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When can we stop pretending GBG is balanced?

King Nipps

New Member
I thought this was a forum about illuminating game play experience issues. I was wrong. I have factually illuminated an issue and most respondents have simply told me that my actual experience is not the experience and that my entire server would utilize an external app to communicate to perpetuate it which is patently ridiculous since most won’t pass beyond an IM thread to the in-game chat. The final answer I received is to stop playing and abandon my city of five and a half years. This has sucked and Inno, if this is where your helpdesk is referring people to openly discuss issues, then it is a pity.
 

ahsay

Active Member
I thought this was a forum about illuminating game play experience issues. I was wrong. I have factually illuminated an issue and most respondents have simply told me that my actual experience is not the experience and that my entire server would utilize an external app to communicate to perpetuate it which is patently ridiculous since most won’t pass beyond an IM thread to the in-game chat. The final answer I received is to stop playing and abandon my city of five and a half years. This has sucked and Inno, if this is where your helpdesk is referring people to openly discuss issues, then it is a pity.
I think people here have been fair. Most have heard you and don't agree.

Factual??? I don't recall any that doubted your experience, definitely not me. Sure it may get frustrating some times but instead of exploring solutions you want to do away with an entire system most enjoy.

You propose a "potential" solution. A system you have no idea will even work, I myself don't believe it will even come close to addressing your issues but because you weren't embraced we're at fault?
 

85gt

Member
GBG needs to be cross world so no alliance is easy. Then it would truly be a free for all and small guilds would gnaw at whoever swept across the map and alliances where segments are traded to lock guilds out would be almost impossible to maintain.
That will not stop 2 large guilds working together, if the small guilds can`t run with the big guilds then they simply don`t belong in the same league, get rid of the even split of + and - in the end results, it needs to be more guilds getting pushed back to the next lower league and fewer advancing. If the small guild leaders put in no time to grow why should they be rewarded with diamond league. There are near 5500 guilds in B world, they do not all deserve to be diamond
 

Lord Pest

Well-Known Member
The issue is how to stop the farming. We are in a 5 guild alliance and the other 2 guilds didn’t want to join it and they are the weakest of the 7 diamond guilds. So it’s about farming this season. Don’t get me wrong I love to farm but GBG should be about cut throat competition and it’s turn into more of a cooperative effort between the guilds to win personal rewards. The only way to fix it would be for your guild to go up against a couple of guilds controlled by the computer with a learning algorithm. Get 2 human comtroled guilds go up against one another and sooner or later they realize that cooperation is better than fighting each other.

Another thought would be only the first place guild stays in diamond. Everyone else goes to platinum. Next week in platinum only the first place guild goes to diamond. The second place stays in platinum and everyone else goes to gold. Same rules for gold, silver and copper. Finish first you go up. Obviously in copper everyone stays except the 1st place guild which goes to silver.
 

Kranyar the Mysterious

Well-Known Member
The issue is how to stop the farming. We are in a 5 guild alliance and the other 2 guilds didn’t want to join it and they are the weakest of the 7 diamond guilds. So it’s about farming this season. Don’t get me wrong I love to farm but GBG should be about cut throat competition and it’s turn into more of a cooperative effort between the guilds to win personal rewards. The only way to fix it would be for your guild to go up against a couple of guilds controlled by the computer with a learning algorithm. Get 2 human comtroled guilds go up against one another and sooner or later they realize that cooperation is better than fighting each other.

Another thought would be only the first place guild stays in diamond. Everyone else goes to platinum. Next week in platinum only the first place guild goes to diamond. The second place stays in platinum and everyone else goes to gold. Same rules for gold, silver and copper. Finish first you go up. Obviously in copper everyone stays except the 1st place guild which goes to silver.
That might work, but it might also drive many players totally away since almost everyone would be in Copper, most with no prospect to ever advance.
 

kmc11

Member
The league system is borked. But that's fixable.

The top 5-10 GBG guilds on a server are usually lightyears ahead in performance compared to a top 20 guild.
So the strongest guilds dictacte and smash GBG, ultimately founding alliances and farming their rear ends off.

It's very lucrative and very boring. Due to the point where people drop out of GBG for multiple sessions because GBG is more of a executive meeting than a battleground. But I guess the current GBG is an iteration of the game - and I don't expect it to stay like this forever.

GBG would need an adjustment to the ladder so that there's no matchups where one guild takes < 120 seconds to take a sector while the other guild takes < 60 minutes. The second would be an incentive to compete rather than farm. With or without alliances. But that is quite hard to achieve.

How would these incentives look like? Rewards for keeping a sector? Lowering rewards if a sector is consecutively farmed by two guilds?
I can't imagine a good idea on how to achieve an incentive for coopetition/competition rather than farming.
But I think it would be a noble goal.
Differentiating the #1/#2/#3 rank rewards in GBG might be a good start. It's literally no difference wether the guild ranks #1 or #2.

But then again, guilds can just trade back and forth #1/#2 on a per session basis.
 

Plain Red Justice

Active Member
But I think it would be a noble goal.
Differentiating the #1/#2/#3 rank rewards in GBG might be a good start. It's literally no difference wether the guild ranks #1 or #2.

But then again, guilds can just trade back and forth #1/#2 on a per session basis.
I have an actual fix for this that would make alliances much harder and intuitive to establish: a GBG Champion buff that rewards #1 and only the #1 Diamond guilds in a given GBG season. The rewards for being #1 scales unlimitedly for every consecutive season that they get #1. I recall posting it here somewhere before about the reward details
 

Rob Bin Dahood

New Member
To the OP, I would suggest the actual issue is how Inno splits the guilds on 1000 LP. This (to my knowledge) is not known how they do this. A simple solution could be to remove the cap of 1000 LP (for GBG ranking purposes only, so it doesn't affect guild prestige) and you would get better matchups
 

Kranyar the Mysterious

Well-Known Member
I have an actual fix for this that would make alliances much harder and intuitive to establish: a GBG Champion buff that rewards #1 and only the #1 Diamond guilds in a given GBG season. The rewards for being #1 scales unlimitedly for every consecutive season that they get #1. I recall posting it here somewhere before about the reward details
Of course the end result is that the top 80 players in a given world who care about that buff reward will all end up in that top guild, which will remain the top guild forever (or until it falls apart). No other guild would stand a chance.

- Do you have your mandatory 5000 battles in yet this season? Remember to get them in by tomorrow night -
 

Plain Red Justice

Active Member
Of course the end result is that the top 80 players in a given world who care about that buff reward will all end up in that top guild, which will remain the top guild forever (or until it falls apart). No other guild would stand a chance.

- Do you have your mandatory 5000 battles in yet this season? Remember to get them in by tomorrow night -
It isn't that simple and it has something to do with sector timings, cost- benefit comparisons to just having a regular GBG alliance and sustainability
 
There have been great ideas posted here and in other threads with a similar leaning, whether everyone agrees or not, all of the proposed ideas have merit. What I tried pointing out in my earlier post in this thread is simply that INNO doesn't believe the current GbG system is broken. 1. Despite the numerous attempts by many they have not changed it thus far. 2. They expanded the top leagues to include many guilds that don't seem to fit the capabilities of the upper guilds on a given server. Yes, there are exceptions which is why I was purposefully non exclusionary in my terminology. I know there are fully capable teams being "teamed-up" against, as well as fully capable team simply deciding to not participate in GbG either at all or to the extent of other top guilds.
...Please consider the following, INNO could, quite simply, decide to keep only the top 8 guilds from each server in the Diamond league every season and watch them either battle it out or all completely work together, but they have chosen not to do so. The hyper expansion of the diamond league teams seems to indicate to me that INNO has designed to make GbG to bring the greatest level of rewards to the greatest number of players. Again, just my opinion based from what I have included.
 

85gt

Member
I like this idea mentioned above: " Lowering rewards if a sector is consecutively farmed by two guilds? "
To make it a bit harder. a sector would not give any reward to the Guild taking it back before the following condition is met:
So penalize the big guilds for spending time to manage their guild so that they are stronger, lol get out of that little guild and join one that is run correctly and can make it in diamond
 

kmc11

Member
So penalize the big guilds for spending time to manage their guild so that they are stronger, lol get out of that little guild and join one that is run correctly and can make it in diamond

Not everyone in the top guilds just wants to farm and farm. There's a decent share of people that want to compete.
The current meta for points & city growth is farming, so people that do want to compete rather than farm still farm, because that's the only way to compete with players that are farming.

If there's 3 "topdog" guilds and you're in one of them, if you end up with those guilds in one single map you can choose to not farm to put them behind.
( Given that you can corner those guilds alone or have a beneficial alliance )
Though if the guilds are spread across multiple maps, it becomes a farming battle.

" Lowering rewards if a sector is consecutively farmed by two guilds? "
I put the question mark there, because it may sound good at first, but what if there is only 2 big guilds that compete against each other?
They'd be "penalized" for actually trying to cut down the other guild on the map. Plus then you might have less rewards, less siege camps, more traps, making it very unattractive to actually go battle for people that would rather farm, eventually causing a stall.
Then smaller guilds MAY have a chance taking a sector, but as soon as that sector gets taken and the penalty is lifted that's like meat in a shark tank.

Soo.. all in all, there's a lot of ways to solve the problems we have but it'll take more than some brainstorming to get there.
 
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Plain Red Justice

Active Member
but what if there is only 2 big guilds that compete against each other? They'd be "penalized" for actually trying to cut down the other guild on the map. Plus then you might have less rewards, less siege camps, more traps, making it very unattractive to actually go battle for people that would rather farm, eventually causing a stall.
My GBG Champion buff solves this exact issue. I still haven't mustered enough motivation to dig out this place but I remember posting that a #1 guild in any given GBG season gets a buff that lets them get +3 FP for the rewards that they will earn next season. They get this +3 FP buff every other season that they manage to get #1 and it infinitely scales (I don't remember what I placed for winning the 2nd 4th 6th wins but you get the point). Now there's a reason for a guild to rabidly compete for #1 instead of getting irrelevant fragments
 

Sheriff Of Rottingham

Active Member
not really. GE strictly does guild size and almost every week my guild has far less competition then GBG. Numbers mean nothing if those in the guilds aren’t participating or are already at their max capability before the end of Lvl 2 while your own guild could go well beyond Lvl 4 if the option existed. Because then their same size guild really is working at the capacity of a guild half your size

Well...let me put it to you another way. I see 40 man guilds and 20 man guilds in the same GBG season. All other things equal, If only 10 people from each guild competes, then it is even. BUT if 25% of each guild participates, then the smaller guild is effectively eliminated. Competing is impossible, again assuming all other factors are equal. And I want to stress that point. B/c we are talking about specifics on what is a problem for even competition.
 
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