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When can we stop pretending GBG is balanced?

King Reaper VII

Active Member
Exactly in Y world as well, My guild, (Ascension), is always at 1000 LP, the same with a few other guilds, and we just get bored with sending guilds to the lower diamond, and even platinum.
 
Pretty much the same for us. Luckily we play a lot of GvG which does negate the boredom of GBG which is an exercise in farming and nothing more.

We went for GbG because our guild has never been into GvG as much. I play with a handful of people but it just isn’t the same. For most families, reset is either family dinner or bedtime. GbG was so awesome for us when it came out. We were right at that perfect growth place as a guild to excel with it. In Y, the top GbG guilds are still competitive with each other. No checkerboard garbage here. We fight and play to win... If and when we actually get in the same match. Five rounds is a long long time for a band of fighters to do nothing. So disheartened.
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
Maybe try a ticket? It certainly seems like something is messed up or they changed the criteria as we've had the same top 3 guilds for
Same in Q world...but there are 3 of us, so we do a 3-way swap. Getting boring AF.


Then don't swap maybe one of the other guilds would like to be bored. :p
 
The problem right now is that the pool of 1000 LP guilds keeps getting larger and competition grows thinner. The current systems shuffles all the 1000 LP guilds at random and strong guilds like mine end up in matches with guilds that can barely get out of home base.

Why not match all the winners together? You made it to 1000 LP, so now you should fight the best of the best, right? Put all the second place 1000 LP guilds together and 3rd place together, then shuffle the rest. That should at least ensure that every other round you get at least one other competitive team who plays to win. And the winners always play other winners who placed at the same rank.

The other issue is to stop the 1000 LP pool from continuing to grow. Cap it... limit how many guilds can actually be tied by adding a tie breaker. No more than X number of guilds at 1000 LP, ranked by #of advances (battles + negs) and total vps/hour. All others get a -1 penalty and are knocked to 999 LP. It’s all diamond league, so the rewards remain the same, but the competition becomes more targeted.
 

JohnieBlaze17

New Member
Same in Q world...but there are 3 of us, so we do a 3-way swap. Getting boring AF.
The problem right now is that the pool of 1000 LP guilds keeps getting larger and competition grows thinner. The current systems shuffles all the 1000 LP guilds at random and strong guilds like mine end up in matches with guilds that can barely get out of home base.

Why not match all the winners together? You made it to 1000 LP, so now you should fight the best of the best, right? Put all the second place 1000 LP guilds together and 3rd place together, then shuffle the rest. That should at least ensure that every other round you get at least one other competitive team who plays to win. And the winners always play other winners who placed at the same rank.

The other issue is to stop the 1000 LP pool from continuing to grow. Cap it... limit how many guilds can actually be tied by adding a tie breaker. No more than X number of guilds at 1000 LP, ranked by #of advances (battles + negs) and total vps/hour. All others get a -1 penalty and are knocked to 999 LP. It’s all diamond league, so the rewards remain the same, but the competition becomes more targeted.
Love that idea but doubt anything will be done
 

Savvy187

Member
I think it s a great idea to put all the top guilds in the same BG, though I doubt the top guilds would like that very much.
 

Tony 85 the Generous

Well-Known Member
The problem right now is that the pool of 1000 LP guilds keeps getting larger and competition grows thinner.
The only way diamond league membership grows is if enough new guilds are formed and advance spread out through copper, silver, gold, and platinum leagues. If they all stay in copper (ie., never do GBG) then nothing changes. I have run the numbers and performed simulations. The only way for a new guild to be added to diamond is to be "pushed there" by adding another guild to platinum which is "pushed there" by adding one to gold, etc. Though this is written as "one guild" it actually takes several guilds, best case minimum is four new guilds.

I think it s a great idea to put all the top guilds in the same BG, though I doubt the top guilds would like that very much.
This already happens. All 1000LP guilds are pitted against each other. In the event there are not enough, then the next highest guild(s) are included.

Neither one of these ideas addresses the issue as to why those guilds are here and why they should not be here. The problem is advancement is based on acquiring league points which is based on winning. Win and you get points. Get point you move up. There is no influence on or difficulty taken into account to determine if you should advance because you have won.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
It makes no sense that GB maps are not made up of eight, 1000 LP guilds as many as needed to hold them all, then one map with the couple few overflow, LP ranked guilds.

Why are the top guilds not fighting each other? Why are they split apart 2 or 3 to a map?
 
Neither one of these ideas addresses the issue as to why those guilds are here and why they should not be here. The problem is advancement is based on acquiring league points which is based on winning. Win and you get points. Get point you move up. There is no influence on or difficulty taken into account to determine if you should advance because you have won.

Well, I never claimed the idea would solve the bigger picture issue, but it would at least give the competitive guilds a chance to compete or farm with other active GbG guilds and help prevent their competitive members from drifting off into the sunset out of boredom. It would also mean that any top guilds working together would not be matched two rounds straight, preventing the opposite situation of being «stuck » with the same top guild round after round.

Regarding your point about advancement being part of the issue, I agree with that also. My suspicion lies with the odd number matches of 7 guilds. The league points awarded are 150 100 50 0 -50 -100 -150. That means that there are always more guilds that advance or stay put in those rounds than get dropped back down versus the even matches of four gain and four lose. Over time, and over the vast number of rounds in a world, it seems like that would incrementally propel more guilds upwards and eventually into the 1000 LP pool than drop back down. A possible solution could be to ensure that there are no odd number matches or perhaps make 4th place in a 7 guild league worth -1 LP.

Just to further my point a bit more, I went back and reviewed my data and out of the 37 past GbG rounds, fourteen of them were 7 guild leagues, and five of them 5 guild leagues. Every time that happened, more guilds moved up than down. And that is only one league represented.
 
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Tannerite2

Member
This already happens. All 1000LP guilds are pitted against each other. In the event there are not enough, then the next highest guild(s) are included.

Neither one of these ideas addresses the issue as to why those guilds are here and why they should not be here. The problem is advancement is based on acquiring league points which is based on winning. Win and you get points. Get point you move up. There is no influence on or difficulty taken into account to determine if you should advance because you have won.

1000 LP guilds are not all equal. Some could single handedly hold 7 other 1000 LP guilds on base the whole round. I don't see an issue with awarding points for winning. The issue is it's too easy to move up and down. If you finish last in a 1000 LP battleground, you move to a mid-tier platinum battleground where you can destroy everybody and then you end up right back at 1000 LP, getting destroyed yourself. I think Inno should lower the LP rewards in Diamond to -15 to 15 instead of -150 to 150. Place a hard cap so that every platinum guild that moves up starts at 905, no matter how many LP they earned the previous round. That would push the top guilds together and prevent mediocre guilds from getting anywhere close to 1000 LP.
 

Tony 85 the Generous

Well-Known Member
1000 LP guilds are not all equal.
Except for the fact they have all been awarded wnough LP to be in diamond.
I don't see an issue with awarding points for winning. The issue is it's too easy to move up and down. If you finish last in a 1000 LP battleground, you move to a mid-tier platinum battleground where you can destroy everybody and then you end up right back at 1000 LP, getting destroyed yourself. I think Inno should lower the LP rewards in Diamond to -15 to 15 instead of -150 to 150. Place a hard cap so that every platinum guild that moves up starts at 905, no matter how many LP they earned the previous round. That would push the top guilds together and prevent mediocre guilds from getting anywhere close to 1000 LP.
You have adequately described most of the issues with the LP system, except for the fact the points are solely awarded on winning or that league advancement is based on the LP accumulated. Neither take into account the relative competitiveness of the guilds.

Obviously LP total alone is not enough to balance the matches on the map. How would you suggest to differentiate the guilds if not by LP?
 

Ironrooster

Well-Known Member
For more competition, one solution might be to remove the 1000 LP cap and let points rise. Then group the Diamond league by points. For a little extra flavor, the top Diamond BG could maybe have some extra reward for the winner.
 

Tony 85 the Generous

Well-Known Member
For more competition, one solution might be to remove the 1000 LP cap and let points rise. Then group the Diamond league by points. For a little extra flavor, the top Diamond BG could maybe have some extra reward for the winner.
Let's imagine the cap is lifted. What is the difference between the top 8 guilds having 1000LP versus having 1100, 1225, 1300, 1425, 1550, 1600, 1625, and 1900 LP? If the 7th place guild has 1225LP instead of 1000LP how does that make them more able to compete?

Whether the points are capped in diamond league or not, the guilds are grouped together for a GBG season based on points. Therefore the problem is not even remotely addressed or solved. Another factor needs to be added, other than winning and being awarded points based solely on the leaderboard.

The other aspect that must be reviewed during a season of GBG, is whether or not you were in the "winning" alliance or not. What affect does the opposing alliance have on your guilds ability to perform and be competitive in a GBG season.
 
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Tony 85 the Generous

Well-Known Member
Just have another tier where top 2-3 guilds of each world is sent, and you'll have a competitive league once again.
Moving the top 2-3 guilds to a cross world GBG map, that will make the remaining 17-20 guilds with 1000LP competitive equally balanced on the GBG maps? What determines the top 2-3 guilds?
 

MJ Artisan of War

Well-Known Member
We could just take away every guilds standing and points. Start over so everything is even for everyone.
Then watch the exact same guilds dominate and the exact same whiners to issue forth with cries of unfairness...
Be right back where we are in six months... That would be fun...
 
The other aspect that must be reviewed during a season of GBG, is whether or not you were in the "winning" alliance or not. What affect does the opposing alliance have on your guilds ability to perform and be competitive in a GBG season.

Which is why if you group the 1st place winners together and 2nd place winners together, the alliance cannot benefit for more than one round straight unless they just happen to have a lot of friends among all guilds. Either way, they’d both still have to win their next match independently to be grouped together again. That would be.... actual competition. Wow.
 
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