Upcoming Changes to Diamond Packages Feedback

[DeletedUser36995]

Hello guys,

Please leave any questions you have surrounding the changes to our price structure. You can find the full list of changes in our announcement

Thank you,

The Forge of Empires Team

Here, in the United States, our wages have not increased since the 70's, but inflation and the base cost of living (cell phones, internet access, etc) has added significantly to the common man's bottom line. Many of us utilize FOE as a means of escaping the cell of stagnant wages in an increasingly expensive economy. What are the exact reasons for the reduction of diamond packages (but not of the price of diamond packages), for a game which requires internet access, and/or a smartphone? Someone needs to explain this to me. Are these diamonds actually mined, thereby incurring an expense influenced by real-world market fluctuations? Are they purchased from middle men, who have raised their costs, or reduced their allotments? What is it?

 

[DeletedUser26488]

"We are reviewing the products provided in our Cash Shops (both Mobile and Browser) on a regular basis and must decide whether any changes are necessary based on the current market and currency situation."
Dear Inno....There IS NO MARKET AND CURRENCY situation, these are not real diamonds mined in darkest Africa and shipped to Rotterdam, you are simply putting up the prices of playing the game to make more PROFIT for yourselves,

 

[DeletedUser]

It's not a psychological fact of life or games like the ones INNO produces would collapse.

The psychological fact of life that I stated is that if the impulse buyers keep playing the game, then they will continue impulse buying. Nothing you said refutes that. And the fact that it's a psychological fact of life helps keep Inno afloat, contrary to what you state here. If it were not a fact of life, then maybe it would hurt Inno's bottom line.

I'm saying this as someone who makes a living understanding psychologically driven consumer profiles; I only have a living wage because I continuously analyze how pricing and availability affect consumers on both a conscious rational decision-making level and subconscious or impulsive irrational decision-making level.

And yet you're still wrong about this.

 

[DeletedUser38090]

our wages have not increased since the 70's, but inflation and the base cost of living (cell phones, internet access, etc) has added significantly to the common man's bottom line.

Okay, this is inaccurate.
Real compensation has been consistently increasing for decades.
Real median income has been spiking in the last 4 to 5 years.
Real product compensation has been rising consistently with net output.
The real wages of production and nonsupervisory employees have also been rising significantly.

 

[DeletedUser40154]

The psychological fact of life that I stated is that if the impulse buyers keep playing the game, then they will continue impulse buying. Nothing you said refutes that. And the fact that it's a psychological fact of life helps keep Inno afloat, contrary to what you state here. If it were not a fact of life, then maybe it would hurt Inno's bottom line.

And yet you're still wrong about this.

I can promise you I'm not. I've given you a detailed breakdown of the psychological principles and market factors at play here, and you're still predicating your refutation on the "if" in "if impulse buyers keep playing the game" being by default true rather than taking into account shifts in economic play factors that will disincentivize them to play the game. For impulse buyers it's about instant gratification. Diamonds are a currency of instant gratification. If you raise the price per individual diamond by reducing the number of diamonds you get in a static priced package, then instant gratification becomes more expensive and happens more slowly for the same cost because the currency that speeds instant gratification is being provided in smaller quantities. Because instant gratification (if we think of it as a quantifiable metric) is being provided in lesser quantities (to the point of making it no longer "instant") to players who rely on instant gratification to maintain any sort of tether to this game, it will necessitate--for a not insignificant percentage of players--either lengthening that tether to a greater distance and not bothering to buy diamonds at all because beyond a certain point of increasing degree, slow = slow regardless of the degree of increased time between gratification milestones--or severing that tether altogether. So you have to take into account that for a quantity of players measurable enough to have impact on ROI without direct action to bring in a fresh player base, the "if" in "if impulse buyers keep playing the game" will be false.

You can see that already reflected in the number of impulse buyers/microtransaction players expressing their dissatisfaction and intent to cease diamond purchases altogether or else quit the game in this thread. Your breakdown of why their reasons for this don't hold water to you doesn't change that this is how they feel and this is the choice they will make. Not all, of course--some will eventually subside and adapt and decide they, as toads, do not find the heat of this particular frying pan as yet unbearable, even if they may hesitate on future market purchases and over time funnel less into incremental revenue streams; for others that "if" will be true and they will simply accept the choice to spend more to achieve the same results. There is no outcome that is 100% true for all players in any scenario. But you can't ignore real consumer sentiment in the face of "but I think it should be this way based on why I think the market change is valid." Your scenario is a hypothetical. Consumers expressing their dissatisfaction and intent to lengthen or sever their tether is real, and that you disagree with their feelings or reasons for these choices doesn't make it less real.

At the core of every impulse purchase is the question of "How badly do I want this?"

And sooner or later, as cost--whatever that cost may be, be it time or money--increases, the answer will be "not that much."

What we're seeing here is a price per unit increase that has a number of players saying "I don't want this that much," and shaking off sunk cost fallacies to discard attachment to the game.

But I also don't...really need to be right about the overall market conditions in a game where I already know I'm not going to play anymore. A theoretical argument about market metrics and internal decisions that we have no access to and that INNO doesn't intend to share with us won't change my disincentivized lack of interest one way or another. As one player of average spend, INNO won't miss me or my dollars; I won't depart with a negative opinion of INNO or the people who continue to play. It is what it is. Y'all have fun, or do whatever brings you the most satisfaction with this change. Take care, and for players that stay in the community...be good to each other.

-Ei

 

[DeletedUser30900]

Here, in the United States, our wages have not increased since the 70's, but inflation and the base cost of living (cell phones, internet access, etc) has added significantly to the common man's bottom line. Many of us utilize FOE as a means of escaping the cell of stagnant wages in an increasingly expensive economy. What are the exact reasons for the reduction of diamond packages (but not of the price of diamond packages), for a game which requires internet access, and/or a smartphone? Someone needs to explain this to me. Are these diamonds actually mined, thereby incurring an expense influenced by real-world market fluctuations? Are they purchased from middle men, who have raised their costs, or reduced their allotments? What is it?

Don’t use “we” if you only talking about yourself, plz and thank you

 

[Emberguard]

why would they be subject to any state and its tax laws? like i said, the internet is not owned by any one state...or any one government.

Why? Well the internet isn't some isolated bubble separate from the rest of the world no matter how much it might feel like it. It exists through the infrastructure that allows it to stand. So what makes the internet work? Physical businesses with servers, towers, cables, satellites in space etc. All of this functions together to make our technology work the way it does whether that be phone, internet, tv or radio. So while you say no one owns it.... not strictly true. The borders aren't as easy to define because of it being digital, but you wouldn't be able to access the internet outside whatever is natively hosted in your country unless each country had servers up and running.

There's also another aspect. If no one has jurisdiction over the internet at all then there's no crime on the internet. No matter what someone does or how much they steal from you by your logic you could never take anyone to court over it because no government can have a say in what goes on in the internet. Wouldn't matter if it's theft, paedophilia, breach of privacy or what.

So I go into a store, lets say WalMart. I see a TV I would like to have and its price is $500.00. I think it may be too expensive for me right now and I will come back in a few weeks to see if its selling cheaper. I mean, that stands to reason, right? I come back 3 weeks later and the same TV is now selling for $600.00. Am I MORE likely to buy this TV than before? Stands to reason that if I thought $500.00 was too expensive, then I probably would think $600.00 is too expensive. So, I leave, come back a month later and the TV is 700.00. Whoa...then its 800, 900, 1,000. […]

If you couldn't save up $500 over the space of 2 years then you were never going to buy that tv (Inno hasn't changed prices in 2 years)

Also if you keep seeing the price go up one of two things could happen. Either you decide to buy it before it increases again because you want the tv or you decide it's not worth it and do without. All depends on if you don't have the money or if you just didn't want to pay that amount before
​

[…] Dear Inno....There IS NO MARKET AND CURRENCY situation […]

While I don't know what the finances behind the decision are, the currencies of each country goes up and down between each other. So there is /a/ market and currency situation, I just don't know the specifics. I'd assume the currencies would be converted from whatever market is buying into whatever currency the company uses to pay its expenses but it's just an assumption.

 

[DeletedUser17584]

You just raised the price by charging 'tax'.
Who is getting the tax?
Surely you are aware that is illegal to collect sales tax and keep it.

 

[Emberguard]

While the conversation has become about tax, the actual announcement wasn't about tax it was about a price increase. Which is completely different and perfectly legal for any business to choose its own prices.

Assuming they charge tax then it'd go to whichever country is charging tax.

 

[DeletedUser31406]

Is there ever a decrease
Oh! Thats's right! Gotta make up for all the cheaters they allow *Serious eye roll

 

[DeletedUser18799]

balancing the amounts? what bullcrap. why not raise the amount on the other packages? This is just plain greed. Yes Inno needs to make a profit, why not just be honest and say you want to make more profit, and then give us something more than what we get now to justify the extra profit.

And it just happens to be the most popular packages that get the reduction in diamonds. I for one won't be spending as much as I used to. good move inno

 

[DeletedUser18799]

Okay, this is inaccurate.
Real compensation has been consistently increasing for decades.
Real median income has been spiking in the last 4 to 5 years.
Real product compensation has been rising consistently with net output.
The real wages of production and nonsupervisory employees have also been rising significantly.

You must watch Fox news or live in another country. If our wages had been keeping up with worker productivity the minimum wage would be about 21.00 an hour, as it is in other countries. take the propaganda elsewhere

 

[DeletedUser30900]

You must watch Fox news or live in another country. If our wages had been keeping up with worker productivity the minimum wage would be about 21.00 an hour, as it is in other countries. take the propaganda elsewhere

Bring your socialism bs somewhere else

 

[DeletedUser27889]

I really didn't expect the backlash this is getting. Like everything else either price goes up or offerings get smaller. Considering I don't think they want to price anyone out of buying - quantity gets lowered.

I buy an $80 pack once a year, typically during summer event, not because I need the diamonds but because I want to support the game. I buy when they offer the free event currency, I've never received an offer for more diamonds in the 3 years I've been playing. $80 a year works out to less than $7 per month and I'd say I'm certainly getting my $7 worth.

Someone brought up the point that in America they don't pay us enough... well in Germany they do. If Americans want to see themselves and their neighbors getting paid liveable wages they can't throw a fit every time a price gets raised or keep shopping for bare bottom prices on imported Chinese goods at Walmart which relies on government substitutes to support it's workforce. You can't blame a German company for an American crisis.

As someone who buys diamonds, personally I think they would see more purchases if they had more things worth spending them on. I get the diamond expansions, I've bought a BP once or twice, I've resurrected a handful of troops over the years, I've sped up the buildings and rushed scouts probably 10 times in 3 years and I've gotten a bit addicted to the 5 diamond collect all button. I reserve the diamond spending for things that are small and reasonable, the only big ticket things worth it are occasional events where you need more here or there. The expansions in the settlements would have been worth it if they carried over, they aren't because they don't so I don't buy them. Without diamonds providing real advantages or perks I think most people are in the same boat I am. We would give you more money if you gave us things worthy of buying.

 

[DeletedUser26574]

you say your prices havent changed...WRONG.. come on, your giving us less diamonds, we are not stupid !!.. but you didnt tell us WHY !!! I like to purchase diamonds..NOT anymore, I thought it was too much as it was... now less diamonds .. guess I will wait for sale and have to play less... your ruining a good game... way to go INNO

 

[DeletedUser37497]

Just for collective clarity on a couple of questions raised by a few in here. We charge Sales Tax on purchases made in some US states, who have elected to charge Sales Tax to online purchases. This is due to a Supreme Court ruling which fairly recently came in to force. We're literally just following the law You can read the Wikipedia article on the ruling: South Dakota vs. Wayfair, Inc.

In terms of the tangential topic this is starting to take, its an interesting conversation to have, but perhaps not the place to have it. You're welcome to discuss Economic theory in our Debate Hall. I'll be asking my forum team to steer the topic back to the price changes specifically from now.

In terms of the suggestion by a few that Diamonds don't cost anything as a virtual currency, this is in the strictest terms true, of course it is, but that doesn't mean they aren't worth anything. Diamonds a part of our revenue stream, and keep the employees employed, the offices powered, and the content cycle we deliver continuing.

Without premium spenders, Free to Play games, such as Forge, in general simply wouldn't exist. The entire business model is built on the concept of offering a free to play game, which players can optionally make purchases to enhance their experience. As explained in the announcement, this is the first price increase since 2017, and it isn't unreasonable for us to choose to do this.

Thanks again, please also note I am reading every post, and this really isn't designed to placate outrage. We understand these changes aren't popular.

Richard

 

[Lancer]

Please stay on topic and not turn this into a debate over politics.

 

[Algona]

we are not stupid !!.

Not quite sure how anyone reading this thread or this forum could say that with a straight face.

Dear INNO:

I hope the price change results in the co(i)ntinued fine product we have all grown to love.

kthnxbai SeeWhatIDidThere?IMadeAFunny!

 

[DeletedUser38090]

Not quite sure how anyone reading this thread or this forum could say that with a straight face.

I am stupid! Come join the stupid train with me! All Aboard!

 

[DeletedUser36020]

As a college student that could at most afford to put down 20 dollars a couple times a year this hurts. Will i continue putting down money on the game? Depends on what deals are available. I only ever bought when there were bonus deals anyway.

What i can say is that I don't begrudge the devs this change. In general its actually a good sign for the longevity of the game. If they werent planning on keeping this thing going they would keep diamonds cheaper but cut staff. Instead they are aiming to keep staff well paid. That's not bad.

Also when u look at the availability of premium currency and all content for that matter is incredibly generous. Most mobile games these days are far less kind. A star wars game i played charges around 200 dollars if you want to get a new character at release. And you are looking at 6 months of grinding if you don't want to pay... all for 1 character that wouldn't even be useable without its gear. Anyway I'm on a tangent now....

Thanks for the game and good communication!