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When can we stop pretending GBG is balanced?

Nashtah

Member
That only means your guild is weak and can't compete with anyone else.
I find that very funny being in a guild of 35 member can't complete in Diamond level with guilds of 80 member has nothing to do with being weak but being matched to lose. Current round has 3 75-80member guilds, 1 60 member guild , 1 35 member guild, 1 20 member guild and 1 14 member guild. So yes the three small guilds were selected to lose. With 10 diamond rounds of GBG happening right now on my world, they could be matched a ton better.
By the way we are number 1 or 2 in our match every time in platinum rounds.
 
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RedR0ck

Member
I find that very funny being in a guild of 35 member can't complete in Diamond level with guilds of 80 member has nothing to do with being weak but being matched to lose. Current round has 3 75-80member guilds, 1 60 member guild , 1 35 member guild, 1 20 member guild and 1 14 member guild. So yes the three small guilds were selected to lose. With 10 diamond rounds of GBG happening right now on my world, they could be matched a ton better.
By the way we are number 1 or 2 in our match every time in platinum rounds.
Well besides that guild is weak in fighting they are also weak in communication and team leading. Are you looking for excuse for abandoning GBG?
Please recruit more people to your guild in case you want to win something there.
 

Nashtah

Member
Well besides that guild is weak in fighting they are also weak in communication and team leading. Are you looking for excuse for abandoning GBG?
Please recruit more people to your guild in case you want to win something there.
NO the problem is grouping 80 person guilds with 14 person guilds in a diamond round when there are 7+ rounds of diamond. It would be a ton more more enjoyable in the GBG if the guild had around the same number of players. There is no way for that small guild to win unless the 80 person guilds don't play. Asking every player in the small guild to be attacking 2 to 5 times more than the members in the large guilds is unreal.

As these smaller guilds are making it to diamond have the communication and leadership to win if they were not selected to loss. Grouping them by the number of player in guilds or by the number of points would help tons. Also you have to ask why we are fighting in the same groups. Two rounds ago the same three small guild were in a round with 2 of 75-80 member guilds.
WE all three lost and then won a round of platinum and now back in the same group already selected to loss again.

There are over 60 guild in diamond that are under 40 members and the other 60 + are over 40 member in world F. Dividing the two groups would let it be a ton more fun for everyone.
 

Sharmon the Impaler

Active Member
Grouping them by the number of player in guilds or by the number of points would help tons. Also you have to ask why we are fighting in the same groups.
WE all three lost and then won a round of platinum and now back in the same group already selected to loss again.
I know traders that have hundreds of millions of points but that don't fight. Maybe they should be exempted ?
There are many small very strong fighting guilds that don't want a large number of players and keep their guilds at 25- 30 players. Another exemption ?

Just don't advance to diamond and your problem will be solved.
 

Nashtah

Member
I know traders that have hundreds of millions of points but that don't fight. Maybe they should be exempted ?
There are many small very strong fighting guilds that don't want a large number of players and keep their guilds at 25- 30 players. Another exemption ?

Just don't advance to diamond and your problem will be solved.
Oddly enough, Platinum does seem to have groupings selected by guild size. In the last round where my guild the 35 as in a grouping of 35-60 and the 14 claimed to be grouping of all guild under 40 members when I asked one of the members. So yes my problem with the grouping is that FOE seems to have the coding for selection of GBG by guild size but doesn't use it in diamond, only using that code in lower levels.
 
Just don't advance to diamond and your problem will be solved.
Several people have made similar statements. I don’t personally have an issue remaining in diamond, but this kind of advice for those that do struggle, doesn’t make sense to me. Can somebody please explain what this looks like in practice? Because it seems quite circular:

If you are limited in fights and negotiations on diamond, stay in platinum. To stay in platinum, you need to finish 5th or worse. To finish 5th or worse you need to severely throttle back and not be competitive. To throttle back, would be to limit your fights and negotiations. All of this to return the next session to platinum to do it all over again so that they don’t go to diamond.

Any system that would have guilds or players intentionally not trying, i.e. not building and rushing buildings or doing negotiations, is not a good system for the players or Inno Games.

It would be a ton more more enjoyable in the GBG if the guild had around the same number of players.
While I agree that too many scrub guilds are getting put onto maps with dominant guilds, I can understand Inno Games being hesitant to strictly use guild size. That could cause a shift in the game dynamics as the ideal guild size for all of the farmers changes. There will always be a handful of guilds at the very top of size and strength. Those second tier guilds will adjust and split to find the size class in which they can be top dog and dominate. There will be guilds that can do this at 70+ members, 50-70, 30-50, 15-30, 5-15, under 5, etc. In the end, you’ve really just moved the problem around so that different guilds can be the dominant ones for each tier and enjoy the bountiful crops, but haven’t addressed any of the fundamental issues of GBG. Until they figure out how to make it truly competitive versus farming, every solution is just playing musical chairs in terms of who benefits the most.
 

Tony 85 the Generous

Well-Known Member
I find that very funny being in a guild of 35 member can't complete in Diamond level with guilds of 80 member has nothing to do with being weak but being matched to lose. Current round has 3 75-80member guilds, 1 60 member guild , 1 35 member guild, 1 20 member guild and 1 14 member guild. So yes the three small guilds were selected to lose. With 10 diamond rounds of GBG happening right now on my world, they could be matched a ton better.
By the way we are number 1 or 2 in our match every time in platinum rounds.
What is the realtionship between the total number of players in a guild and the number of player in a guild that participcate in GBG? (ie., this is why guild size criteria doesn't not work for guild selections on a GBG map)
 

Insatiable1

Member
Here is a screenshot of our current GBG map in diamond league 1 hour after GBG opened. Before giving my thoughts, I'm going to start a hashtag called #InnoBalance:

When your 2nd grader reaches the final round in the school spelling bee and has to beat an English professor #InnoBalance

When the state championship football game is a local varsity team vs the KC Chiefs #InnoBalance

When you're in the final round of an interview and your last task is to defend a PhD Thesis #InnoBalance

When your niece/nephew asks you to help them study their multiplication tables so you hit 'em with a little calculus instead #InnoBalance

Come on now, let's either make an apex league or make diamond the apex league and only allow the top 7-8 guilds in. If you're one of the bottom 2 GBG guilds for a season, you're out for the next season and the top 2 Plat guilds move in. This isn't hard, there are a ton of games with apex ranking systems that you can copy.
Match-ups within a league should be based on Guild size and guild activity in GBG for the prior season. I think the BEST way to fix the unevenness of GBG, is to fill the flags by encounters/percentages, the same way GE works. Large and small guilds can be on the same maps then, and the playing field would be much more fair.
 

Insatiable1

Member
GBG match-ups should be based by guild league, guild size, and guild activity. Honestly, I think the easiest way to fix the unbalanced atmosphere in GBG is to have flags work like GE does. The larger the guild, the more encounters you need, the smaller the guild, the less you need. It would definitely keep the bully guilds from railroading all the others, and would likely put a stop to the pinwheel swaps.
 

Ebeondi Asi

Well-Known Member
Number of fights in a GBG season combined for entire Guild .. might be a criteria? this takes into account all above: how many how strong, how active. no need to count those things just how many fights/negotiations the collective Guild did, say averaged over the last three seasons s the primary way Guilds are matched
(this would also up the desire to swap sectors more, and take the outer ring. as the new basis would be to max out as many fights as possible. or, conversely to stay in Platinum. skip the outer ring, and swap sectors less. it would change the dynamics a bit. since winning GbG would not be the main criteria for next season selection rather how many total fights were done by the Guild in GbG that season)
The winning the prizes in GbG would stay the same,, moving up to new higher level or down to lower level stil las now, just the selection within the GbG level for next season would be by total fights quantity.
This would change the yo-yo a bit, as the mismatches would be fewer.
THe old poblems of the strongest Guilds hoarding would still happen. I promise you no matter what is selected, some Guiilds will dominate and other will be crushed.
 
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Kranyar the Mysterious

Well-Known Member
All of this talk of matching guilds based on size, activity, etc. won't fix the problem, It'll only fix the problem for certain groups and create new problems for others.

Right now Diamond league is simply too top heavy, and the other leagues similarily.

I still think that the best way to fix GBG is to make it so that only the top two teams stay in Diamond league (with 1st gaining 25% of league spread of points up to max points, second losing 25% of league spread of points though that makes it possible that second will drop to Platinum league instead of staying in Diamond), everyone else gets dropped down one full league amount of points into Platinum league (so if they were at the maxed out in Diamond they would be at a comparable point in Platinum, maybe 1 point short of max Platinum points maybe 25% below, and if they were in the middle of Diamond points they would drop to middle of Platinum points, etc).

Similar thing with Platinum... Top team gains points towards moving up 25% of league spread of points, second gets zero points, third loses 25% of league spread of points, and the rest get bumped down one full league amount of points into Gold. Rinse and repeat for Silver and Gold leagues. That makes it so that it takes two wins in a league to advance to the next league from the middle of the league's point spread, no way to advance upwards without winning a battlefield.
 

Ebeondi Asi

Well-Known Member
Kranyar's idea would increase the yo-yo effect a lot. I personally think the yo-yo effect is a big problem. and the moving up should be slowed down to like need to win a few in a row to move up.. particularly from platinum to Diamond. and only the bottom-mostGbG Guild in Diamond be dropped down to platinum.
I think GbG would be better served with more in-between levels. another level between Platinum and Diamond. If that worked out perhaps a level over Diamond. But cannot have to many levels or the base becomes too few in each level.
 
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Kranyar the Mysterious

Well-Known Member
Ya, thinking on it maybe my idea is a bit extreme on the kicking down. Maybe there need to be more zeros to just keep people where they are in lower guilds, but only once the guilds get re-shifted. I still think that Diamond (and Platinum too) is way too top heavy with guilds that don't belong there. Progression upwards certainly needs to be slowed down.
 

Ace-

New Member
Kranyar,

Your idea on moving up / down (or some variation) should be considered by Inno. Our guild enjoys playing GBG, but we don’t have the participation and focus of some other guilds.

We are in diamond but we often come in a very distant fourth or fifth. We are frequently unable to break out of the edge provinces and are clearly no match for the stronger guilds we face. We can’t participate at their level but would like to have the opportunity to at least play.

But fourth or fifth still keeps us in diamond where we face the same thing week after week.

We have considered intentionally losing in order to drop down a league, but that would be a short term solution at best and goes against our efforts to encourage more active participation.
 

Nigel Tufnel 11

New Member
Youd think with all the talent the developers of this game posses that they ought to be able to do something about the consistent mismatching that makes participating in GBG very frustrating and a turn off for many players. The game is so awesome in so many ways but where they fail, and fail big time is in the matching of opponents in GBG.
 

Ebeondi Asi

Well-Known Member
I have to say the past fewSeasons have become more interesting with the change in who gets placed with whom... A lot more need to work with more than just one other Guild.
And with it I think the guilds that have permanent enemies will gradually fail vs the Guilds who are managing to reconcile with advisaries
 
What I've seen in a couple diamond guilds that I've been a member of is a lot of the top players in the guilds aren't participating because they're now focused on GB levels to boost their player ranking. I was #58 in the last guild and finishing #18 or so in GbG. Participation is the difference in a lot of these battlegrounds. I'd like to see Inno kick members out of their guild for not participating. That's right, automatic removal by Inno. Only way back in is to reapply.