throw more levels on your zeus, aachen, cdm, or orangery. Need more goods to burn on the maps? another 20 levels on a goods GB. There's very little work to achieve any of this - can be done inside a week if you're in a hurry - maybe a day if you've not been spending your arc proceeds. These weren't even remotely options before the Arc. Now they're commonplace and it's really boring.
I think you are over-estimating the true benefit of the ARC.
I can accept that some people love the game post-arc more than pre-arc. Can you not accept that I liked the game better before the Arc even though I'm someone who's made use of it (and will continue to)?
I can and do, accept that opinion, I do not mean to impose my view on you, or anyone else. I was simply trying to explain my position, I did not mean to assume what you think or do.
We are talking about a night-and-day change pre and post arc in the power level of players. People who just want to feel OP are thrilled by its existence. People who want to be challenged while still being competitive may not be.
I agree with you on the night-and-day change pre/post ARC. But people who want to be challenged will not stop trying to be challenged after they have leveled their GB's to their own satisfaction. Like I said earlier, this game is not all about lvl'ing GB's.
And thus for me, arc to some extent has ruined the game (and given the choice to play a version of the game without it existing at all, i'd jump at it).
Personally, I would not play a world that would have no ARC's. I make use of the ARC, and it is helpful to my playstyle.
 

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
I think you are over-estimating the true benefit of the ARC.
Before Arc I was considering how far I could get chateau past 10 as the other (much less) broken building in the game. It was going to be a lot of work but it made a difference in how competitive i was able to be so it felt worth it. Others chose to focus on their traz. A few even did do the scraps of boost off military boost buildings. NOONE did all of the above on my world. Now the top 100 (of which i'm one) do do all of them and then some - your choices feel irrelevant, only the amount of time you're willing to spend clicking each day - there's already nothing i feel i CAN'T do and yet all there is to do is trivialise it more. Granted with time people would be more advanced anyways, but nowhere near where it is now. And every person i've talked to who has done the Arc journey to 80 attributes it as the most important step to increasing their own power (however long they were in denial before they did it). It's impossible to overestimate the true benefit of the Arc - without other buildings in the picture maybe. But it winds up being the "key to everything". Great buildings allow you to improve pretty much every aspect of your power in the game, and arc enables you to level them to ungodly levels much easier (to the point where even if your goal is to say <just> have a level 80 chateau, one SINGLE other building, the fastest path there is 1) get a level 60+ arc 2) now level chateau to 80)
 

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
So your problem with the ARC is that it makes it too quick/easy to level GB's?
What other problem would I have with it? That is its primary function. There were other treasury GBs before Arc but since they didn't level easily they weren't nearly so broken. And since a lot of the high arcs are in AF/OF the fact that they fill treasuries with junk is irrelevant. That you can easily level everything removes choice and strategy from the game - rather than specialising in being good at one thing you feel important you just become a god of everything.
 

braeden12323

Active Member
That you can easily level everything removes choice and strategy from the game - rather than specialising in being good at one thing you feel important you just become a god of everything.
Having an ARC does not mean you can't specialize. Not having an ARC does not mean you can't specialize. If anything, the ARC can make it easier to specialize in whatever you want to be the best at. The ARC does not make someone a "god of everything".
 

Stephen Longshanks

Forum Moderator
I miss nothing that I had before the ARC. I don't understand why "we're stuck with it". If you don't like the ARC, don't build it, but don't complain that it is a problem when it is not a problem.
I do. I miss the relative rarity of sniping compared to now. I miss guilds being the place to work on GBs instead of these cross-guild Arc clubs. I miss players working on the game as a whole. Building up one area, then working on another, keeping them all in balance, because that's how you built a successful city. (Unless, of course, you're a whale.) Now, almost everyone has one thing on their minds. BUILD AN ARC!!!!!! HYPER LEVEL THAT ARC!!!!!! HYPER LEVEL ALL YOUR OTHER GBs!!!!!! Talk about a one-dimensional, boring "game". And that whole line about, "If you don't like it, don't build one", is just so much BS. You can't get away from the changes that the Arc has brought to the entire game just by not building one. I wish it were that easy. And I would turn your last statement around on you, it would make it closer to the truth. If you like the Arc, build it and hyper level it, but don't say it isn't a problem when it clearly is a problem.

Incidentally, the "it's too late to do anything" argument doesn't hold water either, and anyone who was playing when they nerfed the ranking points knows that.
 

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
Having an ARC does not mean you can't specialize. Not having an ARC does not mean you can't specialize. If anything, the ARC can make it easier to specialize in whatever you want to be the best at. The ARC does not make someone a "god of everything".
For a specialisation to mean something it either needs to be hard and time consuming excluding other avenues by virtue of not having the resources available to do both. Or it has to exclude them explicitly through just being forbidden to do both. GBs at 10 tend to convey reasonable advantages. GBs at 60 tends to put you far beyond the point that any content in the game is designed for. Being able to do that for as many GBs as you have the patience to click your way through makes you effectively a god in the gameworld.
 

braeden12323

Active Member
I do. I miss the relative rarity of sniping compared to now. I miss guilds being the place to work on GBs instead of these cross-guild Arc clubs. I miss players working on the game as a whole. Building up one area, then working on another, keeping them all in balance, because that's how you built a successful city. (Unless, of course, you're a whale.) Now, almost everyone has one thing on their minds. BUILD AN ARC!!!!!! HYPER LEVEL THAT ARC!!!!!! HYPER LEVEL ALL YOUR OTHER GBs!!!!!! Talk about a one-dimensional, boring "game". And that whole line about, "If you don't like it, don't build one", is just so much BS. You can't get away from the changes that the Arc has brought to the entire game just by not building one. I wish it were that easy. And I would turn your last statement around on you, it would make it closer to the truth. If you like the Arc, build it and hyper level it, but don't say it isn't a problem when it clearly is a problem.

Incidentally, the "it's too late to do anything" argument doesn't hold water either, and anyone who was playing when they nerfed the ranking points knows that.
Agree to disagree stephen. I don't see ARC as a problem in the sense that it needs a solution.
 

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
Incidentally, the "it's too late to do anything" argument doesn't hold water either, and anyone who was playing when they nerfed the ranking points knows that.
The ranking point nerf was another beast entirely. You still got credit for everything you did before it, they just changed what counted. Your city worked as good as ever, and just a meaningless ranking changed and people started anew if they cared about said ranking with the new methods that worked.

The issue with an arc nerf is this. Someone who's already done the level 80 Arc run AND used it to level 60 a cape, chateau, inno tower, CdM, Zeus, Aachen, Traz, and maybe more and gets their arc nerfed may not snipe as much anymore but they still already have all those other level 60 buildings to help them in a post-nerfed-arc world. They will continue to increase their lead unchecked by virtue of hundreds of FP a day advantage over those who have not done the GB run already. Thus now not only are others behind, they have say twice the work the people who already have done it spent to get to where they were. And those people who have already taken advantage of the last meta can use that advantage to run to whatever the new meta is. Conversely losing ranking points had no impact on your ability to earn more ranking points in the future. Rather an arc nerf would've been like if they let people who gained billions of points from GBs in the old system keep their old system points, but new levels would only count in the new system (and thus noone would make up that billion point shortfall)
 

ITown

Well-Known Member
Arc kept me from quitting the game in 2016. There was nothing interesting to do in this game once you reached the end of tech, prior to the Arc. (Unless you get off on rapidly clicking autobattle on the gvg map).
 

Stephen Longshanks

Forum Moderator
Arc kept me from quitting the game in 2016. There was nothing interesting to do in this game once you reached the end of tech, prior to the Arc. (Unless you get off on rapidly clicking autobattle on the gvg map).
Great. So a really, really good game has been robbed of its variety and made totally one-dimensional, but it's okay because it kept somebody from quitting the game. Hurrah. :rolleyes:
 

sloppyjoeslayer

Well-Known Member
Agree to disagree
never did like that phrase myself. Either one has support for their position or they don't. So let us analyze.

"a really, really good game"

interesting double use of the word "really" here, is it really really? What is really really? Is it emphasising the emphasis? Or is it double emphasising the subject? Or perhaps it's really squared? Hard to say so need clarification however games, like art, are rather subjective in nature so "good" is merely what Stephen believes the game to be. But good how? Certainly not good for the starving children. Again clarification is needed, what is it good for, how is it good, relative to what etc.

"has been robbed of its variety"

This appears at face value to be hyperbolic, not to diminish Stephen's feelings, no I'm much more compassionate than that, as opposed to his positions regarding RQ's and GvG issues which he takes delight in thereby making me the better of character but I digress. No, he sees a true injustice here. The really², really² good² goodness² has been forever tainted by the black heart of greed, diminished now this game in its capacity to trigger those neurochemicals not much different than those of true love and "eating large quantities of chocolate".

made totally one-dimensional
Woe to you oh Earth and Sea
For the IG sends the beast with wrath
Because they know the FP's are short
Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast
For it is a players number
Its number is 272

I mean really, you can't disagree, really².
 
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