Thoughts about forum enhancement

[Lancer]

I've noticed how the forum is growing rapidly and everything seems to become ever more difficult to use it successfully. I have been fully aware of the fact that the forum is in need of a deeply refined and updated policy and guidelines. The basics will always stay but improvements can be made. I don't think flooding the forum in mods is a good idea either, although I do believe that one or two more active mods would be perfectly sufficient. I want improvements to happen almost instantly but that is never a reality. Instead, along with what I already know needs looked at, I would invite those of you that have clear conscious thoughts/opinions on what you (the user) would like to see done or enhanced. Actually, any thoughts on how we can better serve you.

Our select few mods all know this as well, but I would like to at least get the wheels turning.

Please keep this thread on-topic and respectful!

Thank You!

 

[DeletedUser]

What has been mentioned a lot recently is changing the layout of the main Proposals page so that the stickied threads with the guidelines, format and do not suggest list are visible immediately instead of having to scroll down to see them. One of the main reasons new Forum members post improper proposals is that they don't see those threads, but they do see the brown button for starting their own thread, so they just go ahead and do that. Frustrating to all of us.

Along with that, there needs to be quicker, more consistent intervention by moderators on these haphazard threads. Immediate closure if the OP starts bashing everyone who disagrees, move to Forge Hall or close the thread if there is refusal to properly format.

Another thought that has been put forth is a proposal template that must be used to start a thread in the Proposal forum. Maybe something along the lines of many web forms where there are definite boxes that must be filled in in order to be able to submit a proposal. Only once the required items are present is the button activated to post the thread. This idea and the reformatting of the layout are not my ideas, but they are very good ones.

Most of the rest of the Forum just needs active and consistent moderating.

 

[Freshmeboy]

Yup....build a better forum and they will come....

 

[Graviton]

I'll echo @Stephen Longshanks' post on two points: reformat the forum to move the Proposals section to somewhere other than the top of the forum, and add a Proposal template. The latter would go a long way toward weeding out stuff like one-sentence rants in the Proposal section. I'll also agree with @Lancer that the guidelines should probably be revamped.

As far as "immediate" action by mods, I don't expect that. You guys are volunteers as I understand it so I don't expect 24x7 monitoring. In fact I think if fewer of us experienced posters rose to the bait of an obnoxious noob then there wouldn't be such a perceived need for more monitoring. I find ignoring bad posts tends to make the poster go away faster than sparring with them.

 

[Agent327]

I know you mods are just volunteers, but I don't care. You wanted the job so do it right. I have been waiting for an answer on an application for more than 3 months now. I put in a complaint about a mod and still no answer in over a month.

Keep getting these inappropriate behaviour messages with the text:

"We cannot allow users to be abusive, overly aggressive, threatening, or to "troll". This does not follow our rules. Your message may have been removed or altered.

Your account's access may be limited based on these actions. Please keep this in mind when posting or using our site."

When I have a look at the message, nothing has been removed or altered, so what is the use of sending me these messages? Even better I get those messages for things I wrote over two weeks ago. If something is altered do you really thin I still remember what I wrote? I don't even bother to see what they aare about anymore.

If I report an insult it can still stay there for days. If you try to say something about or against a mod in a very normal way you are not allowed to do so.

To me it looks like you mods don't care and just go through the motions. If you do not care, why should I care.

 

[Graviton]

Keep getting these inappropriate behaviour messages with the text:

"We cannot allow users to be abusive, overly aggressive, threatening, or to "troll". This does not follow our rules. Your message may have been removed or altered.

Your account's access may be limited based on these actions. Please keep this in mind when posting or using our site."

When I have a look at the message, nothing has been removed or altered, so what is the use of sending me these messages?

As shocking as it may sound I think they're expecting you to be responsible for your own behavior instead of blaming the mods for not cleaning you up more aggressively.

 

[Agent327]

As shocking as it may sound I think they're expecting you to be responsible for your own behavior instead of blaming the mods for not cleaning you up more aggressively.

Try to refrain from answering if you do not understand what it is about.

This are just examples. It isn't about me. Others get these as well. How are you supposed to do things different when you don't know what the message is supposed to be about. If I call you a dickhead and get a message about appropriate behaviour and when I look the word dickhead is still there, how am I supposed to know you are not a dickhead?

Can give you another example as well.

If a proposal is DNSL and in the wrong format it will get a mod answer to put it in the right format. Why? It's DNSL!! It only gives the person proposing it falls hope. We all know that putting it in the right format will not lead to anything, so deal with it accordingly.

 

[Graviton]

How are you supposed to do things different when you don't know what the message is supposed to be about.

Come on, you're saying you honestly have no idea when you post something that could be viewed as inappropriate? I reject that. If you're told you crossed a line, you just stop crossing lines. Err on the side of caution.

If a proposal is DNSL and in the wrong format it will get a mod answer to put it in the right format. Why? It's DNSL!! It only gives the person proposing it falls hope. We all know that putting it in the right format will not lead to anything, so deal with it accordingly.

This I agree with.

 

[DeletedUser27392]

How many people need to tell someone dnsl or wrong format when that's done????

The answer seems to be around 5. We'll maybe 1 but usely 5 people say it one after the next

I would love to see a form to submit proposals that has to be filled out is suggested above

The dnsl rule on diamonds needs modified to say nothing that could cost inno diamonds. Is a company I have to believe inno wants ideas to make more money and doesn't want ideas that cost them money.

Their needs to be a rule against trying to kill proposals just because you want something else done first. CertIn people will try to kill every pros all until current problems in game are fixed because they don't want inno spending time on anything else

Last but not least something needs done about all the trolls especially in the proposal section. I know people who are afraid to post ideas just because they know how mean everyone will be. If someone has an ide that they think will improve the game and they tJe the trouble to tell us All and use the proper format then the least we owe them is a nice

-1 Sorry I don't like your idea

 

[DeletedUser31440]

A couple of things that I think would make a considerable difference with the forum and interactions between users and mods & users and users.

1. Remove the blurb about changes regarding the forums in the proposal guidelines. There have been multiple instances of proposals about the forums being put up to vote and moderators giving advice to forum users to make proposals regarding the forums. Allowing proposals about forums will let users make suggestions that will help alleviate other areas of strain on the forums and remove any friction between mods and users about why some rules are followed and some are blatantly ignored.

2. Remove the blurb about mostly generally positive reviews from the community. Apparently people are afraid to post positive feedback about proposals and the pushback that will come from those opinions. This ends up with proposals that have multiple people adamantly against the proposal and only a few people in favor, however the proposal is still put up for voting. Part of the reason why you see such adamant pushback against these proposal is because it is clearly stated in the guidelines that proposal should have positive feedback, this is an avenue to kill a proposal before voting. Take away the requirement for generally positive feedback and there is less reason to pushback against what you view as a bad proposal since the time to kill it is in the voting stage instead of the discussion stage.

3. Clean up the proposal guidelines and nominate your proposal for voting instructions to be consistent with each other.

4. I'm not sure if this is currently possible but I think that if mods could lock threads to new replies while leaving the original post up for editing, they could lock proposals that aren't in correct format until they are edited to be in the correct format. Along with that any replies to the thread should be deleted until the format is adhered to. The format serves two purposes here, first it shows that the OP is serious enough about the proposal to take the time to format it correctly and it also forces them to put though into the proposal and ensures a more flushed out proposal instead of a vague one sentence complaint/proposal.

5. Add a requirement for posting in the proposals section that you have read and understand the proposal guidelines. I'm not sure if mods can see who has voted on a poll, but it could be as simple as adding in a poll and only people that have voted on the poll are authorized to post proposals, then it would just be up to a mod to go through and delete any proposals from users that haven't voted on the poll, send them a message explaining why the proposal was deleted, and invite them to read the proposal guidelines and resubmit their proposal once they have understood them and voted on the poll.

 

[Agent327]

Come on, you're saying you honestly have no idea when you post something that could be viewed as inappropriate? I reject that. If you're told you crossed a line, you just stop crossing lines. Err on the side of caution.

I agree with you on that and I accept when I cross a line, but you can not expect me to remember what line I crossed two weeks ago with a post no longer being there to check. Also inappropriate is heavily depending on the mod you face.

You say you should have a view on it. Got one of those nice warnings cause I posted a Lilly Allen video of the song F you. Song was in the charts, was on TV, but here it is supposed to be inappropriate? How the hell am I to know that?

 

[DeletedUser31440]

Another one, remove the blurb in forum rules about no animated pictures. There are plenty of videos that have been posted by users and allowed, that rule is defunct.

 

[Agent327]

One mayor thing. Lock threads threads that people are no longer supposed to apply to. When an idea is up for voting, you can put there that you are supposed to reply to the original idea, but there are always idiots that will never get that. Lock those threads. Lock forum parts you should not answer threads.

 

[Graviton]

I agree with you on that and I accept when I cross a line, but you can not expect me to remember what line I crossed two weeks ago with a post no longer being there to check. Also inappropriate is heavily depending on the mod you face.

Then my advice is to not even approach the line. Stay far, far away from the line. This helps me: type an immediate and snarky reply if you must, then sit back, count to ten, and edit out the crap. Only then hit 'Post Reply'.

You say you should have a view on it. Got one of those nice warnings cause I posted a Lilly Allen video of the song F you. Song was in the charts, was on TV, but here it is supposed to be inappropriate? How the hell am I to know that?

We have no way to tell the ages of posters around here, there could be ten-year-olds reading this for all we know. Again, the best advice is to not even approach the line. A song called "F you"? Gee, I wonder what that means? Friend you? Frequent you? Freeze you? Come on, man.

 

[UBERhelp1]

What I'd like in the forum:

1. When new members join, there is a short 'tutorial' thread that they are directed to that tells them the basic rules, formats, etc.
2. The proposal format that others have suggested above. Any time I make a proposal I have to go to the thread, copy it, paste it in a new thread, and so on.
3. I'd like to post .gif files. For example, for certain building animation bugs, one could post a short gif showing that bug in game.
4. DNSL overhaul. I'd like to see certain things changed, for example any of the messages in this thread would not be allowed to be proposed.
5. I also agree with Agent on the fact that the voting threads for proposals should be locked.
6. And finally, a button in threads and conversations to go to the last message posted.

 

[DeletedUser]

When an idea is up for voting, you can put there that you are supposed to reply to the original idea, but there are always idiots that will never get that. Lock those threads.

They tried that and found that if they locked the voting thread then nobody could vote.

 

[Algona]

Good thread. Three major changes i see needed before anything else should be addressed.

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Organizing the forum layout in a way that support the rules of the forum. Specifics can be worked out, but i think:

The rules of the forum should always be the first thing folk see when they come to the forum with one exception: Notification that there are forum rules changes should be placed ahead of the rules specifying those changes.

Consolidate all forum guides (not to include game guides!), indexes, how to's, FaQs, getting to knows, as the second category seen.

Reorganize subforums so that they have appropriiate structure such as this:

changing the layout of the main Proposals page so that the stickied threads with the guidelines, format and do not suggest list are visible immediately instead of having to scroll down to see them.

and NOT having the Proposals sub forum as the top forum for user use, I'd recommend Bugs or Questions as 1 and 2 with Forge Hall, Guides, Proposals to follow.

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Rewrite the forum rules to clear up ambiguity and contradictions. Consolidate them. Periodically repeat this thread or something familiar to garner feedback from the posters.

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Train the mod staff to promptly and consistently enforce the forum rules. Periodically review and revise the forum mods Guidelines, on the assumption that there are Guidelines for the forum mods. If there are no such Guidlelines for the mods develope and implement them. While judgement and latitude need to be given mods, there is no excuse for the mods to flagrantly disregard the forum rules.

Implement a reasonable deterrence and punishment policy to stop chronic offenders and strive for prompt and consistent enforcement.

When a mod edits or delete posts, they should always be explicit on why they did so.

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The following is stuff for later on.

A suggestion. Grab a variety of forum posters for ad hoc advice as you deem desirable, possibly to review and comment on forum rules changes or whatever you think you may need user input on.

An editorial comment: Inconsistent and arbitrary modding is frustrating and scary. I will play within whatever forum rules INNO and the mods choose to implement, and I'll accept the punishment when i break those rules. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that INNO and the mods work within those same rulese in a consistent and timely manner.

Last but not least, I'd like to see a separate moderator led discussion on ways to address the social aspects of this forum especially this:

Apparently people are afraid to post positive feedback about proposals and the pushback that will come from those opinions.

With the concept extended to the entire forum, not just limited to Proposal feedback.

I deeply appreciate that you started this discussion Lancer. Thank you.

 

[Algona]

One more thing that came to me,,,

This should be a two way street! I think hte mods should be sharing with us what problems they see in the forums and any difficulties they have that we may be able to help them with.

there may be some circumspection needed by the mods regarding this. After all, we are all gamers here and, well, we will game any system. So if you do share wiht us, hoghly recommend you be careful?, discrete? vague? in what you do say. I want to be able to talk to us, but not get any information that enables us to game the forum rules and enforcement.

 

[Agent327]

They tried that and found that if they locked the voting thread then nobody could vote.

I know, but it can be locked after a vote is finished after x days. It will stop the idiots to give it a +1 months later.

 

[Agent327]

This is a very good example

All comments not about this specific post will be removed. If you have an issue contact a mod. Only comments about the change or opinion of the post will be kept. Any additional comments as of noon tomorrow, EST Will be given points to players making the comments.

Coming from

https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com...ty-to-the-guild-treasury-donation-logs.24686/

there was nothing wrong with those comments. They were sincere questions how it was possible that a proposal that had an overwhelming majority against it in the discussion still made it to the vote. No one was out of line there. Questions and comments were made in a respectful way.

So what do you da as a mod? You just delete and threaten!