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When can we stop pretending GBG is balanced?

Algona

Well-Known Member
Not complaining about it, but "Your in DIAMOND!!!" is not always a good thing.
How do you feel about the OPs suggestion that because your Guild isn't competitive at the very highest end of Diamond that your Guild should not be allowed in Diamond at all?
 
It isn't, the ranking system is broken. In one of my worlds my guild is in diamond and we always get 1st or 2nd depending on who's on the map. Most of the guilds that are in diamond don't belong in diamond at all, at most they are gold level.
 

85gt

Member
In GbG if you did not advance so fast and get put in a season that is way out of your league it would be more fun for the smaller guilds.
Join or merge into a bigger guild so your more powerfull, many guilds in Diamond do not belong there and the points system should be changed to make it harder to advance. Its like half up and half down now and should be only 1/3 advance and 2/3 decline.
What Inno has done by seperating the strong guilds is hurting the smaller guilds more than the bigger ones, those guilds getting crushed simply do not belong in Diamond.
 

James the Raptor

New Member
BG is ridiculous now... the league rankings are flawed. Most seasons, we have 7 guilds which can't come close to swapping enough sectors to allow us to fight at even 50% of our potential. Come on Inno - adjust the league calcs... 60+ diamond guids in A world? I'd say there might only be 10 that deserve diamond.
 
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Sheriff Of Rottingham

Active Member
You can't balance human behavior. And I suspect you are skewing the sample to try and prove a point. You do this every GBG season? I bet you don't...otherwise you might be in a more competitive group with your current spending. I'm betting you spent thousands of diamonds and tens of thousands in guild resources to make a point on the forum. Genius!
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
The biggest flaw in GBG balancing is that they don't strictly factor in guild size, not the league you are in.
not really. GE strictly does guild size and almost every week my guild has far less competition then GBG. Numbers mean nothing if those in the guilds aren’t participating or are already at their max capability before the end of Lvl 2 while your own guild could go well beyond Lvl 4 if the option existed. Because then their same size guild really is working at the capacity of a guild half your size


The biggest flaw in GBG mechanics is that it isn't 100% anonymous.
This I agree with. However you’d have a hard time making it entirely anonymous in a way that couldn’t be worked out or if anonymous have a silent unspoken alliance. It didn’t take long in the current format for guilds to work together locking other guilds out without ever communicating, and then from that later on becoming official allies that talked.

If it were anonymous you’d need to remove GBG from the global rankings. Because if you don’t you’d know from that who‘s in what league if you put in the effort to calculate prestige
 

James the Raptor

New Member
When Inno calculated initial guild ranking for the very first BG season, it was accurate and we were paired with a much more competitive group. Perhaps factoring in some of the measures used for that initial ranking would better match guilds in BG and could be used along with BG results to calc LP. The cap on points (MMR/LP) of 1000 should also perhaps be changed or removed. Another idea would be to make the guild rewards (for coming in 1st, 2nd, etc) a bigger spread... as it is now, coming in 2nd or 3rd (versus 1st) is almost negligible. Just some ideas. We used to have a minimum requirement for BG encounters, now we can barely build camps for fear that there won't be fights for some in the guild while we wait for the other guilds to retake sectors.
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
I think the imbalance (such as it is) arises from the players. If you want to (and can) spend more time or get enough players on often enough then you are going to have an advantage over those guilds that didn't heavily commit to GBG in their membership lists. Plus it comes down to how much guilds can spend on those camps. You really want more balance it isn't new leagues that are needed it's basically nerfing the camps. No I'm not actually suggesting that should be done so please don't form a mob and run me out of town. :p
 

Vger

Well-Known Member
How do you feel about the OPs suggestion that because your Guild isn't competitive at the very highest end of Diamond that your Guild should not be allowed in Diamond at all?
It wasn't a well fleshed out suggestion, but, yeah, I would probably be OK with that. GBG tends to be fun when we are Platinum, or low end Diamond.
GBG is fun when it's at least a bit competitive. It's not fun if you are just playing checkers to get stuff. It's also not fun if you are sitting on the porch watching others play checkers to get stuff.
I don't like the extreme swings that seem to happen. You have one or two fun seasons, then the Peter Principle kicks in and you mostly sit out a season.
Feels a bit like winning a Go Kart race, so, yeah, go give Le Mans a try.
 

Plain Red Justice

Active Member
The reason for this imbalance is simple: there are too many worlds. Tendency is that player population gets far too dispersed instead of focusing in a single or few points. The partial but effective solution for this are simply time, lower spawn rates of new worlds and active efforts to raise player knowledge
 

King Nipps

New Member
Here is a screenshot of our current GBG map in diamond league 1 hour after GBG opened. Before giving my thoughts, I'm going to start a hashtag called #InnoBalance:

When your 2nd grader reaches the final round in the school spelling bee and has to beat an English professor #InnoBalance

When the state championship football game is a local varsity team vs the KC Chiefs #InnoBalance

When you're in the final round of an interview and your last task is to defend a PhD Thesis #InnoBalance

When your niece/nephew asks you to help them study their multiplication tables so you hit 'em with a little calculus instead #InnoBalance

Come on now, let's either make an apex league or make diamond the apex league and only allow the top 7-8 guilds in. If you're one of the bottom 2 GBG guilds for a season, you're out for the next season and the top 2 Plat guilds move in. This isn't hard, there are a ton of games with apex ranking systems that you can copy.
How do you feel about the OPs suggestion that because your Guild isn't competitive at the very highest end of Diamond that your Guild should not be allowed in Diamond at all?
To make matters worse, the ability of two major guilds on the same world to organize amiable “sector swaps” allows them to lock all six of the other guilds into their starting sector with so little access that they can’t even burn their attrition. It creates a bully environment which absolutely ruins gameplay experience. Too bad this can’t be run crossworld so these guilds couldn’t use a game to exorcize their real life angers.
 

ahsay

Active Member
I mean a single diamond league for each world, not 40+ guilds sitting in diamond where you have 7 different diamond GBGs going on simultaneously every 2 weeks. 7-8 guilds in diamond total, everyone else should be plat and below. On my world we have 42 guilds in diamond this round, and as it's plainly obvious in my original post that should not be the case.
That's just stupid. Then you'd have a system where the rich will always get richer. At least the way it is now weak guilds have a shot to better themselves.

I'm not sure why everything has to fair. It's not in life why should it be in a game? I'm not in a top league anymore but when I was, three guilds banded together to bring us down. That is how it should be. If it's unfair to you...then get creative, figure it out....turn it around. But don't whine about, "it's not fair".

A great organisation has the motto, "improvise, adapt, overcome". In war, which is what GB is, things are not fair. Deal with it.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
I see what the OP is getting at now. Remove the cap on LP, and have only the top 8 diamond-eligible guilds be placed into it. Everyone else is capped at platinum, until they surpass one of those top 8 guilds. On paper, this sounds like it would ensure that every guild in diamond is top-tier, compared to the current system where the relatively low cap is starting to lead to relatively weak guilds making it in since there's not very high a guild can go over a long period of time.

Of course, this wouldn't really fix any of the lower tiers, but it would at least ensure guilds are continuously motivated to do well in order to reach or remain in the top league.
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
[...] it would at least ensure guilds are continuously motivated to do well in order to reach or remain in the top league.
there wouldn’t be a need to maintain top league if there’s no cap in their score. With no cap once they’re high enough they can quit trying for an entire year only doing the minimum 40 and still be in diamond.

With a cap they have to maintain position every season because if they don’t they’ll be replaced with another guild
 

Plain Red Justice

Active Member
there wouldn’t be a need to maintain top league if there’s no cap in their score. With no cap once they’re high enough they can quit trying for an entire year only doing the minimum 40 and still be in diamond.
Moot point when no top guild is going to do what you're implying they will do. No sensible top tier guild with ambitious members would just randomly take a break and not do anything during an 11 day period. They play GBG for the Checkers everyday rewards and if they happen to be rich, to actually do GBG and compete
 

James the Raptor

New Member
there wouldn’t be a need to maintain top league if there’s no cap in their score. With no cap once they’re high enough they can quit trying for an entire year only doing the minimum 40 and still be in diamond.

With a cap they have to maintain position every season because if they don’t they’ll be replaced with another guild
Some combo of increased cap and more drastic +/- points for position finished.