• We are looking for you!
    Always wanted to join our Supporting Team? We are looking for enthusiastic moderators!
    Take a look at our recruitement page for more information and how you can apply:
    Apply

Twinkies:

DeletedUser

For many years, I only snacked on Twinkies (sometimes Ho-Hos, Chocodiles, Suzie-Q's, Cupcakes, and Snoballs). I hardly go with any other brand because of the taste. I was distraught when I hear that my national pastime will come to an end as a result of union stubborness and interference. I understand unions were created to 'supposedly' help the employee be better in their way of working life, however, they had hurt many workers. I am sure that Hostess was trying to find a way to keep those 18k+ workers employed and getting themselves out of any financial trouble that they may have. However, the union was stubborn in demanding they (the employees) get better wages and in the end, the employees lose. Unemployment line? That's another financial hardship to the country as a whole and the support is limited.
I'm not sure where you heard that stubbornness and interference of unions brought about the end to your national pastime. Evidently the source was incorrect -- the unions were not demanding a pay increase, they were rejecting a pay cut. Nor were Hostess' managers attempting to ensure all workers remained in employment, they were rather pulling as much revenue out of the company as they could get their hands on, leading to said financial troubles.

If I had owned a business, I would not even let unions set foot into it and push their demands: they can do that elsewhere. If I get employees, I will make sure they get treated right and paid good enough as we progress through. If we profit, everyone gets an incentive. If we don't, then we take a look, learn from it, and make better avenues to get us on a winning track. That's the way it should be. If a company is not profiting because of its worker base treating customers wrongly, should that company reward those workers (wage increases) just because a "union" said so? If that was my company, I would have given them the pink slip and hire those who can treat customers better.

For example, let's take Wal-Mart. If everyone that is employed there treated customers with courtesy, union or not, the customers will shop there more, and the company will get more revenue that might work on for wage increases for a job well done. I am not an employee of Wal-Mart, but I am a customer that only shops at a few of their locations (and will travel far as possible to get that type of service -- as I based a location on the courtesy of the employees that were given to a customer among other things) while disregarding the others (those that treat a customer poorly).
Unions only exist in industries and companies that put short term corporate interests before both the long term interests of the company and the reasonable interests of workers. "If" you owned a business, I hope your first call of action wouldn't be to boost management salaries by 80% as Hostess did in the same year they ceased (contracted) pension benefits, otherwise your employees would have every reason to treat your customers "wrongly".

As MC_Hammer detailed, make no mistake here. Hostess has been operating under the management of so called venture capitalists, sucking every last dime out of the company. It is an unsubstantiated assumption that employee performance was poor, but even were it so, that's a direct result of the mistreatment and pay cuts imposed by management. There was no "greater good" in Hostess, the company and all its staff worked to line the pockets of its executives -- the harder everyone worked, the richer they became. The unions calling it quits was inevitable, bakers just did it first.

well, here is my thought...
Nobody open your own business, because the masses think they get to run it despite the fact that it is your company. And if the bakers didn't like the company, they could have quit and gone elsewhere. Then the company would have had to either step up or fail. I know a few people who would have bowed and kissed the ground to be offered the job that the bakers union *issed away.
Meh, ya silly troll :p That's exactly what the bakers did -- walked away from collective negotiations, all quit and went elsewhere. Hostess subsequently failed to find these people who would kiss the ground to take uncontracted pay cuts, so their gamble failed, and management filed for bankruptcy. Surely you've found some better fallacy to parrot away by now hehe...
 

DeletedUser3052

Unions only exist in industries and companies that put short term corporate interests before both the long term interests of the company and the reasonable interests of workers. "If" you owned a business, I hope your first call of action wouldn't be to boost management salaries by 80% as Hostess did in the same year they ceased (contracted) pension benefits, otherwise your employees would have every reason to treat your customers "wrongly".

Nah, I am all for equal increase for all employees if we do good as a whole. Sure management needs a little incentive for pulling a little bit more in responsibility. But, if it were my call, I would weigh them in their performance for the time they are in the role. So, that way if they have some sort of case of not getting an increase while the rest enjoyed theirs (management and end employees alike), I will gladly show their performance review. Before my injury accident, I had owned a small freelance business in the field of cabling/audiovisual and home theater/telecommunication installs and upgrades. There were a few months we had done well and I divided the total among 4 people (as that is how many were on my team: 1 nav driver, 1 lead, 2 support installers) minus the expenses such as putting 20% towards supply/materials and 10% towards fuel costs (on a pre-paid card). On the times we don't do well (due to not that many people needing installs), we still divide among the 4 of us (there are other things we had done as well). Before we took a series of missions, we always have a morning brief in devising strategies to effectively manage our time as well as contingency plans in the event we had to go beyond our work scope. Everyone had the freedom of leaving at their own accord, but also had known if they done so, the clock will stop for them in the log system so that way I will be able to make calculations of time for the remaining people on the team who work.

But if time and circumstances allow me, I will do it all again. In that previous business example, I was the go-to man for getting leads. But corporations these days are so overrated because as you have said, they focus on themselves and done forgot the rest who got them that far. In a world that had so many people who want a job and be a part of working society, you have overpaid corporate members (those who are earning six figures a year) who probably do nothing more than sit by a desk, or go talk to people, or even perform tasks. Heck, an entry career employee can do all that but they get paid less.

If I was the union, I would have told Hostess, "sure we will take the pay cut because we need to generate money and help pay for the bills, but you guys will have to take an even bigger cut so your company can stay afloat until you can recover."
 

DeletedUser

That's all well and good Aeos, however it's not how Hostess operated. For a start, its management was definitely not paid on performance. Whether you measure performance in long term growth, revenue or shareholder value, Hostess was the complete opposite, initially filing for bankruptcy in January 2012. At the same time the company found itself in straits so dire it stopped paying pension benefits, five months before filing for bankruptcy, the management gave themselves an 80% pay rise and soon after tripled the CEO's salary. Its only incentive was to keep ripping treasures off the sinking ship before it was lost to the ocean, thanks to the drunk captain running it into an iceberg.

Unlike the executives, the union had already taken its fair share of cuts. It had already gone without pension benefits for fifteen months, a violation of contract that they willingly accepted to keep their employer profitable. The new deal put on the table sought not to bring an end to these "emergency" measures, but instead extend them. No pension benefits for a further 30 months, reduced by 75% when reinstated, scheduled cost of living wage increases cancelled in favor of an 8% pay cut, and massive cost hikes for health insurance. With that ultimate slap in the face to its loyal workers who had stayed on the past fifteen months, the union called it quits, and rightfully so.

It was Hostess that went under, with little surprise, not Aeos & Co.
 

DeletedUser3052

You can tell that I just want my Twinkies. It's going to be Zombieland all over again and I felt like Tallahassee hunting for them.
 

DeletedUser3

You can tell that I just want my Twinkies. It's going to be Zombieland all over again and I felt like Tallahassee hunting for them.

Well don't worry about that Aeos, a Chinese company is going to be buying the rights. You'll just be buying Tzinkweis and Dang Dongs instead.
 

DeletedUser

I remember when this happened...=/ RIP. I only have one box left of reserve twinkies I got. I'm going to eat one now. =)
 

DeletedUser3422

Too bad I am getting in on the tail end of this. I do believe an employer should be allowed to hire, fire and pay employees however the employer sees fit. I also support employees using their right to free association to create labor unions and apply pressure to the employer. This is the beauty of liberty, nobody is using a gun to force the other to do something unlike how it currently works.
 

DeletedUser5500

well, one thing is certain: that unions are tearing the business out of america..
 
Top