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Universal Medical Care -- Supreme Court Ruling

DeletedUser

With news this big, of course you'll have the media jumping at it to be the first to report it, resulting in a higher chance of reporting the wrong facts.

I'm quite relieved the Court upheld the bill. Anything that brings America closer to universal healthcare is good.
 

DeletedUser34

I have no problem with the concept, but is it sustainable?
AND I don't think it will solve the problem of jacked up health care prices. I think we just caused ourselves higher premiums. I predict we will soon be so broke we will never dig ourselves out of the hole. How does this pertain to this? The premiums will be so high, nobody can afford them, and so everyone will have to get on the government option...and how shall we pay for this huge idiocy? Not the program itself, but the greedy short sightedness of not capping profit of the companies offering the healthcare.
 

DeletedUser

Actually, although people always say that the problem is with the insurance companies that raise costs for premiums and what not (and it is true), it actually does not play as enormous of a role as some might think. The bigger problem comes from people. There's a reason why America is pretty much the fattest country in the world: we love fast food, we hate exercising, and we look to pills to solve our problems, which just creates more problems down the road. What really needs to be done is for people to stay healthy, but obviously that's not going to ever change, so people go for the next best target. I agree, healthcare reform should include an attack on insurance companies and hospitals that go over the top on medical bills, but it's only a minor solution compared to the elephant in the room.

Having said that, no health care plan will really ever be sustainable or work in the long run, IMHO. I suppose I can be easily convinced otherwise, but with people getting sicker every year, those costs are just going to keep going up.
 

DeletedUser

Dominotx711 said:
I have no problem with the concept, but is it sustainable?
AND I don't think it will solve the problem of jacked up health care prices. ...and how shall we pay for this huge idiocy? Not the program itself, but the greedy short sightedness of not capping profit of the companies offering the healthcare.
Click to expand...
What? A self-proclaimed "conservative" wanting to cap the grossly obscene profits of mega corporations for the logical benefit of the people's government? And has "no problem with the concept" of making healthcare mandatory, in order to protect all citizens irrespective of wealth, valuing their wellbeing over their freedom to be ignorant and shortsighted? I never thought I'd see the day…
 

DeletedUser34

:D
Yes imagine that. I have no problems with capitalism on almost anything else, but I do not feel that health should be for profit. Profit makes people act like gods....Look at HMOs. If I had my way, I'd make all healthcare non profit. I am so sick of hearing nurses and doctors say "if that law passes I quit" Well damn it quit then, if you are only in it for the money, I don't need you!!! I guess that is why I feel the way I feel about teachers and police and fire fighters as well.

It should be noted, I don't like the law itself, I don't mind the concept...this particular law I hate. They didn't fix the problem, they made more.

I do not however think this is close to being over, as the states can opt out of portions of it. Should states opt out, we are right back to square one, only worse off IMO because you get fined on top of it :p
 
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DeletedUser

I like the health care mandate.also i think how it was kinda funny how romney said he didnt support things like this yet put a similar type law in motion when he was a govenor what a politition.lol
but yea i like the law and i like Obama care also.anything obama makes is pretty much gold.:)i always look at two things when it comes to supporting things like this
(A)Does it support Obama Care?if yes then do it.if not then dont
(b)Is it in the best interest of the democratic party.If yes then do it if not then dont
 
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DeletedUser34

except Dark sounds rather conservative, where Hero sounds like a yapping liberal :p
I heard the coolest thing today....you know what happens to tea the longer it is cooked? It gets stronger. Keep that in mind.

On topic, I have a question, after all those who voted and applauded this bill, when it comes back worse than before, what do they have to fall back on? This law doesn't stop the core of the healthcare problem in any way shape or form...for that matter, it addresses none of the issues. And secondly, if some dumbbo wants to abuse drugs or non compliant with care, or has a serious illness and refuses treatment and that causes other problems, why do we have to foot the bill for buttheads like that? I just hate this law.....It leaves to much open. On a good thing, it is constitutional as a tax....makes life so much easier to get rid of it :p
 

DeletedUser

What is the tea thing referring to? o_O The Tea Party?

And as for the bill, I think the idea was to have universal healthcare, not so much going after reform on how business-like healthcare is. A lot of people would love if that were the case, but let's face it...if a bill was proposed to cut back profits on healthcare companies, do you realize the outrage that would pour in from the Republicans? Just the proposal of taxing the richest 1% gets them fussed over and angry...imagine how red their faces would get if reducing business profits was proposed, even if it was for healthcare. All the idiots protesting about Obama being a socialist would go crazy and call him communist or even more anti-American than they already accuse him of being now.
 

DeletedUser3

The plan initially proposed by Obama was intended to do just that, to resolve the healthcare issue. Unfortunately, Congress has a way of distorting intent.
 

DeletedUser

ok i am not familiar with healthcare but i have been doing some research on healthcare and this is what i have picked up feel free to jump in if i am wrong.i looked up universal health care insurance on they internet but i think that it may vary from what we have been posting like i said this is what i have managed to pick up.but please feel free to correct me though i may be wrong and probably am.lol.:)


(1)people without helathcare is around 50 million.so this will help them get the help they coverage they need and maby will help save lifes

(2) doctors will have more time concentrationg on healing the patients rather then be distracted with lengthy insurace procedures?
like malpractice and liability

(3) through cause and effect we will develop a centralized national database which makes diagnosis and treatment easier for doctors

(4) The medical services would encourage patients to practice preventive medicine and inquire about problems early when treatment will be light; currently, patients often avoid physicals and other preventive measures because of the costs.

(5) We will be able to eliminate wasteful inefficiencies such as duplicate paper work, claim approval, insurance submission.etc

(6) People will have an easier time starting their own business or working part-time if health insurance is covered.


(7)Patients with pre-existing conditions can still get health coverage.
 
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DeletedUser34

Daniel said:
What is the tea thing referring to? o_O The Tea Party?

And as for the bill, I think the idea was to have universal healthcare, not so much going after reform on how business-like healthcare is. A lot of people would love if that were the case, but let's face it...if a bill was proposed to cut back profits on healthcare companies, do you realize the outrage that would pour in from the Republicans? Just the proposal of taxing the richest 1% gets them fussed over and angry...imagine how red their faces would get if reducing business profits was proposed, even if it was for healthcare. All the idiots protesting about Obama being a socialist would go crazy and call him communist or even more anti-American than they already accuse him of being now.
Click to expand...
Yes the Tea Party. And I have to say Republicans my lilly white republican ump!!!! We are not opposed to the things you say, we don't don't believe in handouts. Make it worth while, and affordable, and more people can get it. Get rid of stupid lawsuits (accidents are just that accidents and NOT negligent in most cases) Lower profit margins so that health care isn't based on a bottom line, get rid of stupid state lines so there is more competition, etc etc....better than paying for some dummy who is coked up and has no interest in getting off it. Better than paying for some HIV/HepB who refuses to follow his care plan. I saw the other day a homeless man who was diabetic, and couldn't get his stuff, so was in a coma....two rooms down, there was a woman who was also diabetic, and refused to do the diet, and refused to take the medicine SHE HAD!!!! Hello...I don't mwant to pay for her....let her die IMO, if she doesn't care why should we. give her meds to the homeless man next door..

And finally, most republicans have no problems with taxing, but that doesn't solve the problem. Fix the IRS codes, get rid of the loopholes, and make owning a company more employer friendly. There is a huge difference in individiuals and companies. Leave the companies alone, tax the crap out of stocks, bonuses, things like that...perks of the high ranking employers (CEO's and CFO's etc). Learn to distinguish between the individual and the company. Put such a tax on them similar to the death tax, boom...income. Get rid of government waste, and clean up the hand outs.....(FYI, I am not blowing smoke on this subject, this is real thoughts :D) and there is no need to worry about raising taxes on the so called one percent. Republicans are just as stupid as democrats, but at least with republicans we are all about bettering yourself verses living the status quo!
Hellstromm said:
The plan initially proposed by Obama was intended to do just that, to resolve the healthcare issue. Unfortunately, Congress has a way of distorting intent.
Click to expand...
This I agree with. I was discussing with someone today in fact, that I am kinda glad neither party controls both houses. We need no more polarized politicians, but ones that have distinct opinions but willing to compromise, not "bargin"
 
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DeletedUser

Dominotx711 said:
We are not opposed to the things you say, we don't don't believe in handouts. Make it worth while, and affordable, and more people can get it. Get rid of stupid lawsuits (accidents are just that accidents and NOT negligent in most cases) Lower profit margins so that health care isn't based on a bottom line, get rid of stupid state lines so there is more competition, etc etc....better than paying for some dummy who is coked up and has no interest in getting off it. Better than paying for some HIV/HepB who refuses to follow his care plan. I saw the other day a homeless man who was diabetic, and couldn't get his stuff, so was in a coma....two rooms down, there was a woman who was also diabetic, and refused to do the diet, and refused to take the medicine SHE HAD!!!! Hello...I don't mwant to pay for her....let her die IMO, if she doesn't care why should we. give her meds to the homeless man next door..

And finally, most republicans have no problems with taxing, but that doesn't solve the problem. Fix the IRS codes, get rid of the loopholes, and make owning a company more employer friendly. There is a huge difference in individiuals and companies. Leave the companies alone, tax the crap out of stocks, bonuses, things like that...perks of the high ranking employers (CEO's and CFO's etc). Learn to distinguish between the individual and the company. Put such a tax on them similar to the death tax, boom...income. Get rid of government waste, and clean up the hand outs.....(FYI, I am not blowing smoke on this subject, this is real thoughts :D) and there is no need to worry about raising taxes on the so called one percent. Republicans are just as stupid as democrats, but at least with republicans we are all about bettering yourself verses living the status quo!
Click to expand...

This doesn't seem to go along with how Republicans are viewed today o_O Sure, perhaps decades ago when Republicans were more moderate, but today the party is all about lower taxes, business profits are good, and etc. That's why we have the Tea Party, deadlocks in Congress over raising taxes on any group, and people like Grover Norquist. I sure wish more Republicans were like you and held your views, but moderation seems to be out the window.

Your view that the left has lots of people who look for a handout and soak up taxpayer dollars is the exact same as the left's view that the right is full of racists that love their guns as much as their Bibles. Obviously it's not true for either side, and although there are people like that, it is a vast minority compared to the average person. So really, we can't rely on the 'people looking for a handout' argument.

As for leaving companies alone, it's exactly the reason why income inequality is at its worst. We fail to take action when companies take greed to the next level. You see nothing wrong with a company like General Electric paying virtually no taxes on 14 billion dollars in profit? Instead of tackling the problem at the top with the greedy and wealthy, we tackle it at the bottom, where the poor and jobless struggle to make a living.
 

DeletedUser

The constitution is to protect the people from the tyranny of its government. Not to dictate social issues like health care. Freedom of speech, to be judged by a jury of your peers, protection from illegal searches, the right to assemble and protest. It is pretty clear that it was intended to limit the power and control of a government over the people. It really does not matter if you are for this mandate or against it. The fact that the supreme court said it is constitutional should scare everyone. We know if you give them an inch, they will take a mile. The government just got its foot in the door on determining on what kind of protection the people really need. It kind of defeats the whole purpose of having a constitution that protects you from a government in the first place. It is like the fox mandating the protection your hen house should have.
 

DeletedUser34

Daniel said:
As for leaving companies alone, it's exactly the reason why income inequality is at its worst. We fail to take action when companies take greed to the next level. You see nothing wrong with a company like General Electric paying virtually no taxes on 14 billion dollars in profit? Instead of tackling the problem at the top with the greedy and wealthy, we tackle it at the bottom, where the poor and jobless struggle to make a living.
Click to expand...

You are slightly misinformed. GE left because of the Taxes, as do many companies, but also because cost of labor is smaller in other countries. You lump CEO's in with company profits, and I think the two needs to be separated. I have no problems taxing CEO's out the wazoo....but I think corporate taxes and employment taxes are assinine and obscene. If it cost to much money to hire an american, of course the company is going to move where it is cheaper...duh, that is only good business sense. If you are going to tax me so that welfare can keep sucking us dry as a country, of course I am going to move to a lower tax bracket. You keep raising the corporate taxes, do you really think these companies are going to come home? Try again, because nobody is that business stupid.
Dark Lotus said:
The constitution is to protect the people from the tyranny of its government. Not to dictate social issues like health care. Freedom of speech, to be judged by a jury of your peers, protection from illegal searches, the right to assemble and protest. It is pretty clear that it was intended to limit the power and control of a government over the people. It really does not matter if you are for this mandate or against it. The fact that the supreme court said it is constitutional should scare everyone. We know if you give them an inch, they will take a mile. The government just got its foot in the door on determining on what kind of protection the people really need. It kind of defeats the whole purpose of having a constitution that protects you from a government in the first place. It is like the fox mandating the protection your hen house should have.
Click to expand...

in some ways I agree, but in others I do not. Why? Because the states do not have to accept this mandate. They have the right to refuse it. Secondly, if your state or mine says ok to it, for fear of losing some money or something of that nature, they are a sell out, and deserve everything they get. AND finally, as it is labeled a tax, it is constitutional. For all of those who smack talk Obama for being a constitutional lawyer, and say he lacks constitutional knowledge, I'd say he just showed all the nay sayers up...he knew the key term to use to make it legal....can't say he is a stupid man.
 
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DeletedUser

That was kind of my point. The fact that they can use a "work around" is not a good thing. Once approved it just means they can do anything they want if they word it right. The constitution already took a severe blow with the patriot act. It has little value left now. I am not sure how much more it can take before it will just be classified as artwork when framed on a wall.

(Your point of a sell out is well taken, but) We have seen what happens when states want to decide what federal mandates they want to follow in the past. They lose federal funding for many things and have a hard time getting anything passed for their states in congress. Saying a state can refuse it is kind of like saying "you can always quit your job, if you do not like how they do things". It is not the company that will suffer in the end by you quitting. For every "help wanted" ad you find to replace the job you lost, they will have have 10,000 applicants for the opening you created. The feds neutered the states a long time ago. Values without anything else do not put food on the tables.
 
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DeletedUser

A few (probably offtopic) questions:

1) Why is this called "universal" medical care? Will it affect martians too once we find them? Or should it rather say "global" medical care so that the chinese can profit from this court decision? Or should this go down even one more step and be called "United States of America" health care?

2) Why do the St. Louis Cardinals call themselves World Series winners? Did they beat any other teams apart from US ones?

3) Why do Superbowl winners call themselves World Champions? Has it ever occurred to them that there are other countries playing American Football as well?

4) Not sure about the NHL and the NBA, but I'm sure the winners in those leagues get some spectacular title as well - maybe Gods of Basket and Global Skaters.....

Not really expecting answers, so back to topic :p
 

DeletedUser34

Dark Lotus said:
(Your point of a sell out is well taken, but) We have seen what happens when states want to decide what federal mandates they want to follow in the past. They lose federal funding for many things and have a hard time getting anything passed for their states in congress. Saying a state can refuse it is kind of like saying "you can always quit your job, if you do not like how they do things". It is not the company that will suffer in the end by you quitting. For every "help wanted" ad you find to replace the job you lost, they will have have 10,000 applicants for the opening you created. The feds neutered the states a long time ago. Values without anything else do not put food on the tables.
Click to expand...

it doesn't matter, it is always a choice. Texas decided NOT to take the money from the Feds for some school something or other, it was tough, but we worked through it. Same with federal money for clinics. I am not going to give you my ear so you can replace my hand. As I stated, I am not against healthcare reform, but this bill did nothing to reform it, it just encouraged more wealth by forcing us to participate in something that will eventually put us as individuals in the poor house, and NOT deal with the greed that will continue to fester.
 
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