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Total Ban on Abortion

Discussion in 'Debate Hall' started by mamboking053, May 17, 2019.

  1. yee yee boy

    yee yee boy Active Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2019
    thank u
     
  2. Alskah

    Alskah Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2019
    Yes, we have all expressed our views on this topic, ad nauseam. Maybe he should stick to the other thread he created on the subject and "wright" about his thoughts there...
     
  3. yee yee boy

    yee yee boy Active Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2019
    oof
    i dont think she likes me
     
  4. DreadfulCadillac

    DreadfulCadillac Well-Known Member

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    Jun 11, 2018
    not many on the forum do bud..
     
  5. yee yee boy

    yee yee boy Active Member

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    May 28, 2019
  6. zeus987

    zeus987 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014

    I hope you never give birth to a child with an extreme disability. They will take your whole life. You will either have to work forever, to keep them in a home, or you will give up your entire life for the child, a child that will never even know you are there, or ever love you. No one has a right to force someone to do this, what about the parents right to a life?? No one ever thinks of the parent in these cases. I have seen people do it, and god bless them, BUT I would never force another person to go through such a thing, if there was a way they could avoid it. Not that most would take the abortion option. I believe that abortion is murder, but I would never force my beliefs upon others. This is what you are doing.

    I do not believe in hurting the many, to stop the few bad. Most people are good and will choose the right option for themselves, not use it when it is not necessary. Have more faith in the goodness in people.
     
  7. Emberguard

    Emberguard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    The problem with saying abortion is murder, and then saying to allow it is to force our beliefs on them is you’ve then got a double standard for murder. If it’s “forcing our beliefs” for one type of murder to say it’s not ok, what gives us the right for any type of murder to enact justice?


    The only reason you’ve given for allowing abortion (which you agreed is murder) is to give the parents a way out of looking after their child (because of extreme disability).

    Since when did disability determine whether a person has the right to live?

    What about the reverse? The children with disabled parents? Should they be allowed the same convenience of offing their parents once old enough to self sustain?

    I agree it’s a terrible hardship to have to look after a disabled person and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. Twofold as that’d also mean the disabled person didn’t get to live a healthy life. But rather then ok’ing the murder of the vulnerable, why not seek them out to help them?
     
  8. AdrianHarbinger

    AdrianHarbinger New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2019
    Personally, I don't think the abortion thing will be settled until two realities are accepted by all:

    1. Human life begins at conception (a scientific fact at this point).

    2. There exists a hierarchy of rights which states that a woman's rights supersede those of the unborn child. This hierarchy of rights gives a woman permission to terminate her pregnancy up to a point to be determined by law.

    The result of this policy gives women access to safe abortions, but it doesn't allow them to pretend they aren't ending a human life for their own benefit. That will be for the woman to decide, but I suspect that decision will be substantially more difficult -- as it should be.

    I have no doubt that proponents of abortion would fight this all the way because it is that definition of life that causes them the most trouble. They want women to be able to take such a radical course without any guilt, but I just don't think that's realistic. I think clarifying the science and making women accept the realities of their "choice" will cause the number of abortions to fall, which is what everyone claims is their goal in the end. This policy would show who is sincere and who is not.
     
  9. mamboking053

    mamboking053 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    How do you ensure they are helped rather than passed through a notoriously abusive system? It seems like the idea is to help them, but the reality is that the concern ends with the pregnancy. Then it's just another hot-potato... I mean child.

    *
    I don't disagree, but I'm wondering how far this concern goes. It's easy to be moral, but when the effort is required to ensure it, what then?
     
  10. Super Catanian

    Super Catanian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2018
    Because, in all seriousness, I've met disabled children (autism, Down syndrome, etc.), and they love their parents dearly. They follow their orders, even something as simple as "follow me", and yet they're both really happy. The disabled child shows that they are actually very happy, especially when meeting new people. The parents show that they are trying their best to raise the child as a normal child. Even if that won't be 100% possible due to their disability, they work hard and teach the child how to cooperate. In the end, everyone is happy. I would definitely not have been in favor if they decided to terminate the pregnancy. The mere thought saddens me greatly.

    Exodus 21:22, 23 state,
    "If men should struggle with each other and they hurt a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but no fatality results, the offender must pay the damages imposed on him by the husband of the woman; and he must pay it through the judges. But if a fatality does occur, then you must give life for life,"
    When it says "fatality", it could refer to either the woman or the unborn child. However, these verses focus more on the unborn baby.
    What I highlighted in red mentions about what to do if the woman gives birth prematurely. You might already know that those who are born prematurely end up having "defects" later on in life, almost as if they were disabled. However, I don't see anything saying that it is okay to abort the baby if that were to happen.
    What I put in bold text specifically mentions what to do if the child died. But notice that it doesn't mention if the woman was hurt either by accident or on purpose. That shows that either way...
    Abortion is not okay.

    However, I do agree with @Emberguard in the case that it is only okay during a complication where life is at stake. Life! It is valuable, and only the couple can decide what to do if that were to happen.
     
  11. plinker

    plinker Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Worlds:
    Dunarsund, Walstrand
    As this is a really touchy subject, I believe that women who have this done will have to settle this in the next life. However as a Christian I DO NOT want my tax money used in any way for this. WIC program is good. But my tax money can be used for other things than to terminate a life, no matter what the situation.
     
  12. mamboking053

    mamboking053 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Well...I would prefer my tax money not be used to bomb people in other countries. I hope there is headway in this regard in the future...
     
    DreadfulCadillac and Emberguard like this.
  13. mamboking053

    mamboking053 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    I find this kind of snobbish. Who says a woman doesn't understand what she is doing, or understand the consequences when they ask for an abortion? No one is under the illusion that they are not terminating a life when they are having an abortion- least of all the woman getting the abortion. I think you're mistaking the terminology used in the political debate for the actual thoughts and feelings of the person getting an abortion.

    I'm always on the fence because, yes, killing a child is bad, but I'm not exactly sure that forcing the mother to have it is "good" either. And then I'm not even sure what "not allowing them to pretend they aren't ending a human life" means, but it sounds like a bunch of religious ass***** jumping in her face every two seconds trying their best to make her feel as horrible as possible. Basically the community taking the liberty to ride their high horse and totally invade someone else's private space. What I'm saying is that the attitude that a person must be made aware of and held accountable for their abortion gives me the shivers. Like so neo-theocratic re-education camp.
     
  14. Stephen Longshanks

    Stephen Longshanks Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    I disagree. Pro abortion arguments hinge on the contention that it's not life until after birth. And it's highly speculative to claim that the "official" view of the pro abortion arguments is not shared by those who take advantage of the opportunity to have an abortion. And if that view isn't shared by those who get an abortion, then both they and those who defend abortion are being highly dishonest.
    While technically true, the difference in degree is immense. Killing a child is immeasurably worse.
    Well then, maybe we should quit trying and convicting those who murder anyone. I mean, honestly there's no real difference between killing someone before or after they're born. It's always for the convenience or benefit of the one doing the killing, without any concern for the one being killed.
     
    22prentwil and barra370804 like this.
  15. plinker

    plinker Forum Moderator

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    Jul 6, 2017
    Worlds:
    Dunarsund, Walstrand
    War is killing people and breaking things. That is understood when you put on a uniform, or take up arms against another country. It has been that way forever. You have to live with that too. Why do you think LE gets paid admin. leave when they have to shoot someone? They HAVE to undergo 6 weeks (at least) with a shrink to make sure their mind isn't messed up from what they had to do.
    Abortion is a totally different thing.
     
    22prentwil likes this.
  16. mamboking053

    mamboking053 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Welcome to the world of 'I want to win a legal case'. Just like a job resume, people will over and understate things to seal the deal. I don't think everyone is completely aware of the consequences, though, but I do not think very many people do not believe they are killing a child by getting an abortion.

    Edit: I'm not sure it is. I think sentimentality makes it worse, but to force the mother to commit the act and the outcome of this act may be worse than killing the baby, but these are all maybe's. I guess it is best to let the kid live and then be passed through the system. The mother puts up with a year of pregnancy and the child still gets to live. That seems like a compromise.

    I think there is a difference... One life is coming out of another. In some way, that life is a part of the former and subject to the former. At least that would be my determination. The moment the actual separation takes place, I would say the life has become in and of itself it's own legal identity. But this is just my interpretation...
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  17. mamboking053

    mamboking053 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    I'm not sure what you are saying here. I'm saying that my tax money is spent on things I do not personally like and I hope that there is a future where this will stop and I can decide where and when to spend my money. I believe such an act would be far more powerful than any ballot vote I cast.
     
  18. plinker

    plinker Forum Moderator

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    Dunarsund, Walstrand
    You must remember, in the USA, you are guarenteed Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness
     
  19. mamboking053

    mamboking053 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    That's true. I edited my response either way. A messy deal to sit in on...
     
  20. Emberguard

    Emberguard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    Who said anything about waiting on the system?
     

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