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The inevitable "Which GB next" question.....

I have more space than buildings, and am looking at adding another GB. So far I have my Arc at 69, Zeus, CdM, CoA, and TA all at 10, LoA and Galata for goods, and ToR. I have Inno, which allowed me to clear out all of my residential buildings, leaving some open space. My attack is 230/215, which is enough to be functional in EMA, where I intend to stay for a while longer.

The additions I'm considering follow; I have full BP sets for each, and a very supportive guild that should help w/ goods:

Cape - pure FP play, leaves some space for other small adders like towers and WWs
Frontenac - I don't really need more coin income, but the quest reward boost seems like it would be helpful
AO - FP income plus the critical hit....but it's BIG.
St Basil - How helpful is the defense boost in PVP?
Kraken - This one just looks like fun, and a few FPs to add on
HC - do away with all supply buildings? Cool. Bonus battle rewards? sounds interesting....

What say you all? Which of these are a good next step once the basics are all handled, and why would you choose one over the others?
 

Ebeondi Asi

Well-Known Member
First, you should level Arc up to 80. That is the most important thing you can do for your game.
Then after Arc 80 you should (if you fight) do Himiji Castle or,
If you negotiated do CF.
St basil is waste of time.
Cape is OK. adds daily FP.
Kraken is more of a toy, I would not recommend it for early game.
The one GB you did not mention is Alcatraz. it is very useful if you fight a lot. But is very big too. So better to wait a while, but should be on a list of must have GB.
 
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First, you should level Arc up to 80.
Understood, and in process.

THen after Arc 80 you should (if you fight) do Himiji Castle or,
If you negotiated do CF.
St basil is waste of time.
Cape is OK. adds daily FP.
Kraken is more of a toy, I would not recommend it for early game.

Good info - thanks!

The one GB you did not mention is Alcatraz. it is very useful if you fight a lot. But is very big too. So better to wait a while, but should be on a list of must have GB.
Yeah, that one's REALLY big. I think it will be more important once I age up a few times.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
The one GB you did not mention is Alcatraz. it is very useful if you fight a lot. But is very big too.
Yeah, that one's REALLY big. I think it will be more important once I age up a few times.
It is big, but it can eliminate the need for any other Happiness buildings, as well as eliminate the need for more than one Rogue Hideout and/or military barracks. Personally, I would go with the CF first and then Alcatraz. All the others are fine, but those two will have immediate impact on quest rewards and fighting ability.
 

Gypsy Grace

Active Member
Yeah, that one's REALLY big. I think it will be more important once I age up a few times.
I am EMA also and love my Traz! I was able to get rid of numerous military buildings and all the happiness stuff and it's just at level 5 right now.

I would say Traz first. If you really don't want to do the Traz now - then CF. @Johnny B. Goode is more experienced than me so that should be considered when making your decision.
 
I ended up going with HC. My reasoning is that it lets me get rid of all of my supply buildings, except for a handful of blacksmiths for quests. That will let me wrap up enough to space to add another event building or GB without having to wait for more expansions.

So now I have no houses (Inno Tower) and no supply buildings (Himeji), and I haven't needed to worry about happiness in a very long time, thanks to event buildings.. I don't have quite enough other stuff yet to get rid of goods buildings, but it's getting better, and with a few more levels on the goods-paying buildings it may get me there. Once I hit that point I'll clear out enough squares to drop in Traz.
 
There is no better proof that the Arc is overpowered than the fact that every time a discussion of GBs comes up, almost everyone's first response is "Arc to 80". Even if, as in this case, it isn't an answer to what's asked.
Why does that make it "overpowered"?

It's not like you can drop an Arc in and get it to level 80 in a week or ten days, right?

The Arc doesn't make it easier to fight.
The Arc doesn't make it easier to negotiate.
The Arc doesn't create coins or supplies.

What the Arc does is help your guild, and make it profitable (via medals and BPs) for you to donate to other players' GBs. That's it. Nothing more.

Now, if your guild rewards you for having the Arc80 with a 1.9 thread, then it effectively reduces your FP cost for more GBs - but doing the math it's a really long slog before it pays back.

To be completely honest, now that mine is at 70, I'm not sure it makes sense to focus solely on continuing to level it up. I'll keep some FP going towards it, but the payback delta between level 70 and level 80 is small enough that it doesn't warrant a "level before anything else and at all costs" approach, IMO.

Finally, I'll point out that the whole "1.9" and "level 80 Arc" construct didn't come from Inno. It's not a part of the rules, and there is nothing in the system that creates, encourages, or enforces it. It's purely something that the players came up with. The fact that it makes a difference in your ability to work within a guild has nothing to do with the Arc itself; it's a convention of play that has been widely adopted and thus has become a traditional rite of passage as a guild member - but that's all it is, and no more.
 

HEXylresorcinol

Active Member
It's not like you can drop an Arc in and get it to level 80 in a week or ten days, right?
Very possible in a generous guild. In an effort to get some new blood in their guild, one guild in Tuulech had some high Arcs boost up a member's Arcs from 8 to 80. The low-level Arc owner got his BPs by paying break-even cost on 5th place on a powerlevel. I got my Arc from 0 to 80 in 37 days from selling goods, and 27 days difference is peanuts in this game.

Arc is overpowered if you know how to use it. It took me 57 days to get my Arc to 80 from starting my city, so 2 months to get one GB to a high level. 4 months later, my HC is 58, Obs and Atomium are 80, Arc is 93, CF is 74, and 7 other GBs are at level 69. So 11 additional GBs are at "decent levels" in about twice the time that it takes to take my Arc to 80. You don't think that's overpowered?
 

Xerosaur

Active Member
Agree that it can be lifted quickly - The ARC is the 2nd LEAST COSTLY building to lift (Inno Tower being 1, and Cape being 3...). Fast Arc lifting can be about other people's selflessness and generosity. To keep it balanced for analysis, using PURE 1.9, here are the costs to the owner to lift his/her Arc, by decades of levels (starting @ 11):

11 - 20, 10 levels, Owner FP cost: 4,989
21 - 30, 10 levels, Owner FP cost: 2,894
31 - 40, 10 levels, Owner FP cost: 1,371
41 - 50, 10 levels, Owner FP cost: 632
51 - 60, 10 levels, Owner FP cost: 1,010
61 - 70, 10 levels, Owner FP cost: 3,018
71 - 80, 10 levels, Owner FP cost: 7,184

You can clearly see the edges AND the core of the Arc SWEET SPOT, where it’s ridiculously cheap for the ARC owner to move an ARC 10 levels between 41 and 50.

That’s why players gravitate to the procedure called "power lifting" or TRAINING. It's works best on buildings in the sweet spot. You don’t have to crush your bank, but if you PLAN carefully and secure enough bank OR have a generous guild to help more on the owner cost with a higher investment rate than 1.9, your reward from doing it this way is literally a 10% ARC boost for 10 minutes of TRAIN time.
 

Sharmon the Impaler

Well-Known Member
There is no better proof that the Arc is overpowered than the fact that every time a discussion of GBs comes up, almost everyone's first response is "Arc to 80". Even if, as in this case, it isn't an answer to what's asked.
Even though it was not in the question it is part of the answer. A low Arc will make raising the new GB needlessly expensive for the OP
 
Even though it was not in the question it is part of the answer. A low Arc will make raising the new GB needlessly expensive for the OP
True, but note that in my OP I stated that my Arc was at lvl 69 when I started the thread. 1.845 vs. 1.9 is not a tremendous difference in the time/FP count required to lift the new GB.

As an aside, less than 24 hours after raising the HC I got a 50 FP award from it; this more than makes up the differential from the last ten levels of the Arc. I've also cleared out some space and added a couple of fountains of youth, one of which spit out diamonds this morning. Yeah, that's just pure dumb luck, but at this point I'm well ahead by placing the HC without waiting to get all the way to 80.
 
Very possible in a generous guild. In an effort to get some new blood in their guild, one guild in Tuulech had some high Arcs boost up a member's Arcs from 8 to 80. The low-level Arc owner got his BPs by paying break-even cost on 5th place on a powerlevel.

True, but my experience so far shows that to be the exception, not the rule.

All four of my cities have an Arc. One of the guilds made my slog it out to lvl 30 with swap and 1.9 threads, then had a power levelling session that got me into the 50s....then back on my own with the 1.9 thread. That's taken months to get to 70.

The second set up some private Arc swap threads. 6 people only (guaranteed rewards), and you get booted at level 20. I'm now in the low 20s in that city, again, it helps but it's still months to get over the hump.

In the third, I found others and set up my own private Arc swap threads. That one's also working better than slogging it out alone, but still fairly slow going.

In the fourth, it took months and three different guilds just to find help with the Goods to get it planted, so I'm only at level 3.

Arc is overpowered if you know how to use it. It took me 57 days to get my Arc to 80 from starting my city, so 2 months to get one GB to a high level. 4 months later, my HC is 58, Obs and Atomium are 80, Arc is 93, CF is 74, and 7 other GBs are at level 69. So 11 additional GBs are at "decent levels" in about twice the time that it takes to take my Arc to 80. You don't think that's overpowered?
Can any of that be done without a Guild and/or 1.9 threads?

The Arc is only "overpowered" if you're working with other players. For a loner, it's worthless except for sniping, IMO.
 

Ebeondi Asi

Well-Known Member
Maybe Arc is not overpowered. rather too many Great Buildings are underpowered (by not also being at level 80+) ? On hte other hand most of the desireable GB are nice at level 80 and higher. So it is not Arc alone. just that the first one many chose to get high up is Arc. When you get all your GB up to level 80 they mostly all are pretty valuable.
 
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HEXylresorcinol

Active Member
The second set up some private Arc swap threads. 6 people only (guaranteed rewards), and you get booted at level 20. I'm now in the low 20s in that city, again, it helps but it's still months to get over the hump.
That is probably why your Arc progress has been so slow. It's cheaper to get your Arc at the lower levels through a 1.9 thread and then taking cheap p5s. Swapping takes a while especially if your members have different FP incomes.

Can any of that be done without a Guild and/or 1.9 threads?

The Arc is only "overpowered" if you're working with other players. For a loner, it's worthless except for sniping, IMO.
You could set up a non-guild powerleveling thread but that is probably not the answer that you were looking for. Anyways, to be a competitive player, you will have to be in a guild or a global 1.9 thread. Any player who wants to see fast progress in this game will have to work with other players. Not sure why that caveat is necessary.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
It's obvious that none of you were around before the Arc and hyper leveling. If you had been, you would be able to see what I see. Which is a totally different game dynamic from then to now. And it affects every aspect of the game. But if you weren't around back then, it's hard to explain the fundamental change in a short post.
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
Oh they can see it but they aren't interested in agreeing with your premise that the Arc is overpowered (because you are right anyone who wants to say it isn't but thinks the Arc 80 is pretty much the most important to get for a player means they agree). Not that it matters that ship has sailed and Inno can't change it without causing more drama than they'd care to at this point.
 
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