DeletedUser35158
Evidently, you all (INNO) need a raise - how about raising the price and raising the diamond quantity? Instead of reducing the most popular packages.
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mamboking053
Well-Known Member
Inno said it changed the diamond amount due to balancing issues, not because their staff needed more money or they, as a company, needed money. Businesses do this a lot. Walmart is an infamous corner cutter. Each of the founders kids is a multi-billionaire. Where's the struggle?
I'm not really pinging on Inno, but at the same time I'm not going to generate excuses because I'm some sycophant or boot-lick (not saying you are). My criticism comes when I see how much items cost in the game. Remember that Black Friday event? Remember the ridiculous prices they were charging for products? Yeah it's their business and they can do what they want, but when you think about how they sell then you get the idea it's a cash grab- and one markedly NOT tailored to providing the best experience for the player, but for their benefit. Saying you don't need to buy diamonds so it's all right if Inno charges whatever they want is idiotic and snobbish to boot. Yes, we understand you play the game without using diamonds and I will attend the parade they throw in your honor.
Again, completely within their right. Not so sure of the 'why' of this change since- as I pointed out- there's other balance issues that don't seem to be very fair, and we won't know the impact till we know the impact. Bethesda is a massive game seller that made millions and still made terrible decisions. They don't always know what their doing. It is a problem, but luckily one that doesn't affect the core game play so while it may distance some people who do pay up routinely (even though if you do than why not just by the lump-sum 40% discount package instead of the smaller, more expensive ones anyway???) I don't expect some sort of massive retaliation. But it could be a sign that Inno is leaning more and more towards more profit for whatever reason.
RazorbackPirate
Well-Known Member
Because your idea will make them less money, when their goal is to make more. They need to cost per diamond to go up, not stay the same or go down.
RazorbackPirate
Well-Known Member
Yup. Pretty much the point of creating and running a business. Duh.Yeah it's their business and they can do what they want, but when you think about how they sell then you get the idea it's a cash grab- and one markedly NOT tailored to providing the best experience for the player, but for their benefit.
mamboking053
Well-Known Member
Not every business does it in the best manner. Duh.
RazorbackPirate
Well-Known Member
Not saying they do, but every business is in business to make money. Whether they do it successfully or not is irrelevant.
DeletedUser36020
They didn't explicitly say so, but reading Sovereign's second post led me to believe this is why.Inno said it changed the diamond amount due to balancing issues, not because their staff needed more money or they, as a company, needed money. Businesses do this a lot. Walmart is an infamous corner cutter. Each of the founders kids is a multi-billionaire. Where's the struggle?
I'm not really pinging on Inno, but at the same time I'm not going to generate excuses because I'm some sycophant or boot-lick (not saying you are). My criticism comes when I see how much items cost in the game. Remember that Black Friday event? Remember the ridiculous prices they were charging for products? Yeah it's their business and they can do what they want, but when you think about how they sell then you get the idea it's a cash grab- and one markedly NOT tailored to providing the best experience for the player, but for their benefit. Saying you don't need to buy diamonds so it's all right if Inno charges whatever they want is idiotic and snobbish to boot. Yes, we understand you play the game without using diamonds and I will attend the parade they throw in your honor.
Again, completely within their right. Not so sure of the 'why' of this change since- as I pointed out- there's other balance issues that don't seem to be very fair, and we won't know the impact till we know the impact. Bethesda is a massive game seller that made millions and still made terrible decisions. They don't always know what their doing. It is a problem, but luckily one that doesn't affect the core game play so while it may distance some people who do pay up routinely (even though if you do than why not just by the lump-sum 40% discount package instead of the smaller, more expensive ones anyway???) I don't expect some sort of massive retaliation. But it could be a sign that Inno is leaning more and more towards more profit for whatever reason.
"In terms of the suggestion by a few that Diamonds don't cost anything as a virtual currency, this is in the strictest terms true, of course it is, but that doesn't mean they aren't worth anything. Diamonds a part of our revenue stream, and keep the employees employed, the offices powered, and the content cycle we deliver continuing.
Without premium spenders, Free to Play games, such as Forge, in general simply wouldn't exist. The entire business model is built on the concept of offering a free to play game, which players can optionally make purchases to enhance their experience. As explained in the announcement, this is the first price increase since 2017, and it isn't unreasonable for us to choose to do this."
That sounds as if the cost of producing the game went up as a result of something like employees needing higher wages, rent increasing, or equipment costs going up.
Don't get me wrong; I am not happy with the changes. But my post also attempted to lean on the more positive side of things since INNO is getting harshly responded to my players not really evaluating the possible reasons for the increase.
In response to your statement that they are leaning towards more profit rather than creating a game for the player's enjoyment is just not true, especially when you compare it to other games. Sure, the mobile game market is rough right now. Companies are constantly over valuing their virtual items and targeting addicts in order to make immense profit on a mobile game. But INNO has so far not given me a reason to think they are falling that far. Is it a great move for INNO to charge 20 bucks for a single item? Not in my opinion. But events are quite often easily completed without any diamonds. The game certainly shouldn't be so easy that it would be easily completed without any challenge or planning.
mamboking053
Well-Known Member
Every business wants to make money, but how they make money is relevant.
mamboking053
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I can see what people think when they criticize paying for a virtual currency, but that currency affects the game experience. Too many diamonds will make it too easy or unbalance the game- especially when it seems to be a game deliberately paced to take time to play. I can see the sense in making diamonds difficult to obtain, and am not saying that Inno is necessarily wrong for it, but at the same time I wouldn't say they could change the price to anything they want and remain free from the accusation of being more about the benjamin's than the players experience. It's when the developers or whoever begin to tilt in that direction that a game can sink and it's happened to other titles who put out massively successful products.
Well...more realistically- especially these days- a f2p game is released as free, but survives off it's micro-transactions. The games are deliberately designed so that you can play for free if you want to, but you will be frustrated by the grinding and time required for it. But people who want advantages or to move faster- which they usually do- will want to pay for such things and often do. There's even a sharky tactic of a flop game that knows it will not retain people, but is designed to get people to spend that initial dollar-boost at the beginning of a game so that they make their money that way. There's a difference between profit-motive and excessive, predatory practices. Not saying Inno is doing this, but skepticism is not without justification.
You don't know that. I'm simply skeptical of it, but I don't assume Inno above these intentions. When you raise the price on a product in our game while also put out sales- constantly- for products whose worth is far less than the price demanded it makes you wonder.
DeletedUser37497
Well, yes and no. My response quoted wasn't really specifically to address or amend the original message of the announcement, but more to address the points raised by some posters that Diamonds don't actually cost us anything. Diamonds in essence are our money, and its an important fact to remember whenever you consider InnoGames position on anything. Another thing to remember is that many (many) games, both free and free to play have ingame ads to supplement their revenue. Forge doesn't
But specifically why the adjustment is being made this time around is a calculated change based on balancing our packages to ensure we continue to offer premium experience at a competitive price point.
Cheers!
DeletedUser18799
Today I am deleting at least 5 accounts. I play on 20 worlds, paying for collection on each one once or twice a day. Eventually I will reduce my play to 6 worlds.
Don't forget, it's those like me that freely spend money on the game that makes it possible for the non spenders to play for free
Good move Inno.
Don't forget, it's those like me that freely spend money on the game that makes it possible for the non spenders to play for free
Good move Inno.
DeletedUser26101
I have been playing a little while and I too am a professional with a well paying job and can afford to drop $20 here and there. I chose to stay with this game rather than some others and didnt mind dropping some cash for some in game help. But with this change and the rationale offered, I have to say I will be thinking hard about that decision. This allows me to play a little at a time but I will say honestly that I think I have reached the point where perhaps its time to move on; allowing new users to come in. But TBH I think that the rationale offered was lame. "We need to increase revenue is fine" or we are changing this to raise revenue for increased bandwidth or replace aging servers - but 'aligning' more just seems....weak.Well, yes and no. My response quoted wasn't really specifically to address or amend the original message of the announcement, but more to address the points raised by some posters that Diamonds don't actually cost us anything. Diamonds in essence are our money, and its an important fact to remember whenever you consider InnoGames position on anything. Another thing to remember is that many (many) games, both free and free to play have ingame ads to supplement their revenue. Forge doesn't
But specifically why the adjustment is being made this time around is a calculated change based on balancing our packages to ensure we continue to offer premium experience at a competitive price point.
Cheers!
However that is a business decision, no issue.
DeletedUser35158
Well, it must be time for a raise for you people (Inno). Couldn't you raise the price and the amount of diamonds? Instead you feed us a story about how it is good for the game?
DeletedUser27889
Last year they tried testing out ads in a feature called the show hall. Beta players met that with a RESOUNDING no. People were very concerned with security issues as the third party ads could only be verified portionaly and it seemed inno had little control over what ads were run so even if they wanted to be more secure, they really couldn't be once they opened the doors. (< later part is an assumption based on the beta conversation with players (some of which outside programers) beta CM and the ToS for the ads)
Players, many of them payers, asked ads to not be put into the game. Do you see any now? No. We got our way. Because of their desire to keep us happy and keep our devices secure they nixed a possible revenue stream for themselves. Many people even stated they would rather the game go full pay then ads. That didn't happen either. Now a moderate pay hike and people lose their minds? Please. Most companies would have kept the ads, given us the middle finger and still raised prices.
Players, many of them payers, asked ads to not be put into the game. Do you see any now? No. We got our way. Because of their desire to keep us happy and keep our devices secure they nixed a possible revenue stream for themselves. Many people even stated they would rather the game go full pay then ads. That didn't happen either. Now a moderate pay hike and people lose their minds? Please. Most companies would have kept the ads, given us the middle finger and still raised prices.
DeletedUser18799
there's that catch word again, "balance". Forget the spin it is a raise in your rates, quit calling it something elseWell, yes and no. My response quoted wasn't really specifically to address or amend the original message of the announcement, but more to address the points raised by some posters that Diamonds don't actually cost us anything. Diamonds in essence are our money, and its an important fact to remember whenever you consider InnoGames position on anything. Another thing to remember is that many (many) games, both free and free to play have ingame ads to supplement their revenue. Forge doesn't
But specifically why the adjustment is being made this time around is a calculated change based on balancing our packages to ensure we continue to offer premium experience at a competitive price point.
Cheers!
DeletedUser18799
I love the game and will continue to play however there is now an imbalance between what I pay and what I get. I will have to spend less and play less
Cromis car Erin
New Member
I didn't miss it. As a former IT developer I understand more than you think. Do you recognize "ID10T"? The players are not!!
DeletedUser38934
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DeletedUser
Apparently not if you think that all Inno does is "ongoing maintenance". Your words, not mine.